Madden NFL 10: PRO-TAK - What's NOT There Yet...

[adembroski]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

THIS IS A MADDEN BOARD.

Your mom is a Madden board.

[dman1976]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Thanks for the update, seems like a lot of tuning - hopefully you don't run short on time.:

[polamalu82]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Your mom is a Madden board.

Good one!!

[FootballDetails]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Thanks for the update!

[darrenp1518]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

I think more and more videos are going to be coming out by our marketing department and from preview events...just wanted to let you guys know what's missing from the feature still that we are working on (this also is a bit of a response to apex and co. and their critiques).

The biggest missing feature is probably carrying through velocity from original animations -> PRO-TAK. You can see that on the Lendale White video...meaning that when players transition from a normal mocap tackle into PRO-TAK stuff their velocities get zeroed out (meaning they stop in place). This will definitely be addressed before we ship...our goal is that you don't even notice the transition from one to the other...it should just look like another guy added on seamlessly. This is causing a lot of the feeling of "it needs more umph"...

Second biggest is the "warping" into the PRO-TAK multi-man stuff. This hasn't been tuned really so guys are just 'suction-ing' like magnets to the ballcarrier. Also when the guys add on the goal is that they drastically effect the pile's velocity and positioning and stuff...right now they just attach and that's about it. Again when the feature is actually done you should feel a lot more 'power' when these guys hit the pile.

The "endless chopping" stuff is often turned on for demo purposes...this will really not happen in the game when it ships...you'll see a guy drive forward and they'll then get pushed to fall forward or backward (or sideways or whatever) way quicker than just standing up chopping their feet.

Lastly, we really don't have barely any animation variety in there yet. We're looking to at least add quadruple the amount of stuff to keep it fresh. We've built some new tech this year that basically swaps the animation banks for each PRO-TAK set of animations after they play (moving them to the end of the list after they do), but up until basically today we haven't had the variety to swap. That will be coming very soon as well.

So anyway, I don't want to act like I don't want feedback from you guys as you see the new stuff...all of it is valuable and please keep posting...but I also wanted to let you know what we're currently working on. We definitely aren't going to be spending our whole cycle on this tech to have it not come out looking perfect. We just have to balance the needs of marketing to show stuff early even when it's not done.

- Ian

IAN I PERSONALLY LOVED THE RUNNING BACK CHOPPING HIS FEET AND THOUGHT IT REALLY ADDED TO THE REALISM BECAUSE MOST PLAYERS EVEN SMALL BACK HARDLY GO DOWN IMMEDIATELY WHEN THEY ARE HIT...BUT I REALLY APPRECIATE THE POST MAN!!!!

[tennesseetitans]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Thanks for the update, really put to rest a lot of my concerns regarding pro tak. Hope all the updates turn out well.

[Moostache]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Great update Ian...especially glad to hear about the foot chopping as that was really distracting in the limited clips we have seen publicly. But....replying to forums on your day off? Daaaaaaaamn man! You have a dev kit and a build of the game...do some WORK son!!! (in case that comes across wrong I am totally attempting sarcasm!!)

That was a great info all the way though! By all means, if you are feeling like posting stuff on your days off, please keep going!


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As for the continued obsession with Backbreaker footage from this link:

http://www.walsh-designs.com/bfl/ps3/videos/GEDC1872.MOV

- when it says "actual gameplay footage" on the screen, isn't ANYONE the slightest bit concerned that there is NO ONE on the sidelines - no teams, no coaches, no chain gangs, no reporters, no photographers, no medical staff, no security....a great big ZERO...since I have seen Madden and NCAA savaged for their "lack of presentation" for years, I guess we can expect the "BB is so BORING and LIFELESS" threads soon?

(Now if that is not really "final" build gameplay, then is it still "actual gameplay"? I think not!)

- some of those huge hits appear to be happening on the edges and in open space, ie. - it is highly unlikely that those are linebackers making the hits, in fact they look to be CBs to me...and they appear to be doing another one of the things that people have howled about for years - totally destroying the ball carrier a la the hit stick. I freely admit that those MIGHT be LBs and I COULD be totally offbase here...but those big hits concern me more than impress...especially the propensity of the defenders to constantly leave their feet! (I especially dig the play where the two defenders jump into each other and the RB stumbles to the left for more yardage - yes, it IS a nice animation and very fluid, but good god man, if that kind of crap is happening with the AI controlled players I would be incensed playing a game that had my players acting like hyperactive kids who lost their Ridalin scripts...)

- WTF is up with the GLOWING RED ball on the pass play????? (and the kick off???) What is this, Fox Sports trying to broadcast hockey again??? I thought no one would ever out do the Madden shotgun sound effect, but I must congratulate the guys at Natural Motion...a glowing red ball in the air comes pretty damn close!

- WTF x 2 is up with those freaking player models and uniforms? That is just flat out sad looking...I want football players, not ******* space marines in football helmets...and I want JERSEYS (preferrably 100% customizable like NCAA 10's Teambuilder), not what is being shown on BB footage since 2005. That stuff passed muster as tech demo footage, but to be in "actual gameplay" footage and looking EXACTLY the same as the stuff from the tackle alley video screams to me that BB is either - totally unconcerned with the look of their players, and intending to release the game with that look included; or they are waaaaaaaaaaaaay behind and after 3 going on 4 years in development they are not close to releasing anything yet.

The tackles look great...everything else, and I mean everything...looks horrible.

[JohnDoe8865]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Great post Ian. It's really swell of you to come back here on the weekend and post about some users' concerns. Appreciate it.

[will12203]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

awesome news Ian :-)

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Maybe you can answer this...

My issue with Backbreaker clearly is not the collisions. Those are positively awesome, obviously... but how do you sit back and let slide the fact that every tackle we've seen is a highlight reel Blitz looking tackle in which the defender nearly always leaves his feet to make it even if he's in a fine position to earhole the guy?

Yes, the way to bodies react is realistic, but the tackles themselves are quite not.

Just like EA its a Marketing thing. They want to WOW the audience.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Ian thanks a ton for the heads up, and this should eliminate any complaints.

I really respect how hard you guys are working on this Madden. I cant say enough how shocked I'am on how much your trying to implement in 1 year into Madden 10.
It's pretty amazing, again thxs

[Moostache]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Just like EA its a Marketing thing. They want to WOW the audience.

Oh, I am "wowwed" alright....

WOW (that looks bad)....


EGAD (they did WHAT to the ball???)....


DAMN (I wasn't seeing things, it really IS there...right next to the "Actual Gameplay Footage" watermark.)....


What do you think Ian? Can we get used selectable ball-glowing this year in Madden or what???

[hmoob]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Oh, I am "wowwed" alright....

WOW (that looks bad)....


EGAD (they did WHAT to the ball???)....


DAMN (I wasn't seeing things, it really IS there...right next to the "Actual Gameplay Footage" watermark.)....


What do you think Ian? Can we get used selectable ball-glowing this year in Madden or what???

Lol, what cheap shots! Clearly you're a Madden fanboy, because you're uneducated in any game non-Madden.

[SageInfinite]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Oh, I am "wowwed" alright....

WOW (that looks bad)....


EGAD (they did WHAT to the ball???)....


DAMN (I wasn't seeing things, it really IS there...right next to the "Actual Gameplay Footage" watermark.)....


What do you think Ian? Can we get used selectable ball-glowing this year in Madden or what???

People are claiming the glowing red ball is a replay thing. I don't really understand what they are trying to convey with a glowing red football, but hey we'll see.

[hmoob]

Re: PRO-TAK - what's NOT there yet...

Maybe you can answer this...

My issue with Backbreaker clearly is not the collisions. Those are positively awesome, obviously... but how do you sit back and let slide the fact that every tackle we've seen is a highlight reel Blitz looking tackle in which the defender nearly always leaves his feet to make it even if he's in a fine position to earhole the guy?

Yes, the way to bodies react is realistic, but the tackles themselves are quite not.

Look at the Qore video where Torsten was going over the replay, the defender in the replay would have given the RB a wrap tackle but he jumped to avoid it. Now if you were the controller wanted the tackles to be less extreme, you would not jump and lower your shoulders. It's all about preference.