Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

[D16NJD16]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

I still dont know what stops people from renting first, and then decided whether or not it's worth a buy. Surely the last 3-4 years of Madden has been enough t warrent that sort of playing it safe.

[Old Mr T]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

No CPU sliders is very poor.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

When the CURRENT dev team made decisions to "fix" broken elements of this game by 1) turning OFF fatigue to balance online no-huddle, rather than making OFFENSIVE fatigue higher (thereby punishing the cheesers by having the offense make errors such as false starts, errant passes, etc) and 2) "fixing" the QB throwing beyond the LOS (which should be a penalty, plain and simple) by having it so the DB doesn't leave the reciever wide open.

Frankly those are the things that concern me more than the lack of a DLC patch for '09. And there's a host of so many other things to add - QB animations that haven't been fixed four years in. The misdirected attention to the OL/DL play and interaction. The complete lack of WR/DB interaction. Stiffarms which seem predicated on which player "wins the button battle" and laughably results in smaller offensive players slamming larger defensive players WWE-style. Etc., etc... There's just so much that can be said that a DLC patch wasn't going to fix. Really the blame lies with Tiburon. There was a conscious decision made to remove cpu sliders - that hurts worse than a bug causing the cpu sliders not to work. The lack of additional camera angles, or things like accelerated clock - in Madden's fourth next gen iteration...? And still Madden is looked as being *that* close to greatness (and Tiburon devs that think it's already great lol) because it's not "as disappointing". It would've been nice if Tiburon threw a bone to it's fans and released the DLC, but people shouldn't fool themselves into thinking it would've fixed most of the game's problems. Unfortunately I think a lot of people have lowered their expectations beyond low for Tiburon's football titles.

Next year it'll be interesting to see if the same people complaining are the ones most excited and willing to hop on the hype train soon as it kicks off. While it should be the hardcore demanding a quality football title it will likely be the so-called casuals that actually force change.

[Garrett67]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

There was a point in the recent past where one of those two guys mentioned that the DLC was coming soon, or it was near completion. So obviously they were working on it.

What happened? Could they not figure out how to implement it? It didn't work? The game kept freezing on them?

I will most likely sell my CE version on Ebay. I haven't even taken Head Coach out of the case and haven't played Madden in a month because I was WAITING for the DLC.

[SkinsBoYee]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Anyone else feel duped or cheated? No new camera's for 4 years?...oh, we are working on it. Its in the DLC. Oh, but there is a chance its not..but there is a chance there is.

No competition means one company can put whatever they want out... THERE IS NO COMPETITION. Its funny...football, I am sure if we took a pole, would be the clear favorite sport of the majority here. I am just basing this off the popularity of the game as a whole compared to the other big 3 sports. Yet, in the video game sports world, It is only the football game (Madden) that seems to not be ascending to the heights of the other 3 big sports games in terms of quality on the next gen.

Basketball - Two great games this year.
Hockey - Two great games this year
Baseball - I digress to MVP 05 on the PC as the king, but you have The Show and 2k...I am sure quality that people like.
Soccer - Fifa taking huge steps it looks like, and that other game that Evo Pro.

All in all...consumers have a choice, and it seems like the COMPETITION of a competing company is driving the makers of any of the games for video sporting game...DRIVE HARDER TO PRODUCE THE BEST POSSIBLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET TO INCREASE THEIR MARKET SHARE.

I wonder if the producers of Madden have that sort of drive pushing them? Oh ya, they don't...cause there is no competition. Till this ridiculous exclusive rights agreement is broken, we the consumers of video football games are just going to get a half arsed product. Time to wake up to that realization.

[steelersfan7]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Well so much for the CPU sliders and some other things that could be addressed.
I just said heck with the sliders all together and went to the IQ/myskill thing. No messing with sliders and I'm getting great games. Just takes a while for everything to even out. Also using the IQ I haven't seen ROBO QB much at all. The game feels and plays so much different using the IQ thing then with custom sliders. I hope they don't trash it next year.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

There are some serious reamings going on here. I'm seeing some guys here who--just from me searching a bit--l see have been the staunchest most fiery supporters of Madden over many years, now exploding. Shocking stuff.

I rented Madden 09 this year after the tragedy that was Madden 08 (one of the worst football games of all time in my view). I liked Madden 09 after that rental, and I still do. But there is no way I can deny that this game is way behind and with a lot of sloppy mistakes. But a lot of the things are just a result of making bad design decisions, not giving the user more say-so over their experience, and having what appears to be an internal confusion as to whether this game should be presented as an non-serious presentation of football (not even the casuals want that!), or a TV Football broadcast (which is what it should've been from day one with Madden 06). When you begin to run down all of the broadcast elements missing from a game that was touted as "beyond broadcast presentation" you can't help but laugh a bit. You almost want them to make a public apology for that slogan, lol. The disparity between that slogan and the reality that played out in Madden 09, would be akin to your friend telling you he has a HOT girl for you to meet, you show up, and then he introduces you to Rosie O'Donnell...

Still, I acknowledge the improvements in the game. I honestly didn't expect much more than what Madden 09 is after playing Madden 08. I do expect Madden 2010 to be that pivotal game, even though the thought of that is a little ridiculous going now 5 seasons in. But, this is where we are. Sad, but this is where we are.

Testing/Quality Control is obviously a problem with this product, and after reading through posts here, watching Youtube videos, and also personally agreeing, it would be wise for the devs to just acknowledge the definite problem and take some extreme measures to rectify it. Denying the testing/quality control issues isn't helping the product.

By now, I'm sure they've all had the opportunity to identify which guys in these communities have the most insight on what's wrong with the game. It's time to start making some private invitations to get some of those guys into the testing and concept development process, and I'm sure most if not all would do it for free. Public Beta demos would be the smartest way to go, but for streamlining purposes selecting a smaller group might be more effective.

Now, let me talk about why I wonder about their overall knowledge of pro football as a whole which I think is a problem. I'm not talking X's and O's. I'm talking about basic, natural occurences, and history. Little things reveal issues as much as big things. There are extreme things like how players can make plays that defy the laws of physics on a regular basis, and then there are small things like during the loading screen where NFL Facts that any NFL fan would know are wrong. I laughed when one fact said that the Steelers won Super Bowl 30, but we all know they were beaten by the Cowboys 27-17, and there are a few more that just make you shake your head and laugh. You know 10-year old little Billy wouldn't notice, but gamers have grown up. A lot of the 25 yo+ crowd is still playing and they will notice things like that.

Then there are the obvious mistakes with the Hall of Fame players. In '07 they did a decent job, but since then they've been totally screwed up. When you don't get Joe Montana right, a GOAT QB, it's time to just stop even making HOF players. It's disgraceful to have Joe Montana in the game and then give him the wrong equipment... And what makes it worse is that you can't edit the HOFer's. And you know what? He was screwed up in '08 too, so obviously the guys working on this have no clue as to what Joe Montana wore and what he looked like among other players. Guys, it's time to hit the books, grab some NFL Films and study up hard on the history of the NFL. When you start from there and digest this into your thinking, you will almost certainly be looking at Madden in a whole new way. I promise that doing this exercise will make the game better just by it having an influence on your approach.

... I think the problem isn't just programming, it's also mindset and philosophy. The core philosophy of Madden is not serious football, and that issue carries over to how the game is presented, too.

There are guys in communities like these that could help them eliminate a lot of these problems. It just comes down to whether they're going to use them or not. Wishlists aren't enough. The inolvement has to be direct. If not, we'll be right back here year after year, talking about the same problems.

[Garrett67]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Anyone else feel duped or cheated? No new camera's for 4 years?...oh, we are working on it. Its in the DLC. Oh, but there is a chance its not..but there is a chance there is.

No competition means one company can put whatever they want out... THERE IS NO COMPETITION. Its funny...football, I am sure if we took a pole, would be the clear favorite sport of the majority here. I am just basing this off the popularity of the game as a whole compared to the other big 3 sports. Yet, in the video game sports world, It is only the football game (Madden) that seems to not be ascending to the heights of the other 3 big sports games in terms of quality on the next gen.

.

Oh, we took a pole alright!

[TheWatcher]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

^^^^^^^ Hilarious!

[MJenness]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

There are some serious reamings going on here. I'm seeing some guys here who--just from me searching a bit--l see have been the staunchest most fiery supporters of Madden over many years, now exploding. Shocking stuff.

I rented Madden 09 this year after the tragedy that was Madden 08 (one of the worst football games of all time in my view). I liked Madden 09 after that rental, and I still do. But there is no way I can deny that this game is way behind and with a lot of sloppy mistakes. But a lot of the things are just a result of making bad design decisions, not giving the user more say-so over their experience, and having what appears to be an internal confusion as to whether this game should be presented as an non-serious presentation of football (not even the casuals want that!), or a TV Football broadcast (which is what it should've been from day one with Madden 06). When you begin to run down all of the broadcast elements missing from a game that was touted as "beyond broadcast presentation" you can't help but laugh a bit. You almost want them to make a public apology for that slogan, lol. The disparity between that slogan and the reality that played out in Madden 09, would be akin to your friend telling you he has a HOT girl for you to meet, you show up, and then he introduces you to Rosie O'Donnell...

Still, I acknowledge the improvements in the game. I honestly didn't expect much more than what Madden 09 is after playing Madden 08. I do expect Madden 2010 to be that pivotal game, even though the thought of that is a little ridiculous going now 5 seasons in. But, this is where we are. Sad, but this is where we are.

Testing/Quality Control is obviously a problem with this product, and after reading through posts here, watching Youtube videos, and also personally agreeing, it would be wise for the devs to just acknowledge the definite problem and take some extreme measures to rectify it. Denying the testing/quality control issues isn't helping the product.

By now, I'm sure they've all had the opportunity to identify which guys in these communities have the most insight on what's wrong with the game. It's time to start making some private invitations to get some of those guys into the testing and concept development process, and I'm sure most if not all would do it for free. Public Beta demos would be the smartest way to go, but for streamlining purposes selecting a smaller group might be more effective.

Now, let me talk about why I wonder about their overall knowledge of pro football as a whole which I think is a problem. I'm not talking X's and O's. I'm talking about basic, natural occurences, and history. Little things reveal issues as much as big things. There are extreme things like how players can make plays that defy the laws of physics on a regular basis, and then there are small things like during the loading screen where NFL Facts that any NFL fan would know are wrong. I laughed when one fact said that the Steelers won Super Bowl 30, but we all know they were beaten by the Cowboys 27-17, and there are a few more that just make you shake your head and laugh. You know 10-year old little Billy wouldn't notice, but gamers have grown up. A lot of the 25 yo+ crowd is still playing and they will notice things like that.

Then there are the obvious mistakes with the Hall of Fame players. In '07 they did a decent job, but since then they've been totally screwed up. When you don't get Joe Montana right, a GOAT QB, it's time to just stop even making HOF players. It's disgraceful to have Joe Montana in the game and then give him the wrong equipment... And what makes it worse is that you can't edit the HOFer's. And you know what? He was screwed up in '08 too, so obviously the guys working on this have no clue as to what Joe Montana wore and what he looked like among other players. Guys, it's time to hit the books, grab some NFL Films and study up hard on the history of the NFL. When you start from there and digest this into your thinking, you will almost certainly be looking at Madden in a whole new way. I promise that doing this exercise will make the game better just by it having an influence on your approach.

... I think the problem isn't just programming, it's also mindset and philosophy. The core philosophy of Madden is not serious football, and that issue carries over to how the game is presented, too.

There are guys in communities like these that could help them eliminate a lot of these problems. It just comes down to whether they're going to use them or not. Wishlists aren't enough. The inolvement has to be direct. If not, we'll be right back here year after year, talking about the same problems.

I think the problem is these devs are too young to even KNOW who these all-time greats are. They may have seen them in some old films, but probably could care less. They're more into T.O. and Pacman....they think THESE are the greatest players of all time.....what a joke.

[tigers2314]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Well so much for the CPU sliders and some other things that could be addressed.
I just said heck with the sliders all together and went to the IQ/myskill thing. No messing with sliders and I'm getting great games. Just takes a while for everything to even out. Also using the IQ I haven't seen ROBO QB much at all. The game feels and plays so much different using the IQ thing then with custom sliders. I hope they don't trash it next year.

How tough is running the ball with IQ?

[NYBorn81]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

*Sigh*



Honestly, I personally don't believe that EA cares about what their fans say year after year, all we want is a representation of REAL NFL Football...instead we get some arcadey(?) P.O.S. That seems that its more suited for children, and I think that's exactly what it is, The target for EA is to put out a game that a child can just pick up and play, now I'm only 19 years old, but this game is more suited for my little 8 year old cousin, he's LOVES this game...


So EA doesn't care about us "Hardcore Sim Gamers", they just care about the almighty dollar, because they KNOW year after year the product will be bought by millions, after its hyped up and all the "new" features have been talked about......



Now, I applaud them for finally coming out with this disappointing, and saying their pretty much going to get started on 2010 early after the disappointment that is madden 09....


Well as far as this game goes, its going back to gamestop, and will be traded in for Saints Row 2 and Madden on the PS2....

[John Deadly]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

I think that Madden IQ was the worst addition to the series since that idiotic vision cone nonsense. Whoever ok'd the idea to remove sliders from the game should be slapped fired then slapped again.

[jfsolo]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

First of all every developer that visits these boards should never even hint at the possibility of patches, DLC, or the like. They should know by now that despite most here being adults in terms of age, an adolescent mindset of incessant overreacting prevails(Sorry if I offend anyone, but its true.)

They should keep their mouth shut until things are 100% percent certain, i.e. actually released for use by the public. Better to be railed upon for their silence and perceived apathy, then be accused of underhanded stall tactics.

Although I'm aware of this boards tendency for losing perspective, I'm still somewhat shocked that people here didn't make what I consider to be the logical assumption that there was very little chance of the DLC actually coming out.

Regardless of how flawed the game was, expecting two patches and DLC was pretty optimistic. Especially knowing that we're dealing with a corporate entity that is on a totally different wavelength then us here.

A lot of you might as well get in your mind that you're not going to get Madden 2010 right now and safe yourself some anguish later.

You want to be blown away by the gameplay, A.I., presentation, Franchise mode, and online play. All in one year. I hope no one brings up any nonsense about company X doing so in (insert year here) because its not true. Other great games were build off of the foundation of their previous games.

With this series there are simply too many things that need a major overhaul, and we know there isn't enough time to get it all done in one cycle. You might try and argue otherwise, but given their development methodology we know it isn't going to happen.

So a choice has got to be made. I'm going to choose gameplay, A.I. and Franchise, and selfishly I hope the developers feel the same way.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

This sucks. The dlc was the only thing that was going to get me back into this game.