Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

[countryboy]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

I don't see what it matters as to why Ian and co. came here, the fact is they are here. We wanted it and now we got it.

And all one has to do is frequent the boards often to see that the interaction between devs and community has paid dividends. (pass rush...QB throwing animations)

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

Speaking only for me, it's not that I'm impossible to please. It's that what would please me is not high on your list of priorities. I'd have to check my wishlist, but I'd bet that my top 3-5 wishes are still absent from '10.

I agree that sucks, but such is developing a game for 5 million people...everyone's wishlist won't get met. I know you love tiered defensive playcalling for example...that's a huge investment in time for an extremely tiny percentage of people that want it - I can't say with certainty we'd decide to implement that feature next year.

Knowing the problems still present, knowing how fundamentally important these issues are, and knowing another game has accomplished some of these things years ago, you should better understand folks frustrations.

It's frustrating as people act like we aren't dedicated to fundamentals though. That's my point here. We've fixed MANY major issues when it comes to the fundamentals, but that will get ignored - there will just be some other video where a guy broke a tackle on a player he shouldn't have that happened one time in practice mode and it will be the end of the world. You saw in person the presentation Phil and I gave to our senior management regarding the focus for the year...which was fixing the issues that have plagued Madden FOREVER. There was NO pocket last year...there was NO momentum last year. To be clear - I don't want people to congratulate us - I want constant feedback on how to keep improving the game - but I also kind of resent the fact if someone says that we aren't focusing on fundamentals, because we truly are.

Feeling some are impossible to please probably means you have no motivation to please those folks. But if I were in your position, those people would be my motivation. Even if their only goal is to find faults in your game, if the complaints are valid, how can you be upset with anything but what's stopping your from addressing those issues?

They obviously are my motivation (hence why I'm here). There's no reason to put up with all the negativity that comes with community interaction if I wasn't here trying to please everyone. I wouldn't have stayed up until 5 am for a week putting in two new camera angles on my own time if that wasn't my goal.

My goal is to fix every single issue that any person comes up with. And we have done that to the best of our abilities this year - based on apex's videos, based on you guys and the community day feedback, etc. The point I'm making is that we'll continue to fix these issues but I feel many folks are insatiable. Maybe I'm wrong here...but doesn't it seem crazy that someone is in essence chomping at the bit to get the game solely for the purpose of recording bugs to put on YouTube?

[Reggie16]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

Maybe I'm wrong here...but doesn't it seem crazy that someone is in essence chomping at the bit to get the game solely for the purpose of recording bugs to put on YouTube?

i agree with you ian its pretty ridiculous what he does

Keep up the good work!

Thanks!

[DocHolliday]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

You deserve a vacation Ian.

[Phobia]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

I agree that sucks, but such is developing a game for 5 million people...everyone's wishlist won't get met. I know you love tiered defensive playcalling for example...that's a huge investment in time for an extremely tiny percentage of people that want it - I can't say with certainty we'd decide to implement that feature next year.

It's frustrating as people act like we aren't dedicated to fundamentals though. That's my point here. We've fixed MANY major issues when it comes to the fundamentals, but that will get ignored - there will just be some other video where a guy broke a tackle on a player he shouldn't have that happened one time in practice mode and it will be the end of the world. You saw in person the presentation Phil and I gave to our senior management regarding the focus for the year...which was fixing the issues that have plagued Madden FOREVER. There was NO pocket last year...there was NO momentum last year. To be clear - I don't want people to congratulate us - I want constant feedback on how to keep improving the game - but I also kind of resent the fact if someone says that we aren't focusing on fundamentals, because we truly are.

They obviously are my motivation (hence why I'm here). There's no reason to put up with all the negativity that comes with community interaction if I wasn't here trying to please everyone. I wouldn't have stayed up until 5 am for a week putting in two new camera angles on my own time if that wasn't my goal.

My goal is to fix every single issue that any person comes up with. And we have done that to the best of our abilities this year - based on apex's videos, based on you guys and the community day feedback, etc. The point I'm making is that we'll continue to fix these issues but I feel many folks are insatiable. Maybe I'm wrong here...but doesn't it seem crazy that someone is in essence chomping at the bit to get the game solely for the purpose of recording bugs to put on YouTube?

EXCELLENT post Ian, Hell I been one of the biggest Madden haters and I am friggin stoked about madden 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you have to be one of the best developers. Other game developers need to look at what you are doing and do the same. Because YOU ALONE convinced me to go and buy Madden 10. I have it paid in full as of right now!!

Thanks for everything Ian!!

[adembroski]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

The point has been made numerous times before but I'll say it again. Ian...having your covert Community Day with members of this forum who were viewed as being among the bigger Madden critics has had one nasty bi-product. It's causing people to "audition" for an invite next year.

Bingo!

You look at these people who create YouTube videos going over Madden game film more thoroughly than a Bill Belicek film session and YOU KNOW what's on their mind...they think they're going to either impress you with their "vast football knowledge" or piss you off enough to where you'll want to invite them to your Community Day next year.

Skyboxer said it best...the OS Madden Forum has become nothing more than a Madden NFL 11 Community Day application submission forum. Having the Community Day was great. Making news of it happening public...not so great.

I think that's on the live team. It did seem very much like Ian and Phil wanted to stay low key. I think everyone knew a Madden CD was going to happen after the NCAA CD happened, but the backlash after NCAA CD was such that they decided to really scale back the coverage. That said, the coverage was there, and maybe it should have been left alone.

People have asked how to get to CD, and I always give them the same answer; thoughtful, intelligent, useful feedback, both positive and negative. I don't think pure negativity, no matter how well constructed, is going to get you there. If you can't find anything right with Madden, then there's a level of unreasonability that I don't think even Ian wants to contend with.

[FootballDetails]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

Skyboxer said it best...the OS Madden Forum has become nothing more than a Madden NFL 11 Community Day application submission forum.

That's a ridiculous statement.

There's always an increase of pointed criticism this time of year. People are venting, and a good portion of them probably don't know the community day even happened.

[adembroski]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

Probably doesn't need to be said, but it is still imperative that they add analog running on top of that. The cuts and stuff felt good, but my balloon was deflated since it was still either run or sprint and no in-between. I'm very curious to see what they come out with next year with locomotion being a FOCUS and not just an area that gets a little attention (in light of all the other stuff they added).

Absolutely, the ability to fine tune your pace is vital, but the issue they ran into is that the AI needs to know how to use it. Rather than slow down and position themselves, they just overrun the spot then have to turn in a big circle to get to the spot they need to be. This would have turned into a very big problem if it shipped, so with so little time, it had to be scrapped rather than rebuilding the AI to handle momentum.

With that said, I need to whip out FIFA to see what you're talking about. I have the game, I just haven't played it very often.

But I agree...we need a modifier or something in place to give the Madden RB's the look of a true RB approaching the LOS. And not just the look, but the controls as well like you said.

[Thinking out loud...] What if they got locomotion and momentum to a place where we could rid ourselves of the sprint button in Madden 11; RT or L2 would serve as a good button for such a modifier. Not sure what the button would serve as for other positions though? Again, just kicking around premature ideas.

I'm not a fan of getting rid of the sprint button. I think that's a "next gear" sorta button that should be included, with it's own range of analog control. It would be sprint, but there wouldn't be any lateral movement... in other words, it's like an offensive strafe button. You hold it down to gain maximum speed and keep yourself facing the endzone (or ball carrier/ball landing point, as the case may be) and changing directions is sort of a 'lane change' rather than a turn.

Goes to show that everyones concerns & preferences are different. Let 10 "sim" gamers review it and you'll get 10 different opinions.

You think so? You think people are going to pile on this game like they did '09?

[Skyboxer]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

That's a ridiculous statement.

There's always an increase of pointed criticism this time of year. People are venting, and a good portion of them probably don't know the community day even happened.

No it was and still is a VERY accurate statement. In no time before has there been this much whining/nit picking/over analyzing/ panty in a bunch posts, EVER.

It's laughable the types of posts and idiotic vids that are being posted.
Especially when a lot talk about issues ALREADY ADDRESSED. Now wonder why that happens? I'll tell you why. Most of the job seakers don't even follow the boards to see any progress at all because they don't care about progress but rather just what they can spew out day in and day out.

[Naednek]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

Last year I bought 09 and played it for a few months, and just pissed off. I got tired of the comeback AI and other things that I've experienced over the years. My first Madden game was on the Tandy 1000, before it was on consoles. I've bought a madden game every year since then. However last year I had enough, and I swore I would skip this years.

That's until I saw this year's version. I'm glad Ian and crew has taken time to share with the community. It seems that they listened and did their best to make it the best version to date. I also thought that past maddens sorely lacked presentation, and from what I've seen, they've done a better job with that.

So with that said, I'll be giving it another chance. But if it disappoints, it will be the last straw.

Thanks Ian and crew for being so open to your customers

[beefandpork]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

I was lurking the madden board on ign and saw people complaining about Pro tak and how it looks terrible, isnt smooth,ect. The guy even posted visual evidence that its going fail! The video's he linked to were released back in May

[K_GUN]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

No it was and still is a VERY accurate statement. In no time before has there been this much whining/nit picking/over analyzing/ panty in a bunch posts, EVER.

It's laughable the types of posts and idiotic vids that are being posted.
Especially when a lot talk about issues ALREADY ADDRESSED. Now wonder why that happens? I'll tell you why. Most of the job seakers don't even follow the boards to see any progress at all because they don't care about progress but rather just what they can spew out day in and day out.

also keep in mind, when 'daddy' is in the room, each kids suddenly vies for his attention.

just knowing that Ian & co are here at OS daily also adds to the chaos

[Skyboxer]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

also keep in mind, when 'daddy' is in the room, each kids suddenly vies for his attention.

just knowing that Ian & co are here at OS daily also adds to the chaos

Ahhh! Good point and very true.

[RGiles36]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

Absolutely, the ability to fine tune your pace is vital, but the issue they ran into is that the AI needs to know how to use it. Rather than slow down and position themselves, they just overrun the spot then have to turn in a big circle to get to the spot they need to be. This would have turned into a very big problem if it shipped, so with so little time, it had to be scrapped rather than rebuilding the AI to handle momentum.

Yeah, I got all of that, and I don't blame them for the decision they made. Besides, this time last year momentum was not at the top of my wishlist (nor was it for many others). As such, I'm not going to pretend as if this is some gamekiller. It's a hot topic now b/c so many key areas were addressed or improved at least.

I'm not a fan of getting rid of the sprint button. I think that's a "next gear" sorta button that should be included, with it's own range of analog control. It would be sprint, but there wouldn't be any lateral movement... in other words, it's like an offensive strafe button. You hold it down to gain maximum speed and keep yourself facing the endzone (or ball carrier/ball landing point, as the case may be) and changing directions is sort of a 'lane change' rather than a turn.

That's something we'll probably revisit as development revs up on '11 (and plus I don't want to derail this thread ). But if I can say this, should they keep the sprint button, they need to change it up. Currently, I personally don't feel as though the difference between running and sprinting in Madden is varied enough to warrant the use of an additional button. I'm sure they can come up with some neat stuff with locomotion and momentum being a focus next year.

[Segagendude]

Re: Who is gonna give Madden one last chance?

I'm not nearly as picky as some are. Examples of what I've read: "(player's name) stance is wrong, he actually puts his left hand down, not his right."
"The cornerback shouldn't have his feet so far apart."
Etc...

For me, it looks like the basics are there: Proper pocket, no more "moonshot" long passes, qb's no longer jog or sprint to the line, the RB actually has to wait for the hole to open up before bursting through, and the overall gamespeed looks tons better. No longer plays at 100+ MPH.
The Show is one of my favorite sports games, but I can find weird looking animations in it as well. Do I care? Not really, because the game itself is so immersive and fun to play. That's all I'm looking for.

09 was lacking the above mentioned items, so it quickly turned me off. Not to mention it put me to sleep on numerous occasions. Presentation just wasn't there.
Based on what I've seen so far, I'm excited to get 10 on launch day.