The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

[countryboy]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

Good stuff!

• When WRs, RBs & TEs are running routes, they shouldn't look for the ball until after the last break in their route. So if the ball is thrown early, he doesn't react. Even if a user takes control, the user shouldn't have time to recover and get to the ball.
  Also, even when the ball is not thrown to them, route runners should look back at the QB after that last break in their route.
• When blocking, linemen, TEs & RBs should look for defenders and shouldn't attempt to block defenders they can't see. Linemen without an immediate threat should always be looking for someone to block, and should go help someone after a second or 2.
• A ball carrier should be aware of potential tacklers.
• A QB should not only go through his progressions, but he should(or shouldn't) be aware of pressure. If someone is coming from the backside and the QB doesn't turn his head to see, he shouldn't react.
• DBs, LBs & d-linemen(zone blitz) should be looking for WRs in their zone & at the QB.

I hop each player's PA with be ratings based.

I know you all feel most users want immediate control, so consider giving the swat button dual actions like you to for stiff arm/switch hands. The swat button could trigger a swat if the DB is aware of the ball, but would trigger a "look for ball animation" when he's not yet aware of the ball. And the same for pick attempts.

Intensity, disappointment, elation, pain, determination, surprised...

Before/during most actions... tackle attempts, swat/pick attempts, catch attempts, jukes/spins/stiff arms/breaking tackles, persuit... basically every action should have an attitude attached.

I love the idea thats bolded.

BezO, you and I don't always agree on things, but once again man, damn good insight.

[dawgs18]

Sounds good so far.

It would be nice to have animations match up with game score. Example, I don't think players would be celebrating they made a tackle while being blown out. Or the whole offense celebrating after a first down while losing 30-0 in 4th qrtr.

Keep it coming!

[RogueHominid]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

Really cool stuff! From reading the description, I did wonder, though, if the PA would actually create a necessary delay between switching targets and acting on them or if it would just mean that instead of leaping miraculously without the head turn the DB would now leap miraculously as he's turning his head. I know the post mentioned delay as a possibility, but I'm still wondering just how it is going to be interpreted.

Ideally, there would be a built-in reaction time that would force players to gather and redirect before acting on a new target.

I could see a really cool implementation of this tech used in the rendering of zone coverages. Good zone defenders are masters at locating the immediate and imminent targets in their zones and reacting promptly. Guys who aren't so good either don't see targets sometimes or move from them before they've cleared their area of responsibility. PA could help distinguish these different kinds of defenders. And it could help create a signature style for CBs who are "peekers"--the guys that look back to the QB to read the drop and either make a big play or get turned around.

This is a wonderful effort! Thanks so much for the time and care.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

Ideally, there would be a built-in reaction time that would force players to gather and redirect before acting on a new target.

This has been one of my major pet peeves in EA football games and is the reason why user INTs are so easy to come by for anyone with decent stick skills.

I think EA wants to leave 100% of the game control in the user's hands and it basically leaves us in godmode while the CPU is left with piddly amounts of AI to combat our movements.

There should never be an instance where I can switch to a defender in coverage with their back turned to a play and instantly initiate a catch animation.

Hopefully using procedural awareness will allow defenders to have to make eye contact with the ball before going for the ball in catch animations AND will turn catch animations into swat animations if the ball is in the air and the defender has not found the ball with their eyes. This would not only result in far less cheap interceptions, but would make WR/CB interaction more complete.

I'll also be interested in seeing whether the Awareness rating finally has a specific use instead of being the all-knowing rating.

[jyoung]

This is a cool feature but will it be just for show or actually affect the gameplay?

For instance:

if a DB is running with his back to the ball will he still be able to magically spin around and intercept it as if he was tracking the ball with eyes in the back of his head from the moment the pass left the QB's hand?

or

will the DB turn around only when he sees the WR starting to track the ball, then still have try to "find" the ball for himself before he can make a play on it?

Every football game I've ever played falls prey to the first scenario, and it's a major part of why the passing game feels cheap on higher difficulties.

[Boilerbuzz]

Believe me, I'm not trying to sound like a *****, but I'm just a little skeptical about a couple of things:

1. With this statement/question:
"- Where else would you like to see PA active?
- Are there any new attitudes would you like to see?
- Do you have any suggestions on the best area you think we should actually use the attitudes that we’ve created?"

Is Ian asking us to do their job? With so many "great football minds", shouldn't they have a list that pretty much covers all the bases?

2. This is head and eye tracking. This isn't new technology. When I hear procedural awareness, I think of the punchline that is NBA Live.

3. Why should THIS change the way the game is played? You could have NOT made the super-human DBs long before this.

With that said, I'm glad they are still trying to take qualities of 2K and put them in the game. But the MOST important facets I want to see them put in Madden before anything else - 2K blocking. Double-teams, real pockets, etc... Then I'll consider coming back.

[countryboy]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

Believe me, I'm not trying to sound like a *****, but I'm just a little miffed about a couple of things:

1. With this statement: "- Where else would you like to see PA active?
- Are there any new attitudes would you like to see?
- Do you have any suggestions on the best area you think we should actually use the attitudes that we’ve created?" Is Ian asking us to do their job? With so many "great football minds", shouldn't they have a list that pretty much covers all the bases?

2. This is head and eye tracking. This isn't new technology. When I hear procedural awareness, I think of the punchline that is NBA.

3. Why does THIS change the way the game is play? You could have NOT made the super-human DB long before this.

With that said, I'm glad they are still trying to take qualities of 2K and put them in the game. But the MOST important facets I want to see them put in Madden before anything else - 2K blocking. Double-teams, real pockets, etc... Then I'll consider coming back

No, he's asking for community feedback. Its funny, prior to EA coming here, people complained that they werent' listening to our ideas. Now they're here listening to our ideas, and people are now stating the EA is asking us to do their job for them.

As far as the other things you'd like to see, this is the first annoucement of many more to come. The game is 6 1/2 months away from dropping. Its like people think this is the only new thing going into Madden and they vent frustration or provide what they'd like to see in its place.

Its Feburary and they've mentioned that they'll continually give us new info/features as the weeks pass by. Lets just take it one feature at a time and wait until its time to vent about the lack of a feature, when its time.

[cedwebb]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

2. QB Awareness- First let me say the qb head tracking looks great in the small video shown. Now lets talk about qb 'performance' based on head tracking. The main thing that needs to happen here is that if Mcnabb is looking at Curtis on a fly down the left side of the field and the user decides to dump it off to Westbrook in the right flats..once the user presses the button to throw to Westbrook, Mcnabb should have to TURN HIS HEAD TO FIND WESTBROOK IN THE RIGHT FLATS, TURN HIS SHOULDERS AND ATTEMPT TO STEP AND THROW WITH PROPER FOOTWORK!! this is HUGE in my opinion and something that madden is lacking and would make the passing experience great. Now to get a little deeper, if the qb is feeling pressure and has good awareness, then the qb should 'rush' the pass (ie, not step and throw) which would result in side arms, throwing off back foot, throws without stepping to receiver; which should create loose spirals, over/under throws, and a dramatic reduction in accuracy(of coarse depending on qb ability)

I know this is a long read but I PROMISE if these things are included in Madden 2010 us TRUE football Sim fans will be satisfied.

This is exactly how I was thinking...I mean exactly! If the your QB is looking at the reciever you want to throw to he can get rid of it normally..but if he isn't and you hit another receivers button that is not in his line of sight he should have to LOOK, RESET, AND THEN THROW which takes more time. Love that idea!

I really hope all players on the field and refs are able to use this feature as it will change the gameplay 100% IMO. If this is implemented the way I envision it is quite possible that we never see the same outcome to a play twice. Players reacting to what they see will revolutionize this game. This may seem like a small addition but if utilized in every aspect it will literally change the way this game plays.

I really hope that this is now what makes the AWR attribute acutally mean something. Players reacting based on that attribute is huge if that is what they get done with this feature. Vets will have much more importance on a team as they may be slower but quicker to react because of their AWR level.

[Vikes1]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

Is Ian asking us to do their job? With so many "great football minds", shouldn't they have a list that pretty much covers all the bases?

I don't think so Boilerbuzz.

They may very well have a pretty good idea of how and where they'll add this PA tech. But in the spirit of interaction....nothing wrong with gathering ideas from the community. 10,000 heads are better than 12.

If their now willing to take advantage of the many great ideas from our community, I see that as nothing but a positive in my opinion.

[kevster2]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

I don't think so Boilerbuzz.

They may very well have a pretty good idea of how and where they'll add this PA tech. But in the spirit of interaction....nothing wrong with gathering ideas from the community. 10,000 heads are better than 12.

If their now willing to take advantage of the many great ideas from our community, I see that as nothing but a positive in my opinion.

I agree with you 100% Vikes1.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

I agree with you 100% Vikes1.

I agree too Vikes1. It's just when I first read that, it FELT initially like it was more of a call for ideas. Maybe I felt he could have said more to stimulate the discussion. I was just asking. Being wary.

[Vikes1]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

I agree too Vikes1. It's just when I first read that, it FELT initially like it was more of a call for ideas. Maybe I felt he could have said more to stimulate the discussion. I was just asking. Being wary.

Nothing wrong with asking, or putting something out there in a civil way for discussion Boiler.[which I think you did.]

[TheCreep]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

Ok, here we go. As far as facial features during the actual play, in my opinion its no big deal. I can see this implemented post play while the players are going back to the huddle or directly after a play is over when the camera is actually focused on the key player(big catch, big run, big hit), oh and after penalties.

I'm guessing you guys are going to tweak your camera angles to properly show this off, keeping the camera in the midst of the action instead of the random panning around the stadium correct? This would also work well for sideline closeups with the players and coaches:wink:

[SteelerSpartan]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

Sorry to ask but I didn't get to the thread because of some celebrating



But Did Ian ever answer whether there will be new AI to go along with the PA,???? so that we don't just have Heads flipping around as they're gliding sideways to bat down a ball?????

[indycolts4289]

Re: The First Official Feature For Madden NFL 10!

First of all, the second response to Ian's update (by DTown) sounds GREAT. If Madden can pull off all of this, it would be insane. 3/4 of it would still be very good. Procedural Awareness will really take Madden to the Next Gen level.

Anyway, my suggestion/request for the next Madden is to bring back a few things from the previous editions. I usually play with the Colts and I love to emulate the things they do, especially what Manning does at the line. The first thing is to bring back the formation shifts. (I believe I saw this last in Madden 06 for Xbox) It would allow you to start with say a 2 TE set and then send one or both of those TEs out into a 3 or 4 WR set while keeping the play the same. There were usually 4 options to change to from each set (by pressing a button and then using the D-pad) and this gave a lot more flexibility and creativity to the offense.

The second thing is the substitutions menu. While this is in 09, this menu is in the play selection screen and therefore, with the play clock, you have a limited amount of time to make your personnel changes. So if you don't know exaclty what you're doing before you go into this menu (especially on defense) you have almost zero time to make up your mind.

Third, I would love to see the playbook creator brought back. I can't remember the last time it was in Madden (probably 06 as the last feature) but if you just put that version of it in, I would be very happy. Of course I would also love major improvements as it was never the greatest.

Whenever you created a new formation you wouldn't be able to shift the DL or LBs or bring up your safeties to support the run or use your corners to press. This could be fixed with generic solutions or by allowing the creator to designate those as well. The same problems were also on offense (no players going in motion).

Things that worked well with this feature were that you had almost no limit to where you lined up players on both sides of the ball. Obviously on offense you still had to follow the line of scrimmage rules (only 7 on the line) but other than that it was free reign. You could even draw out your own pass patterns.

Is there a playbook creator in NFL Head Coach? I have never played this game but I assume there is one. Ian introduced some of his new staff and one (or two) is from this game. Is there anyway you can just plug that same feature into Madden with a few tweaks?

One last thing: The play by play and color commentary are AWFUL. Apart from the fact that there aren't nearly as many different sound clips as in previous games, Madden makes Cris Collinsworth sound like a moron. While I don't object to using the same people, there needs to be more variety. Personally I would love to have Mike Tirico from ESPN doing the play by play as he is very good and interesting to listen to.

That's all I got.