Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

[pgtrain42]

"Quote:
See, this is what I was on about earlier.

You subscribe to this myth that being a great system QB with huge stats makes you a great overall player. I disagree. Manning and Brady have time and time again PROVEN themselves to be physically incabable of making plays when the system breaks down. They curl up and take a sack or throw the ball away.

Roethlisberger makes plays when Manning or Brady would be sacked or give up on the play. That counts for something.

There is a game that is played between the hash marks that cannot be measured in statistics."

Roethlisberger makes plays when Brady or Manning would get sacked? Are you serious? Brady and Manning have the best pocket presence in the game, there's a reason that they always get the ball off before getting hit by a defender. On the other hand, Roethlisberger has been the most sacked quarterback in the NFL the last 3 years (46+ each time). You call Brady and Manning system quarterbacks when Big Ben for his first two years was part of a run first offensive attack (not to mention having a defense that was just as good as the Patriots D that won those 3 super bowls in each of his two Super Bowls). Two of the last three years he's nearly had more interceptions than touchdowns (he did in '06 by 5!). I'm not saying Roethlisberger is a bad quarterback, or even mediocre he's still top 5, but until he can stop throwing so many picks and getting sacked so much, he's not in Brady or Mannings class.

[Yo-Yo]

Well EA always gives players who won the superbowl high ratings even if they didn't put up the big numbers. They always do that.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Witten ran a 4.67 forty time.. Deceptively quick

So basically he runs a 4.7, and that is not fast for a receiving TE. There are 4.4 and 4.5 TEs in this league. 4.7 is getting into DT territory.

The whole system QB debate is so dead and buried. I think we have enough history behind us now to realize that no matter what system you place a guy in, HE is going to have to play well in order for it to work. For example, look at how many QB's have run the West Coast offense? But how many of them have been successful? Not many, and the guys that were most successful are sitting in the HOF right now (Montana, Young, Elway). Steve Bono played pretty much his whole career in that offense and I don't think he will be getting any HOF votes, but that's just my wild guess...

Bottom line and fact, the QB makes the system successful not the other way around. Any Coach at any level will tell you that. And Brady has proved unarguably that he can be successful in a controlled passing system or a wide-open system.

Also, in terms of what happens on breakdowns, I'd say historically that's been a Manning issue. I could point to lots of games where once pressure came on a regular basis Manning crumbled, and I can point to games where the same happened to Brady and he didn't crumble, Super Bowl 42 is a perfect example as he'd gotten smashed up all game long yet never threw a pick, had solid numbers, and still was able to get one last 4th quarter comeback drive in... unfortunately for him, Eli put together his own right after.

You are subscribing to another myth that the system is just about Xs and Os. It's also about coaching and personnel. Bad play-calling, a weak GM, injuries, and a whole host of other factors can completely de-rail a QBs career. Marino was statistically the best passer of his time, but never had enough team around him to win a SB.

If you cannot function outside the system and make plays, you are a system QB. That's Brady and Manning. Sure, Brady kept from making mistakes in the SB, but that makes him a game manager not a playmaker. He does not make big plays when the system breaks down. Period. McNabb does. Favre does. Roethlisberger does. That's the difference, and it can't be measured with a numerical formula.

I'll jump in at this point. Every great qb was/is part of a great team. Start at Montana (Rice) and work your way up. You are proving no point. Brady is a great QB, Big Ben is a product of a great defense, but gets the job done when he is called upon, he too is a great qb. Peyton on the other hand is a great regular season qb, when the heat gets turned up his stock seems to go down. Brady is the best in the game (injury not withstanding), period.

Brady is the best in the game only because the rules of the NFL are designed to be unfair to defenses. Brady is a product of the system that he plays in, and the rules designed to allow him to cheat when he's in trouble. If he couldn't slide or throw the ball away he would start to be exposed. Go a step further and remove the rediculous 5 yard chuck rule (the Mel Blount Rule) and now he HAS to make plays because everyone isn't going to be running downfield untouched.

This game has been around a long time. But in the last 30 years has become less and less fair to defenses. Brady and Manning are manufactured superstars who lack the physical talent to play in a league that does not cater to their weakness.

People always want to know why there is so much bad QB play in the NFL. The answer is that these pink jersey rules surrounding QBs and the passing game have bred so much weakness and cowardice into the position that most of these guys don't have what it takes to survive adversity. Manning and Brady have always played on very talented teams, and faced very little on-field adversity (Tom's knee being the worst). I submit to you that if either played for the Raiders or Lions nobody outside of hardcore fans would have heard of them.

[Tito78]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

There's no way that Peyton should have a higher THP(throwing power) than McNabb. McNabb has a stronger arm than any of the QB's that are listed.

Donny Moore, what the hell are you thinking ?

[Tito78]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I'm a huge patriots fan, but i don't see brady's arm strength greater than manning or Big Ben.

ummm

Or McNabb, who has a stronger arm than any of the QB's listed.

[Yo-Yo]

So, SHOTGUN STYLES, are you saying that if Brady and Manning played for Raiders or Lions they would have bad seasons and would not lead their teams to the playoffs??? Cause if youre saying nobody would have heard of them , you mean that they would suck.

[NovaStar]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

So basically he runs a 4.7, and that is not fast for a receiving TE. There are 4.4 and 4.5 TEs in this league. 4.7 is getting into DT territory.



You are subscribing to another myth that the system is just about Xs and Os. It's also about coaching and personnel. Bad play-calling, a weak GM, injuries, and a whole host of other factors can completely de-rail a QBs career. Marino was statistically the best passer of his time, but never had enough team around him to win a SB.

If you cannot function outside the system and make plays, you are a system QB. That's Brady and Manning. Sure, Brady kept from making mistakes in the SB, but that makes him a game manager not a playmaker. He does not make big plays when the system breaks down. Period. McNabb does. Favre does. Roethlisberger does. That's the difference, and it can't be measured with a numerical formula.



Brady is the best in the game only because the rules of the NFL are designed to be unfair to defenses. Brady is a product of the system that he plays in, and the rules designed to allow him to cheat when he's in trouble. If he couldn't slide or throw the ball away he would start to be exposed. Go a step further and remove the rediculous 5 yard chuck rule (the Mel Blount Rule) and now he HAS to make plays because everyone isn't going to be running downfield untouched.

This game has been around a long time. But in the last 30 years has become less and less fair to defenses. Brady and Manning are manufactured superstars who lack the physical talent to play in a league that does not cater to their weakness.

People always want to know why there is so much bad QB play in the NFL. The answer is that these pink jersey rules surrounding QBs and the passing game have bred so much weakness and cowardice into the position that most of these guys don't have what it takes to survive adversity. Manning and Brady have always played on very talented teams, and faced very little on-field adversity (Tom's knee being the worst). I submit to you that if either played for the Raiders or Lions nobody outside of hardcore fans would have heard of them.

In a nutshell, would this theory of yours apply to Montana? Elway? Staubach, Bradshaw? Based upon your analysis, you are saying that today's rules are specifically designed so that Brady and qb's like him (immobile) can succeed? Tell me what qb would you consider great?

Also, you put any QB on that lions team and no one would have heard of them. The real question is if you put the current lions qb on the pats, would they be as successful? The reality is every qb runs a system, therefore they are one with the system. The Key is, can you take your system and beat me with mine, that is where greatness is found, to date, or should I say in this modern era, Brady's system is supreme. Period.

[Tito78]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

As much as I had to give any sort of props to a Giants player, Jacobs got the shaft; he's better than DeAngelo Williams.

[Tito78]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

TO is better that Roddy white, Calvin Johnson and Moss should be ahead of Steve Smith.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

So, SHOTGUN STYLES, are you saying that if Brady and Manning played for Raiders or Lions they would have bad seasons and would not lead their teams to the playoffs??? Cause if youre saying nobody would have heard of them , you mean that they would suck.

Well, yes. It's a team game afterall. Very few QBs can carry a bad team. Favre was one. Vick, and McNabb are two others. But that is because they could do amazing things on their own. Manning and Brady can't make plays on their own. They rely on the system to help them.

So yes, they would suck without very talented teams around them.

In a nutshell, would this theory of yours apply to Montana? Elway? Staubach, Bradshaw? Based upon your analysis, you are saying that today's rules are specifically designed so that Brady and qb's like him (immobile) can succeed? Tell me what qb would you consider great?

For someone advocating statistical analysis, you don't seem to have done any. Staubach and Bradshaw played before the 1978 rule changes. They were very good, but statistically don't compare to today's QBs. That's because the rules did not allow them and their recievers free reign. They had to earn that football, it wasn't free like it is today.

Furthermore, both had to make plays because cheating was not allowed. You couldn't throw the ball at the HB's feet to avoid a hit (naked cowardice).

Also, you put any QB on that lions team and no one would have heard of them. The real question is if you put the current lions qb on the pats, would they be as successful? The reality is every qb runs a system, therefore they are one with the system. The Key is, can you take your system and beat me with mine, that is where greatness is found, to date, or should I say in this modern era, Brady's system is supreme. Period.

You mean Culpepper to Moss? I remember that combo. IT WAS EXPLOSIVE. Thanks for making my point for me! Those two were good for like 40 touchdowns in a season, and battled with Manning for the record.

[Tito78]

Re: ESPN - Madden 10 player ratings

i have to agree a 81 thp ouch

I don't know if it should be that low; however, it shouldn't be that much higher IMO. Rivers, while he doesn't have a water pistol for an arm, he's doesn't have the strongest arm either.

[djp34]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

So basically he runs a 4.7, and that is not fast for a receiving TE. There are 4.4 and 4.5 TEs in this league. 4.7 is getting into DT territory.



You are subscribing to another myth that the system is just about Xs and Os. It's also about coaching and personnel. Bad play-calling, a weak GM, injuries, and a whole host of other factors can completely de-rail a QBs career. Marino was statistically the best passer of his time, but never had enough team around him to win a SB.

If you cannot function outside the system and make plays, you are a system QB. That's Brady and Manning. Sure, Brady kept from making mistakes in the SB, but that makes him a game manager not a playmaker. He does not make big plays when the system breaks down. Period. McNabb does. Favre does. Roethlisberger does. That's the difference, and it can't be measured with a numerical formula.



Brady is the best in the game only because the rules of the NFL are designed to be unfair to defenses. Brady is a product of the system that he plays in, and the rules designed to allow him to cheat when he's in trouble. If he couldn't slide or throw the ball away he would start to be exposed. Go a step further and remove the rediculous 5 yard chuck rule (the Mel Blount Rule) and now he HAS to make plays because everyone isn't going to be running downfield untouched.

This game has been around a long time. But in the last 30 years has become less and less fair to defenses. Brady and Manning are manufactured superstars who lack the physical talent to play in a league that does not cater to their weakness.

People always want to know why there is so much bad QB play in the NFL. The answer is that these pink jersey rules surrounding QBs and the passing game have bred so much weakness and cowardice into the position that most of these guys don't have what it takes to survive adversity. Manning and Brady have always played on very talented teams, and faced very little on-field adversity (Tom's knee being the worst). I submit to you that if either played for the Raiders or Lions nobody outside of hardcore fans would have heard of them.

Hes just a ***** because we beat them in the afc champ twice when they were favored both times. So montana is a system quarterback also and he was only good cause he had rice lol.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Also, you put any QB on that lions team and no one would have heard of them. The real question is if you put the current lions qb on the pats, would they be as successful?

Um....

YEP!
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[mavfan21]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Wow...I can't believe McNabb's Deep Accuracy is so low. That's the thing he does best. He throws a fantastic deep ball. The short/touch throws are difficult for him, but very few people throw a better deep bomb. Guess I'll have to edit that myself.

[C the Lyte]

Most of the time I take up for the EA guys when people are hammering them, however, I have to agree with alot of the negativity on this one. I read somewhere on here where 99 should constitute a future hall of famer. I couldn't agree more. But with some of these, and Donny dropping the ratings of alot of the "average" players even lower, these top 10 guys are going to be like Greek Gods out there!!! I play as the Titans so Manning is going to be a beast!!! Speaking of Titans, you mean to tell me Chris Johnson isn't top 10 material? He was the 8th leading rusher in the league, 3rd in AFC. What gives?