? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

[Coach Captures]

Does anybody know if pro or all pro is the default sliders for the attributes? Also, how much of a % does each level differ from the other. Example: does going from all pro to all madden change the the cpu performance by X%?

Also, curious to why 0-100 on the sliders doesn’t reflect 0-100 in actual. A lot of the slider guys will set human run block to 0 on all pro and it’s still to easy. Nothing they can do because 0 is as low as you can go. You’d think zero means no one would block. This would make it much easier for the gamers to set up their desired game. I can’t wrap my head around why this is so difficult to convey year after year.

Thanks for any input.

[kennylc321]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

To be totally honest, no one knows the answers to this... I doubt even EA know. Sliders don't always work how they are supposed. Ie, one year, the WR catching slider simply made the QB more accurate. Another year, lowering the tackling slider just made your OL block better. This year, I've gone from one extreme to the other with pass defense and cannot tell you which one makes defenders cover better.

And I am seeing this from Pro to All level.

[Coach Captures]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

I kinda know there isn’t a default game mode for the weighted attributes. Example: all pro, look at any interaction of a DE vs a TE in run blocking. Most DEs block shedding and strength will trump the TEs run block and strength. However the TE will maintain leverage and hold the blocks on every mode except all madden. I’ve done similar testing with all positions on the line but used this interaction as the example. This leads me to believe that the actual weighted attributes live somewhere in between all pro and all madden.

Problem: run blocking set at zero on all pro still lends itself to equal attributes favoring the offense. Does this mean that the actual weighted attributes are somewhere in all madden? If so, why have 3 of 4 game modes not equaling stated attributes or have the ability to match. Again, why can’t this be simplified to assist in modifying the game to achieve something desired by the user?

[Dagan]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

It's definitely staring into the void to try and figure it out. I'm a lifelong player on just "pro." Seriously. Last year was the first time after many years here that I decided to share and talk up slider sets, and keeping it short, I started seeing plays, animations, interactions, etc. that I had never seen before, all just because I either set a slider to 100 or anywhere from 6 to 0 on the other end. Quickly referencing anyone else's slider sets reveals that each level is drastically different when they explain seeing the same things, finally.

I've used this analogy before, but it's about as infuriating as using a ten band EQ pedal to make your guitar sound just right, each time you swap out pick ups.

[Coach Captures]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

I’m also guessing the “player speed threshold” is the first thing that needs to be calibrated with each game mode. If that ratio is off then building off that will make everything else spiral. This affects over all speed but it also affects acceleration which is crucial to dialing in run blocking when guards pull.

[Coach Captures]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

Also, I’m researching the formulas to assist in my quest. Example: run blocking. Disengagement is weighted 75% weight and strength and 25% attribute. Once I find the correct formula I’ll be able to equally match variables in the equation to find what settings match attributes.

[Playmakers]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

To be totally honest, no one knows the answers to this... I doubt even EA know. Sliders don't always work how they are supposed. Ie, one year, the WR catching slider simply made the QB more accurate. Another year, lowering the tackling slider just made your OL block better. This year, I've gone from one extreme to the other with pass defense and cannot tell you which one makes defenders cover better.

And I am seeing this from Pro to All level.

Yep

It's been my beliefe for years that I doubt EA knows what sliders function properly anymore in their game.

It's just old code over top of old code from researching their past responses.

On all levels running the ball is too easy despite me putting run block at 0

But honestly the CPU is running the ball better this year so I don't want EA to nerf the running game

[Hooe]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

Does anybody know if pro or all pro is the default sliders for the attributes?

A number of different EA Sports developers over the course of the past decade-plus have told players repeatedly that Madden NFL is tuned to All Pro difficulty and Simulation game style as the default combination of settings.

[Brooke2011]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

It’s hard to say because it’s prob in increments of 25 one increment for each level . The question is does it look like this

Rookie: human 100 cpu 50 or human 75 cpu 25
Pro. Human 50 cpu 50
All pro. Human 50 cpu 75.
All madden. Human 50 cpu 100 or human 25 cpu 75

That would be my guess. It would be gray to have a def answer , because then you could actually adjust sliders to the value your deficient in .

[Coach Captures]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

After studying some data and graphs from MUTLINKS I’m starting to understand all the factors that go into the dice roll. To simplify there’s so many factors that go into the dice roll now with all the added abilities that it makes slider manipulation less powerful than it used to be. The sliders can affect the attributes but not nessecerily the thresholds based on how much they differ from position/function. It’s really the thresh holds that drive the animations more than the attributes themselves. Then when you add in all the modifiers from abilities it is enhanced.

Example: one thresh hold could be from 76-85 then the next could be from 86-90. The attribute rating probaly gets adjusted by the slider but it’s the thresh holds that determine the animations. So it’s volume based by how many players will obtain a higher threshold hold based on how much the slider is moved.

Blah, blah, blah I know, lol

[Coach Captures]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

I can now see why some sliders are created without abilities. It makes the formula much more simple and lets the slider have a bigger impact. This can be done by eliminating the abilities or in franchise mode lessening the amount of allowed X factors and super stars.

[khaliib]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

I can now see why some sliders are created without abilities. It makes the formula much more simple and lets the slider have a bigger impact. This can be done by eliminating the abilities or in franchise mode lessening the amount of allowed X factors and super stars.

Couple things...

1) Just about 100% gamers across the board will acknowledge and accept that Gameplay Sliders haven't been touched/tuned/improved upon since their inception.

With this though (which is why Clint stopped trying to explain gameplay components & how they actually work, to gamers), there's this resounding resistance by many gamers to understand & accept that when you change a single Slider variable, you then transition from EA's Default Slider setups, to the "Custom" setting.

This is why the wacky slider-rabbit hole is never ending.

Because as the game code has grown through out the years, the old Custom Slider setting Gameplay Formulas & their triggering Thresholds don't mesh with today's newer coded gameplay formulas/thresholds.

- this is why all the Dev's tunings is done to their Default Gameplay settings and why the gameplay goes into haywire when there's an transition over to the Custom setup.

- the Thresholds you see in MutLinks only works as defined when they're applied within EA's Default setting setups only, not Custom.
(no one from EA has taken the time to bring the Custom setting in-line with today's formula/thresholds)


This basically sums up how Madden is built/designed....
1) Animations -> triggered by
2) Win-Chance/Die-Roll outputs of Formulas -> -/+ adjusted by any
3) Modifiers


Circling this back to the OP, Difficulty settings apply their impacts at #2 or #3.



***Concerning Abilities, I think many missed the fact that M24 has shifted Abilities from guaranteed applied impacts no matter the Ratings Delta, to an -/+ Modifier within the "Chance Formula"

- turning off the Abilities in M24 (per say), WILL NOT have the same gameplay impacts as previous because their functionality is totally different now (esp in Franchise Mode)

Ex:
Although an SS Ability is said to remain active throughout the game, an players Fatigue level can push that particular Threshold below the min needed for active triggering (although they're still designated has having an SS Ability), rendering it not active.

I've since come to accept that it's an waste of time trying to find out the exacts as it relates to Madden's under-the-hood gameplay, mainly due to the increase usage of Stability/Balancing fixes, that can consist of an plethora of unknown changes to #1, #2 or #3 above being applied.

[Coach Captures]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

Couple things...

1) Just about 100% gamers across the board will acknowledge and accept that Gameplay Sliders haven't been touched/tuned/improved upon since their inception.

With this though (which is why Clint stopped trying to explain gameplay components & how they actually work, to gamers), there's this resounding resistance by many gamers to understand & accept that when you change a single Slider variable, you then transition from EA's Default Slider setups, to the "Custom" setting.

This is why the wacky slider-rabbit hole is never ending.

Because as the game code has grown through out the years, the old Custom Slider setting Gameplay Formulas & their triggering Thresholds don't mesh with today's newer coded gameplay formulas/thresholds.

- this is why all the Dev's tunings is done to their Default Gameplay settings and why the gameplay goes into haywire when there's an transition over to the Custom setup.

- the Thresholds you see in MutLinks only works as defined when they're applied within EA's Default setting setups only, not Custom.
(no one from EA has taken the time to bring the Custom setting in-line with today's formula/thresholds)


This basically sums up how Madden is built/designed....
1) Animations -> triggered by
2) Win-Chance/Die-Roll outputs of Formulas -> -/+ adjusted by any
3) Modifiers


Circling this back to the OP, Difficulty settings apply their impacts at #2 or #3.



***Concerning Abilities, I think many missed the fact that M24 has shifted Abilities from guaranteed applied impacts no matter the Ratings Delta, to an -/+ Modifier within the "Chance Formula"

- turning off the Abilities in M24 (per say), WILL NOT have the same gameplay impacts as previous because their functionality is totally different now (esp in Franchise Mode)

Ex:
Although an SS Ability is said to remain active throughout the game, an players Fatigue level can push that particular Threshold below the min needed for active triggering (although they're still designated has having an SS Ability), rendering it not active.

I've since come to accept that it's an waste of time trying to find out the exacts as it relates to Madden's under-the-hood gameplay, mainly due to the increase usage of Stability/Balancing fixes, that can consist of an plethora of unknown changes to #1, #2 or #3 above being applied.

Nice input and thanks. Yah, game play patches are accessed during the year based on averages. Who’s to say the averages were based on 21 personnel against base 34 or 21 personnel vs Dime package. Or dollar always seems to be a default.

Also game play is centered around MUT and how 90 OVR players interact. It’s much different than trying to achieve consistency of random OVR through a franchise.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

It’s hard to say because it’s prob in increments of 25 one increment for each level . The question is does it look like this

Rookie: human 100 cpu 50 or human 75 cpu 25
Pro. Human 50 cpu 50
All pro. Human 50 cpu 75.
All madden. Human 50 cpu 100 or human 25 cpu 75

That would be my guess. It would be gray to have a def answer , because then you could actually adjust sliders to the value your deficient in .

I seem to recall the lowest number being 50 and the highest being 125.. but I think that went all the way back to M10 or 11.

[Dagan]

Re: ? Regarding weighted value of game modes (rookie, pro, all pro, all madden)

I think perhaps I can simplify the two camps when it comes to sliders, tunings, etc.

A - the group that delves into all of the dev's tweets or messages about what they are or aren't, what's default, what the weights and algorithms are, etc. etc. etc. takes pride in knowing and understanding it all, so on and so on.

B - the group that is seriously just wondering why dev's consider anything besides 0 the default, and why can't it simply just begin at 0 and end at 99/100 because surely, across the board, across the entire planet Earth, everyone and their mama would have a simple, understanding that surely 0 is the baseline default (where anyone would begin with)???