Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

I have a question about defensive schemes and ratings. I dont know if its too late to implement something like this but i think it would be awesome and add a whole new dimension to playing and franchise mode with the new rating system. My thinking is that with certain players, they should fit towards a scheme. I will use the steelers as an example. Their 2 olb's are perfect for a 3-4 scheme. But if you put those OLBs in at olb in a 4-3 scheme in real life there "ratings" would not be as good and they obviously would not play olb as good in a 4-3 defense. So would there be anyway to make players ratings change if they changed a system? Like if james harrison is rated 95 at olb, if a team whos defensive scheme is a 4-3 signed him for an olb, his rating would drop to like an 80 or something?
I know i rambled but i hope i got my point across. I would love some feedback on this.

Like I kjnow in ncaa there are 2 categories of linebacker, run stopper and coverage, in madden could there be like a 3-4 linebacker and a 4-3 linebacker category.

I think this is the wrong way to go about fixing this problem. You shouldn't change a player's ratings based on the system. James harrison is the same player regardless of which system he is playing in. He has the same set of skills no matter what. The difference has to be in what skills are needed to make a great linebacker within the system. this is why the overall rating is kinda pointless in my opinion. The real solution to making these players better within their system is making the actual ratings matter like they should, height and weight play in to some positions being different in different systems. Also, with this whole lowering ratings this should help as long as they make the players weak in the areas that will make them weak in those other systems

[xblake16x]

I dont understand how this wont greatly motivate people to keep choosing the faster players?

and if the progression system is fixed this time around there should be room to find late round draft steals...TOM BRADY...anyone? For the previous-gen consoles, the progression system was nearly perfect, if players performed and continued to perform, they would continue to increase in ability. Why dont we see that on the 360 or ps3?

[kensaku]

I am excited! Thanks for the hard work. But I wonder how the defensive player will react when fast players are running by or near them. But I am truly excited for 10!

[burnwood]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

I think there is a HUGE fallacy in numerical ratings to begin with. If the goal is better gameplay then scrapping numerical ratings, adding specific abilities (maybe shortcomings as well), and putting in realistic fatigue will change the game.

[Xipie]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

Although this is my first post.. I have been reading the topics for months now..
Have started playing madden since '94 and obviously am hyped for '10 due to the new approach of communicating..

Now the rating change can be good if it's good implemented but I have faith in that because you guys still have a lot of time..

Ok let's say I'm a franchise playing kinda guy so madden needs to have a good franchise mode to keep me hooked..

-What always disturbed me was how the real 1st year rookies got rated vs. the automated madden draft classes.. maybe with the new ratings the drafted
player can make a bigger influence on teams..But please have a better minimum rating for players(I don't mean the overall).. There was so much wrong with certain drafted players that you couldn't use them at all..For instance a RG with strenght 78 heck some RB's have more strenght..

-Injuries.. As you could see on the weekly roster updates there where a ton of players on IR.. injuries are a major influence in sports although it sucks to have your star QB on IR it is realistic.. I think many sim style players would love to have more injuries in the game as is in the NFL

-More injuries and usefull drafted players... -> Depht.. Make using depth more important..we all know we have situational kind of players.. If your plan is to rate players to their strenght and weaknesses give me tools to work with that.. formational subs more strategies.. but not only in-game.. I want to set those things up in the franchise screen (like it was in various PS2 versions)

-Now this basicly means you will have more playing time for other players.. so my next point is progression.. progression is huge factor for me.. I think a potential rating would be good.. but it shouldn't be the most important factor..
I loved the PS2 progression system.. pre-season, week 5 etc..
An idea could be rating,potential,individual performance,team performance(meaning playing time)
Potential for the off-season rating changes.. individual performances during the season as well with team performance..
So let's say I sign Ray Lewis to the Jets.. My whole D should benefit from this... Just look at the updated roster ratings.. Jim Leonard a 85 rated overall SS.. would he have the same rating at the Bengals? no he wouldn't so he is rated that high because they have a great unit..and it helps him
Same story imo with FS Ryan Clark from the Steelers.
If you catch my drift..

Well that's it for the moment just my 2 cents and it's great to discuss these things in february

[Avii]

I would like a feat system implemented.

Like a WR with a "Sideline catch" feat will more likely keep his toes in when stretching to catch it on the sideline. Not all the guys who can catch the ball when its thrown to them (massive catch ratings) can do this.
"Catch in DT" feat, "Shake-n-Bake" feat, "Bulldozer" feat, "brick Wall" feat etc, when added to players can create much more realistic player variations than ratings alone can convey.

[shttymcgee]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

Have the speed differentials been adjusted? IE wr's being twice as fast as dl? Is the speed rating a % one or are the differentials not linear?

[The Sim God]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

i wonder if a receiver like Plaxico will dominate a smaller "good" cb like Al Harris?

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

I think there is a HUGE fallacy in numerical ratings to begin with. If the goal is better gameplay then scrapping numerical ratings, adding specific abilities (maybe shortcomings as well), and putting in realistic fatigue will change the game.

No matter what garbage they choose to show you in game menus, there will ALWAYS be numbers that define a player's performance in video games. These are computers we're talking about people.

Will people please stop asking for numeric ratings to end.

I've even seen people foolishly ask for a "star" rating system in place of the 1-100 scale. What makes someone think that a 5 point scale will be more accurate than a 100 point scale? Do you really think there are only 100 variations of speed between all football players, let alone 5?

Just stop the rating system bashing.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

I would like a feat system implemented.

Like a WR with a "Sideline catch" feat will more likely keep his toes in when stretching to catch it on the sideline. Not all the guys who can catch the ball when its thrown to them (massive catch ratings) can do this.
"Catch in DT" feat, "Shake-n-Bake" feat, "Bulldozer" feat, "brick Wall" feat etc, when added to players can create much more realistic player variations than ratings alone can convey.

Why do they need to add gimmicky and corny labels to achieve this? All we're talking about here is triggering a different animation package for different skill sets, so the game already has the data to figure this out.

If my WR has above 90 JMP and SPC and exceeds a certain height, then he should have access to all of the tall player jump ball spectacular catch animations.

My 5'9" WR with 70 JMP and SPC shouldn't be able to use that same animation package.

[bgizle]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

Calvin Johnson should be fun at least.

You are talking about an 0-16 team, first of it's kind. I believe the expectation (and rightfully so IMO) from most people who care to dabble in this kind of thing, I think that expectation for the Lions in Madden 10 the video game is for them to be the very worst of all 32 teams in the league. I'm talking clear-cut, 32 of 32.

And on paper, aside from Megatron as mention above, the Lions will be pretty bad. Kevin Smith will get a nice bump, he shows signs which is OK, but then you have first round pick Gosder Cherilus....he had a Joe Average year, so he's not much to build around. Ernie Sims is the one nice thing on defense, not much else to get excited about. Name the Lions Corners. See what I mean...

Your turn, now you tell me. If you had two average, evenly matched All-Pro Mode players playing against each other....And they went heads up Steelers vs Lions....each getting to be the Steelers 5 times...what would you EXPECT/WANT the Madden 10 results to be?

Would you want a 50/50 (5-5) Detroit/Pittsburgh split? A 10-0 Steelers sweep?

I have a very strong opinion on this one (as you may or may not tell from this post). Would love to hear where everyone stands on this!

I think, personally, that any given team can beat any other. One of the best things about NFL, you never know whats going to happen. No one had Atlanta or Miami winning 11 games this year.

[bgizle]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

We are very much taking all the ratings into consideration. I have not done this to one single rating or one single position (blanket, across the board lowering of ratings). So while I do go in and have the intent to lower a particular rating, for a particular position...I do so by hand, for each guy and each rating.

Painful yes, but it really needs that level of attention IMO. Every single NFL player is unique and has his own set of strengths and weaknesses. You can't just go in and say Minus 10 for every player. Doesn't work like that - if you want to do it right of course!

Dev Henderson is a great example...He is super fast (95+) but his CTH and ROUTES are completely average to below average. He might be able to get deep every once in awhile, but this guy is going to falter if you try and make him your #1 and give him 10+ targets a game. He is simply not going to perform with 55 rated hands and 50 rated routes (not sure off top of my head what Devery is, but that is close).

Roy Williams the Safety is another great example...He has Linebacker quality run stopping abilities....Block Shedding, Tackle, Hit Power..But his Pass Coverage skills are very poor in Man Coverage and Zone Coverage.

That is the one thing I ALWAYS look for when creating a player for the first time, creating their ratings. I want to know, what is this guy best at and what is he worst at.

I definitely agree that Henderson's Route Running needs some work, but I don't think he has the worst hands in the league or anything. He is the Saints 'big play' receiver, because of the speed and agility.

Devery Henderson -2008
Targeted: 57
Catches: 32
Drops: 2

The top of my head, when it comes to WR's, I think straight to Terrell Owens, who is usually the perennial leader on Dropped passes. But since he's such a physical specimen, he's a beast.

[shttymcgee]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

[quote=youALREADYknow;2039174442] Do you really think there are only 100 variations of speed between all football players, let alone 5?

quote]

There's about 15 different speed variations in the nfl 4.2 to 5.7. The hundredths place in the 40 yd dash is basically insignificant. For speed, the numbers aren't the problem, the problem is that there is too much of a differential between slower players and faster ones. Wide receivers don't cover20 yds in the same time it takes a dt to cover 10, but this is what is happening in the game when the dt speed rating is 45 and the wr's rating is 90

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

For speed, the numbers aren't the problem, the problem is that there is too much of a differential between slower players and faster ones. Wide receivers don't cover20 yds in the same time it takes a dt to cover 10, but this is what is happening in the game when the dt speed rating is 45 and the wr's rating is 90

I agree, but that is because of the way ratings are converted into game speed (the speed curve). It is not due to the scale of the ratings. Also, variations in speed aren't determined by 40 times. The 40yd dash is mostly acceleration and a few yards of true top speed. You would need to take a split segment of the 100yd dash, for example, to get some better measurement of speed and then you would see huge gaps between elite and average speed.

In an actual football game, players rarely reach their top speed and the in-game speed is mostly agility, acceleration, lateral quickness, and quick decision making. In my opinion, the speed rating is used far too often in EA football games to determine player movement. The idea that a HB's "speed" matters in the backfield like it does in this game is simply absurd to me.

Ray Lewis can gain ground on Chris Johnson in the backfield or between the tackles or on a sweep play, but he's not going to catch him in the open field in a foot race from behind.

[burnwood]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

No matter what garbage they choose to show you in game menus, there will ALWAYS be numbers that define a player's performance in video games. These are computers we're talking about people.

Will people please stop asking for numeric ratings to end.

I've even seen people foolishly ask for a "star" rating system in place of the 1-100 scale. What makes someone think that a 5 point scale will be more accurate than a 100 point scale? Do you really think there are only 100 variations of speed between all football players, let alone 5?

Just stop the rating system bashing.

No, thank you, I will not stop asking for the end of numerical ratings. There are very valid points to bring up. Nice try in an attempt to shut me up.

The point that I'm trying to highlight in the imperfections of assigning a numerical OVR value to player is what really separates the 99 players across positions? A 99 QB, WR, LB, RB. Is it speed, catching, throwing? I just think it would be better to highlight that specific player's abilities and throw in their weakness as well. I know behind the scenes numbers are in play. We are dealing with 0's and 1's.