All Ratings Talk Here Per Millennium

[AlexBrady]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

None of that crap.

What separates Brady, and most "great" NFL QB's is accuracy. A great throw trumps a bad read, the reverse is not true. The number one thing that separates "great" QBs from good or mediocre ones is how often they throw inaccurate passes. Tom Brady is RARELY inaccurate.

Currently, Brady is extremely accurate. During his title runs he would often throw late over the middle which resulted in many wayward passes and interceptions. Since then, he has cleaned that habit up. He also instills a certain confidence in his receivers as he is notorious for not hanging them out to dry (many qbs do hang out their receivers).

The thing with Brady's accuracy is that he struggles sometimes throwing accurate passes in the 15-25 yard portions of the field. Furthermore, he is wildly inaccurate when forced out of the pocket or forced left (the same holds true for Peyton) so I cannot grade his accuracy up there with Montana.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

Yeah and Moss is also part of the worst offense in NFL history. Oh yeah you are right Brady has been riding that defense to Super Bowls like back in 2001 when it was ranked 28th over all. Or the same one that gave up 29 points to the Panthers in the Super Bowl. What about that same defense that squandered a 20 point lead against the Colts in AFC Championship game? The same defense that choked in the Super Bowl vs the Giants too. Geez how could be so silly, I could have won 2 super bowls with my defense performing like that.

Why is Brady famous? Why is he so highly rated? For those 4th quarter drives. But go back and watch the tape. He does not win those playoff games. The KICKER DOES. When Tom needs a touchdown HE CAN'T DO IT. We saw that against the Giants in 2007 and against the Colts in 2006. Get up by more than 3 and Brady is the choke MASTER.

I like how all the scoring your defense and special teams did was great when it was happening, but now you're in denial. Do you even remember how many games that defense won by TAKING THE BALL AWAY and scoring themselves? All Tom had to do was NOT throw interceptions. Which he does well. Tom takes very good care of the football, because he is a SYSTEM QUARTERBACK.

I mean come on! A HIGH SCHOOL QB CAME OFF THE BENCH AND RIPPED OFF MULTIPLE 400 YARD GAMES IN THAT OFFENSE!

Since all that Brady does is chuck it to Moss why is it that Brady completed 300 other attempts to other receivers not named Moss? You tell me. Your comparisons to Palmer, Delhome and Penington are laughable at best. Please do expand on your points I want to know why they mesure up to Brady.

Contrary to popular belief, football is not just about statistics. There is a human element to the game. If you're a defense, Randy Moss must be accounted for on EVERY PLAY. This means that his mere PRESENCE opens up the rest of the field to the other receivers.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

Currently, Brady is extremely accurate. During his title runs he would often throw late over the middle which resulted in many wayward passes and interceptions. Since then, he has cleaned that habit up. He also instills a certain confidence in his receivers as he is notorious for not hanging them out to dry (many qbs do hang out their receivers).

The thing with Brady's accuracy is that he struggles sometimes throwing accurate passes in the 15-25 yard portions of the field. Furthermore, he is wildly inaccurate when forced out of the pocket or forced left (the same holds true for Peyton) so I cannot grade his accuracy up there with Montana.

Both Manning and Brady are deadly from the pocket, and rarely hold the ball too long. Out of the pocket though, both are a liability.

Good analysis here. +1

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

The QB class is considered weak but so was last years class going into the draft. These guys ratings are considerably lower than those from last year.

Actually, Matt Ryan I believe received the 2nd highest grade from Mel Kiper of like any QB in recent memory.

[RGiles36]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

@ people making Brady out to be a "system QB". You can read it all on OS.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

Both Manning and Brady are deadly from the pocket, and rarely hold the ball too long. Out of the pocket though, both are a liability.

Good analysis here. +1

Interesting how you stated Pennington, Palmer, and Delhomme are better than Manning and Brady. Mind elaborating?

[AlexBrady]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

@ people making Brady out to be a "system QB". You can read it all on OS.

I've been watching football a long time and this phrase has all of a sudden "caught on" the past 5 years. Most people don't even understand what it means. Like I always say though function supercedes talent.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

Interesting how you stated Pennington, Palmer, and Delhomme are better than Manning and Brady. Mind elaborating?

I didn't say they were better than him, just that he isn't much better than them. They are all accurate touch passers, and system type guys with the exception of Rivers. They all play basically the same check-down type of style with very little reliance on athletic ability or arm strength, even though Palmer has a pretty big arm.

I've been watching football a long time and this phrase has all of a sudden "caught on" the past 5 years. Most people don't even understand what it means. Like I always say though function supercedes talent.

Your bolded point hits the nail on the head. QB in the NFL is rarely about arm strength or 40 time. It's usually about how well the system fits the player, the player fits the rest of the personnel, and how well the coaches utilize their talent.

[Obelysk]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

Why is Brady famous? Why is he so highly rated? For those 4th quarter drives. But go back and watch the tape. He does not win those playoff games. The KICKER DOES. When Tom needs a touchdown HE CAN'T DO IT. We saw that against the Giants in 2007 and against the Colts in 2006. Get up by more than 3 and Brady is the choke MASTER.

I am sorry but you are the one that needs to go back and watch the film again. In the Giants Super Bowl Brady drove down the field and scored a TD to givve us the lead with over 2 minutes left in the game. What did the Giants do? They drove down the field and scored a TD and only left us with 35 seconds to score a TD. Yeah because we all know that 35 seconds is an eternity to go drive down the field again and score another TD with that pedestrian unit that the Giants call a defense. Also its Brady's fault that the defense cughed up over 30 points in the second half againts the Colts in the Championship game too right? Heck he scored 34 points with bug eyes Cadwell and Gaffney as his 2 top WRs that game. Brady scored 21 on the Eagles and the only reason why we need a late field goal to win was because Viniteri had actually missed a field goal early in the game.Check again, ever since Brady has been our starter in the post season we score 24.70 points a game. Our offense has not be an issue .

I like how all the scoring your defense and special teams did was great when it was happening, but now you're in denial. Do you even remember how many games that defense won by TAKING THE BALL AWAY and scoring themselves? All Tom had to do was NOT throw interceptions. Which he does well. Tom takes very good care of the football, because he is a SYSTEM QUARTERBACK.

That is true, but we had lost games where the defense has chocked in the playoffs. Ironically enough the games that we should have lost because Brady performed bad we have actually won (like the Chargers in 2006).

I mean come on! A HIGH SCHOOL QB CAME OFF THE BENCH AND RIPPED OFF MULTIPLE 400 YARD GAMES IN THAT OFFENSE!

He was sitting in our offense for 4 YEARS! 4, is not like we picked him off the streets. Besides he inherited a team that broke the offensive scoring record in the NFL. The team that was 35 seconds away from being perfect and consodered the "greates team of all time." The team Cassel played for was not the 2008 Lions and last I checked we didn't even make the post season.

Contrary to popular belief, football is not just about statistics. There is a human element to the game. If you're a defense, Randy Moss must be accounted for on EVERY PLAY. This means that his mere PRESENCE opens up the rest of the field to the other receivers.

Which is something he never had in his whole career and his still won 3 super bowls. Truth is Brady does not need Moss, he never did. Moss was clearly an improvement to our team but never a necessity.

[SouthernBrick]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

The ratings aren't set in stone are they? They will go up and down depending on how they play through out the season. So i'm not really worried about it. If they were set in stone and they wern't changing then I would have a problem with brady being that high coming off a season ending injury.

Just take a deep breath and chill.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

I didn't say they were better than him, just that he isn't much better than them. They are all accurate touch passers, and system type guys with the exception of Rivers. They all play basically the same check-down type of style with very little reliance on athletic ability or arm strength, even though Palmer has a pretty big arm.




Your bolded point hits the nail on the head. QB in the NFL is rarely about arm strength or 40 time. It's usually about how well the system fits the player, the player fits the rest of the personnel, and how well the coaches utilize their talent.

You said : "He's good. But not better than Brees or Pennington or Rivers or Delhome or Palmer or Warner. Just has more help." You actually did say that those qbs were better than Brady so I'm a bit confused. Not sure I would say Delhomme and Palmer are touch passers. I agree on Pennington and Warner though. I am impressed with Rivers as well (does anyone push the ball downfield better than him?)

You seem to highly value athletic ability in a quarterback. Were you one of those "Vick guys" when he was at his peak? Personally, I could care less if my qb has an ounce of athletic ability because elite status as an NFL qb is reached by dropping back, planting your back foot and accurately delivering the ball to the correct receiver. Athletic ability is a highly overrated attribute when talking about the qb position.

Of course my bolded point hits the nail on the head.

[bang911]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

No...I was referring to people getting upset that people are debating ratings...if you are one of those people, then yes I was.

No need to get defensive if people are debating things...it's all good natured. And I'm not lookin to start trouble either. No one is attacking anyone, so no need to get defensive is all.

It is not a debate when OP's start threads with words like this, "You guys screwed up big time with Hall 77 and Brady 98"

[shotgun styles]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

I am sorry but you are the one that needs to go back and watch the film again. In the Giants Super Bowl Brady drove down the field and scored a TD to givve us the lead with over 2 minutes left in the game. What did the Giants do? They drove down the field and scored a TD and only left us with 35 seconds to score a TD. Yeah because we all know that 35 seconds is an eternity to go drive down the field again and score another TD with that pedestrian unit that the Giants call a defense. Also its Brady's fault that the defense cughed up over 30 points in the second half againts the Colts in the Championship game too right? Heck he scored 34 points with bug eyes Cadwell and Gaffney as his 2 top WRs that game. Brady scored 21 on the Eagles and the only reason why we need a late field goal to win was because Viniteri had actually missed a field goal early in the game.Check again, ever since Brady has been our starter in the post season we score 24.70 points a game. Our offense has not be an issue .

35 seconds is plenty of time to score a TD. Ask Joe Montana.

As for Viniatari, he has gone on to win ANOTHER Superbowl with the Colts. Since his departure Brady has not won the Superbowl.

That is true, but we had lost games where the defense has chocked in the playoffs. Ironically enough the games that we should have lost because Brady performed bad we have actually won (like the Chargers in 2006).

You're just dogging your defense to make Tom look good. They were an outstanding unit during those SB runs, and slammed the door on some very good teams.

He was sitting in our offense for 4 YEARS! 4, is not like we picked him off the streets. Besides he inherited a team that broke the offensive scoring record in the NFL. The team that was 35 seconds away from being perfect and consodered the "greates team of all time." The team Cassel played for was not the 2008 Lions and last I checked we didn't even make the post season.

He had very little playing time, and had not started a game since high school. And guess what, his numbers were very similar (and in stretches better) than Tom's were during that 2001 season.

Face it, dude. It's the system, not Tom. It's Bellicheck and his staff. Not Tom. Tom was just in the right place at the right time with the right butt-chin to make the 12 year old girls swoon.

Which is something he never had in his whole career and his still won 3 super bowls. Truth is Brady does not need Moss, he never did. Moss was clearly an improvement to our team but never a necessity.

He needed Moss to put up those huge numbers and go 16-0 in the regular season. He did not need Randy to win a SB. Why? Because the TEAM won those Superbowls, not Tom.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

You said : "He's good. But not better than Brees or Pennington or Rivers or Delhome or Palmer or Warner. Just has more help." You actually did say that those qbs were better than Brady so I'm a bit confused. Not sure I would say Delhomme and Palmer are touch passers. I agree on Pennington and Warner though. I am impressed with Rivers as well (does anyone push the ball downfield better than him?)

What I said was, "not better". That's like saying that Tiki Barber is not taller than Rhonde Barber when they are the same height. You are inferring that those guys are better than Tom, but factually it isn't what I said.

In truth I was not clear enough, so I'll reiterate: Tom is not much better than they are, if at all. If any of those guys played for the Pats, they would do just as well as Tom.

You seem to highly value athletic ability in a quarterback. Were you one of those "Vick guys" when he was at his peak? Personally, I could care less if my qb has an ounce of athletic ability because elite status as an NFL qb is reached by dropping back, planting your back foot and accurately delivering the ball to the correct receiver. Athletic ability is a highly overrated attribute when talking about the qb position.

Of course my bolded point hits the nail on the head.

Actually, the reverse is true. Ithink that in today's NFL athletic ability is an anachronism and a liability. System QBs are best suited to take advantage of all the rules in the NFL that are designed to handcuff defenses and increase scoring.

The NFL has taken the emphasis off of violence and force of will that football used to have. Now it's about timing and precision. It's about long passes and high scores, not grinding it out in the middle of the field. In point of fact the rules are so far out of balance in favor of offenses (QBs and WRs in particular) that it should be no surprise that so many passing records have been set the last few years.

In short, I would never draft a Tarvaris Jackson or a Vince Young. I'd take a small school prospect with a good arm and great accuracy. I'd put him in a check down offense in front of a great running back and behind an awesome offensive line. I could get him for cheap, and get 2 or 3 Superbowls out of him.

If I could get one who looked like a Teen Beat boybander like Tom, that's just more money I can make off him.

[Candyman5]

Re: Here ya go Ian...

Umm, I see all these threads about how certain players Rating are to low or to high but I have yet to see any ratings of players except the Draft players. Where are you seeing this?

Lmao, 3 pages later and no one even seen my Post...XD. Anyone?