Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

[LBzrule]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

That is disheartening to hear. One of my biggest pet peeves of 09 is that 2 man rush 9 man zone technique that works cause half your oline is out to lunch. I understand what you are saying though if they cant peel off blocking assignments.

If the running game stays similar to CD, I don't think many people will be running 2 Man rush, 9 man zone coverage unless the situation demands it. This is part of the reason why I think they should leave the running game strong; so people will not jump into defenses like this, dime, and quarters the entire game thinking they can lock things down. With the way the run game was a CD, you'd be very crazy to line up in those defenses against I Pro, I Twin TE or any of the other offensive formations with 2 TE's. Those DB's would get trucked anyways. So I sorta wanted them to leave the run game strong and just add more 8 man fronts and keep the run game strong to force you to use them. I hear there are some additional D's that could be a part of the game though, so hold on to ya hat and let's see what they have to offer there.

[LBzrule]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

you don't feel they would of been able to implement the pass defender off logic from last year to this years version?

that's really disappointing

Pass Defender Off Logic is not easy to code, plus adding the animations to go with it. People really criticize 2k8 for not having uber great graphics and what not ect, but one of the things they did in those 3 years, is get their Oline logic down and they still were not done with it. There were still some additional protections that they wanted in the game but ran out of time.

I'm not saying Tiburon cannot do this, but in a short period of time, I'm afraid not. This was the one thing going into CD that I told the guys there. I do not expect a complete Offensive Line module. So going in with that mindset, I only looked for the basics. With all the other things they are doing this year, no way, I'd be convinced of a full OL line blocking module. This year as long as the framework for that module is in, then we'll be good. You got the pocket, which is a great start. And the procedural steering is actually something where they surpass 2k8. The hand fighting is better too. But as far as protections, passing defenders off to another lineman, there is no way they could be there yet. As bigjake said, OL is very complicated in real life, but then having to translate that into a video game and then triggering animations for all of that, I'm afraid this is a long term project. I can live with that. They do have the basics down.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

If the running game stays similar to CD, I don't think many people will be running 2 Man rush, 9 man zone coverage unless the situation demands it. This is part of the reason why I think they should leave the running game strong; so people will not jump into defenses like this, dime, and quarters the entire game thinking they can lock things down. With the way the run game was a CD, you'd be very crazy to line up in those defenses against I Pro, I Twin TE or any of the other offensive formations with 2 TE's. Those DB's would get trucked anyways. So I sorta wanted them to leave the run game strong and just add more 8 man fronts and keep the run game strong to force you to use them. I hear there are some additional D's that could be a part of the game though, so hold on to ya hat and let's see what they have to offer there.

Thats reassuring. In older versions those smaller dbs could still make the play because size wasn't a big enough factor. As long as there is a realistic strategy to combat this technique, Im happy for now.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

remember they brought in that guy who played in the cfl to overlook the oline blocking. Oh gwad no wonder the blocking is so bad lmao

[PlatooN]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

those twists and stunts from APF are so slick

[noplace]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

Madden still not seeing 2k8 in the oline dept despite the improvements. Getting better but not quite there.

[Netherscourge]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

Madden 09's line-of-scrimmage battles look like Electric Football sometimes...

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[J-Unit40]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

Madden 09's line-of-scrimmage battles look like Electric Football sometimes...

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/ySddLys3Gbs&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

Nice.

[grunt]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

I am not overly critical of the madden team because they are taking steps to make o-line play better.

[LBzrule]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

remember they brought in that guy who played in the cfl to overlook the oline blocking. Oh gwad no wonder the blocking is so bad lmao

Actually their BOB protection logic is pretty damn good. I'm not fond of the slide protection though. It is a full slide and in the NFL if you do that on a consistent basis you will get your players feeling sorry for themselves, because they are gonna be without a job, sorry for the fans because they have to watch this sad display, and poor QB is going to die. They need half line slides and let the back side stay man on man, like so:



Here you get the Will backer walked up to the line and the Center declares weakside help. So now the Tackle steps out and picks up the Will, the Guard steps to the DE and the Center steps to the DT. On the backside the G and Tackle are in big on big (BOB). In Madden the entire line would slide weak and unless you leave that TE in to block that back side DE comes in unabated.

[Rashad19]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

Madden 09's line-of-scrimmage battles look like Electric Football sometimes...

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/ySddLys3Gbs&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

Great video!!

[grunt]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

Actually their BOB protection logic is pretty damn good. I'm not fond of the slide protection though. It is a full slide and in the NFL if you do that on a consistent basis you will get your players feeling sorry for themselves, because they are gonna be without a job, sorry for the fans because they have to watch this sad display, and poor QB is going to die. They need half line slides and let the back side stay man on man, like so:

Do you think any game will have this level of pass blocking?

[LBzrule]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

Do you think any game will have this level of pass blocking?

This year? Doubtful. I know they have full slide. But I'd be highly surprised to see half slides with BOB on the backside. But who knows.

[Valdarez]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

Madden is making great progress in all area's of the game even O-line. But from what I can see APF2k8 still is a bit more advanced in the O-Line department just for the fact that you hardly ever see a free man floating. Also it seems to me that lanes are created much better in APF. I love the spacing.

The spacing is good, and serves well for manually blitzing. Unfortunately called blitzes are hard to pull off as many times the LBs simply ignore their lanes, even when they are wide open. I'm not sure the cause, but it's the main reason I created this thread to discuss how blitzing lanes are called --> http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ight=blitizing

[Valdarez]

Re: Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

Good vids, from what I am seeing Madden deosn't seem as far off as I originally thought. Obviously when you are playing there is a world of difference but I think with pro-tak and some tuning Madden may come close this year.

If Madden isn't far off, I'm not sure what it's close to. If you watch, there is no pocket, guys stand up and pretty much react to anything in their general area, moving out of their lanes, or back towards the QB (the squishing effect I mentioned earlier).

Regardless of the on field execution, the one thing that truly separates the games is APF2K8's ability for players to call their DLine play before their actual play. A proper DLine play can stop a run by plugging a gap, or setup a hot blitz by opening up a lane. With the current Madden '09 implementation your DLine play is left to the mercy of whoever designed the play you are calling and is the same game in and game out.