Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

[RGiles36]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

As far as sheer numbers Pro Tak puts 2k to rest. As far as possibilities it also puts it to rest. There are possibilities for: pile ups, the real life Steve Smith run breaking out of a slew of defenders; stale mates between the ball carrier and multiple defenders. So what you have here is a piece of tech that gives you everything that 2k5 had and more. Now the issue is cosmetics. What you guys are talking about is cosmetic (how it looks), but the tech itself has surpassed what 2k5 had.

Agreed 100%, well said.

[Progenitor]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

Now the issue is cosmetics. What you guys are talking about is cosmetic (how it looks), but the tech itself has surpassed what 2k5 had.

To me this is where I'm not sure I like the really slow game speed. It makes the tackling look like guys are being "careful," rather than being violent. I think if they can give it a more hectic and chaotic look when they tune the hell out of it, the technology will shine even more.

Have you mentioned this to Ian?

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

That may be where the disconnect comes in; don't know if the technology part of it matters much if it doesn't look like football. In the 2K5 movies in the OP, as stiff as the anims were everything still seems more fluid; more organic - more like a real game. I'd say the same with the Backbreaker vids, even though the technology behind that [seems to] dwarf what any sports games are doing at this point, whether it's 2K, 989, or EA. I don't think I saw more than 3-4 people involved in any of the Backbreaker vids. And even with that game's goofy player models, it still looks a lot better than anything I've seen to date with Pro-Tak (or 2K5/2K8). And I stress "to date" because we've seen very little of it so the jury's still out.

[HealyMonster]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

.

Take a look at Backbreaker, if this game plays well, EA will be forced to rebuild.

My .02

some of the people on this board.........


why would madden be forced to rebuild if backbreaker is good? They have the NFL License. They dont have to do anything. Nor will they.

[canes21]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

I think he means if Backbreaker is good and hurts the sales of Madden. Which is possible, but there are just too many little kids who are spoiled.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

As long as EA holds the exclusive license they'll never have to worry about anyone else being able to compete; any non-licensed title is automatically relegated to "niche title" status. Where they could be affected is perception though, if there's a drastic visual difference in how the games flow

[shotgun styles]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

As long as EA holds the exclusive license they'll never have to worry about anyone else being able to compete; any non-licensed title is automatically relegated to "niche title" status. Where they could be affected is perception though, if there's a drastic visual difference in how the games flow

Yes but, the video game media will offer up WITHERING criticism. EA want's to be perceived as the front runner in tech. That can't happen with a working Backbreaker on the market. EA will be forced to address the issue or face controversy.

Most of the community's complaints have not been mainstreamed. Backbreaker would make the complaints about mo-cap mainstream, and that's not something EA can tolerate. They get blasted once or twice in the media, or worse yet NFL players start to personally endorse Backbreaker, then EA will be painted into a corner.

[JMD]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

some of the people on this board.........


why would madden be forced to rebuild if backbreaker is good? They have the NFL License. They dont have to do anything. Nor will they.

Some of the people on this board, golly golly tisk tisk........

If you don't know the answer to that then........

[Pandemonium00]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="75"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="50"><tbody><tr><td width="37"></td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/07.gif); width: 1px; height: 24px; background-position: center center;" valign="middle" width="100%"> Quote:</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td align="left">
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</td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif); width: 100%; height: 1px;" width="100%"> some of the people on this board.........


why would madden be forced to rebuild if backbreaker is good? They have the NFL License. They dont have to do anything. Nor will they.
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So you're saying the only reason Madden sells is because of the NFL license? That's what I gather from that post.

[jp7588]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

I think the tech involved in Pro-Tak is far and away more advanced than anything we've seen in a football game thus far (don't say Backbreaker). The possibilities are almost endless, and it's a great foundation for building more realistic interactions in all different facets of the game.


With that being said all I've seen so far is potential. It doesn't look like it feels as organic and game-changing as 2k's system. I can't wait to see a defender hold up a guy and another defender come in and clean it up. Those moments never get old in 2k5/8. If they can replicate that with this system, and I don't see why they couldn't, then I'm in love.

As far as tackling in Madden 10 all I've seen is tackles that look like they could have been pulled off last year and the aforementioned "group hugs" that we've seen in all of the Pro-Tak demonstrations thus far. If they build on the variety then I would have no reservations in saying they've won the "tackling war".

[StonesRunIt]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

Wait a second - can "dialogue" be used as a verb?

The title was an ode to the original topic ( 'Ian Cummings-Lets Dialogue'), modified so it wouldn't get closed as an "Ian" directed thread.

[StonesRunIt]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

I think the tech involved in Pro-Tak is far and away more advanced than anything we've seen in a football game thus far (don't say Backbreaker). The possibilities are almost endless, and it's a great foundation for building more realistic interactions in all different facets of the game.


With that being said all I've seen so far is potential. It doesn't look like it feels as organic and game-changing as 2k's system. I can't wait to see a defender hold up a guy and another defender come in and clean it up. Those moments never get old in 2k5/8. If they can replicate that with this system, and I don't see why they couldn't, then I'm in love.

As far as tackling in Madden 10 all I've seen is tackles that look like they could have been pulled off last year and the aforementioned "group hugs" that we've seen in all of the Pro-Tak demonstrations thus far. If they build on the variety then I would have no reservations in saying they've won the "tackling war".

all good points.

[HealyMonster]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="75"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="50"><tbody><tr><td width="37"></td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/07.gif); width: 1px; height: 24px; background-position: center center;" valign="middle" width="100%"> Quote:</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="left"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/09.gif); width: 100%; height: 24px;" align="left" valign="middle" width="100%" nowrap="nowrap"> Originally Posted by Renegade44</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td align="right" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/11.gif); width: 100%; height: 24px;" width="100%">
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</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/04.gif); width: 37px; height: 1px;" width="37">
</td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif); width: 100%; height: 1px;" width="100%"> some of the people on this board.........


why would madden be forced to rebuild if backbreaker is good? They have the NFL License. They dont have to do anything. Nor will they.
</td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/05.gif); width: 18px; height: 1px;" width="18">
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So you're saying the only reason Madden sells is because of the NFL license? That's what I gather from that post.

dude, are you serious? Yeah the only reason Madden sells is because of the license. thats what I said. That is ridiculous that you could pull that from my post.

For slow people: My post means, regardless of how backbreaker does, Madden will not completely redo their game because of the "competition". Madden is the only NFL game, with the nfl license. Backbreaker isnt even on the same playing field therefore Madden would never alter the way they make the game because backbreaker does "good"

Oh yeah "If backbreaker is good, Madden is going to have to redo theri game completely" am I the only one that thinks that is ridiculous? I mean come on dude.

[StonesRunIt]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

Madden has no true competition, because at the end of the day most football fans are NFL fans and they have to come to Madden for their fix.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Lets Dialouge - Ian's gangtackling challenge revisited

I think the tech involved in Pro-Tak is far and away more advanced than anything we've seen in a football game thus far (don't say Backbreaker). The possibilities are almost endless, and it's a great foundation for building more realistic interactions in all different facets of the game.


With that being said all I've seen so far is potential. It doesn't look like it feels as organic and game-changing as 2k's system. I can't wait to see a defender hold up a guy and another defender come in and clean it up. Those moments never get old in 2k5/8. If they can replicate that with this system, and I don't see why they couldn't, then I'm in love.

As far as tackling in Madden 10 all I've seen is tackles that look like they could have been pulled off last year and the aforementioned "group hugs" that we've seen in all of the Pro-Tak demonstrations thus far. If they build on the variety then I would have no reservations in saying they've won the "tackling war".

Backbreaker.

Have you not seen the new vids? Pro-Tak, while innovative, is obsolete as a stand alone tackling engine before it has even been released.

I will say this though: Pro-Tak COMBINED with Natural Motion will fix the problems of both. Pro-Tak has alot of potential as AI, since it focuses on tackling angles and the like which are needed to improve Natural Motion.