Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

The only option i see..is lowering stamina of OL to cause them to get slow/weak faster..by default it will cause their ratings to lower as the play more..


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[Playmakers]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

I'm working on edited classic rosters and unfortunately fellas there's absolutely no way around this issue and trust me I've tried everything.....

I've moved dl to offensive lineman and I've reduced player size.......

The only other thing that seems to help a little is lower agility of OL so that if they do get beat with a lower agilty rating they can't magically warp back into the block

I also started working with the penalty trait making a few guys on each team have undisciplined trait hoping it will effect their production

But with the inability to alter those ratings again i will stress that every OL is basically being programmed to play the same.

It's still an excellent fun game....that i will continue to try and enjoy but it seems like EA has never truly taken the OL seriously in terms of difference in behavior

This is the only aspect of gameplay that you can't tweak to get player seperation.....

We can change the way QB, RB, WR perform on the field via ratings but OL is obsolete

The Cowboys OL should react way different from the Browns but you could swap units in madden and the only thing that changes is the overall rating but it has no impact on actual gameplay unlesd you sim the reults.

[mpd3892]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Couldn't agree with you more on this.

As for changing the penalty rating, I tried this. I didn't see a large difference in either how the OL played or on the number of penalties called. If anything, there may have been a few more FS.


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[Fist Of Kings]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Myself and others have tried just about everything possible, all with no improvement.

Size doesn't matter: you can edit the OL so they are 5'7"/150lbs. They still stop DTs that are 7'/400lbs.

Attributes don't matter: you can edit the OL so their PBK is 0 and they still stop DTs. You can give DTs max value for their attributes and they still cannot bull rush or move back interior OL.

About the only thing that worked was DEs with speed getting around Ts. Make whatever changes you can think of (which has been pretty much done) and unless you blitz (and even then) the QB will have a pocket frequently allowing him to stand in there for far too long.

I'm a firm believer that the heart of football is in the trenches and for us to have a "near" lifelike experience, the OL/DL interaction has to be far better.

Total immersion killers, shame that isn't fixed as advertised. There used to be a youtuber that would sub in kicker and put him as a lineman, and he would have success blocking when he shouldn't at all. That can make you put the game down for good.

And this guy usex to do this in madden/ncaa 10 I believe. No matter what I do, I can't get madden 17 to play realistically.

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Also think large problem with this is..if I remember correctly the OL and DL are tied together...until they are independent of each other and each position is independent of itself no matter what ratings we are given nothing will change


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[mpd3892]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Also think large problem with this is..if I remember correctly the OL and DL are tied together...until they are independent of each other and each position is independent of itself no matter what ratings we are given nothing will change


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What do you mean by "tied together"?


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[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

What do you mean by "tied together"?


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Again if I remember correctly..One of the Dev's stated that OL and DL are "coded" together so they work together..that is why there is issues if u QB spy then rush that player..the OL "knows" the defensive player is "suppose" not rush..which would allow a free rusher..also believe that is why we don't have the ability to run "games" with DL..and no tiered play calling on D..OL is coded to know who is rushing and from where..I don't have the quote and if this isn't the case anymore someone plz correct


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[Playmakers]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Someone who is a game changer needs to point this out to EA.

How can release a Nfl game where ratings don't really matter between the OL vs DL

we spend months trying to figure out sliders and at the end of the this aspect of gameplay is basically irrelevant if your expecting a difference between Offensive lines.

That's like creating a NBA game where every big man plays like prime shaq and there is no shawn Bradley's in the middle

[fistofrage]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Total immersion killers, shame that isn't fixed as advertised. There used to be a youtuber that would sub in kicker and put him as a lineman, and he would have success blocking when he shouldn't at all. That can make you put the game down for good.

And this guy usex to do this in madden/ncaa 10 I believe. No matter what I do, I can't get madden 17 to play realistically.

Yep put your kicker and punter at the tackles and your smallest WR at center and you will see no appreciable difference. In fact putting the WR at center may actually be better on running plays because he can get downfield faster on certain plays and open up the second level.

Additionally kicking traits don't really matter as kicking is automatic now.

QB accuracy is through the roof.

As much as EA tries to tell us things have changed, everything gets patched out so all that matters is raw speed.

[fistofrage]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Someone who is a game changer needs to point this out to EA.

How can release a Nfl game where ratings don't really matter between the OL vs DL

we spend months trying to figure out sliders and at the end of the this aspect of gameplay is basically irrelevant if your expecting a difference between Offensive lines.

That's like creating a NBA game where every big man plays like prime shaq and there is no shawn Bradley's in the middle

If ratings mattered, they would patch it out and nerf it anyway. In the end you will end up with the same game no matter what.

[fsu32]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

what about ZEROING out speed, agility, and acc. for OL ?

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

what about ZEROING out speed, agility, and acc. for OL ?

As far as I can tell with Speed and Acc..it really doesn't matter either..which includes DL..I have tested DL as I always like "speed rushers" off the edge..maxing out Acc and speed to be able to beat a Tackle to the edge does not work..each DL has the "same" first steps no matter the ratings same for OL..each OL more specifically offensive Tackles, have the same "kick slide"..speed doesn't factor into the equation till offensive player is in open field..even chasing down the QB is not fully controlled by Acc or speed but more pursuit rating..


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[mpd3892]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Haven't tried it, but not sure it would help. Just theorizing, but since the OL are lined up directly in front of the DL, the problem remains. On the snap the DTs basically crash into the interior OL. About the only way I've seen a DT beat an interior OL is when they employ some type of finesse move (swim/spin). I even tried maxing these and taking away Bull Rush trait. If the DT initially goes for the finesse move, he has a small chance of success. If the OL get in front of the DT its basically a lock down block.

The only area where I've seen speed/acc/agi really work is on the outside with DE vs T. Speed can really make a difference (not so much any other attribute).

I really believe that we have hit a wall here and until those hidden ratings are unlocked we can't move forward. Watch any "real" football game. So much of what happens depends on what goes on in the trenches. Folks complain about QB ACC being too high. Sure you can adjust the sliders to force errant throws. Watch a game on Sunday. When QBs have time they're all pretty darn accurate (anyone see Rodgers pick apart NYG when they couldn't put pressure on hime?). What about Dalton's accuracy when he couldn't get time because DAL's D was able to get consistent pressure.

The same goes for the run game. It all comes down to the battle between OL/DL. The problem here is mostly with interior OL and DTs. Although the entire line play is off.

Hopefully EA will fix it, not likely as the online $ players won't want it, or by some miracle someone will come along and think of a fix we haven't thought of yet.

As for me, I'm moving on from Madden 17, but will continue to follow in the hope that a fix does come...

[Devildog Frank]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Well I gave something a try in my CFM Offline. I control all 32 teams. I use Charter 4's sliders (2nd set), and I i use Rovert's Rosters. I played the Bengals Jets game. Before the game, I went and reduced every OLinemans Agility by 30 pts. The game ended with 4 total sacks, 16 QB Pressures, 7 QB Knockdowns, and 3 deflected passes by DLinemen. Thats a combined total of 30 plays out of 64 total pass plays. Im not sure if my reducing O Linemen Agility had anything to do with it, but im just reporting what I charted. I will play my next game with no altering of Agility attributes, and chart that.

[fistofrage]

Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

As far as I can tell with Speed and Acc..it really doesn't matter either..which includes DL..I have tested DL as I always like "speed rushers" off the edge..maxing out Acc and speed to be able to beat a Tackle to the edge does not work..each DL has the "same" first steps no matter the ratings same for OL..each OL more specifically offensive Tackles, have the same "kick slide"..speed doesn't factor into the equation till offensive player is in open field..even chasing down the QB is not fully controlled by Acc or speed but more pursuit rating..


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Basically most teams seem the same to me. Are any of you seeing a dominant defensive lineman or are they all the same?

Sure doesn't seem like you have to do any game planning when facing someone like JJ Watt. Don't have to double team or roll away from him, etc. Just put your kicker in to block him and away you go.

What attributes besides straight line speed, catching, and break tackle to a little extent really matter on offense?

What matters on defense? Speed, coverage, and tackle to a small extent?

How was Tecmo able to capture this? You knew when you were up against Reggie White or if Barry Sanders had the ball.