3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

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  • King Gro23
    MVP
    • Jan 2008
    • 2548

    #76
    Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

    The NFL has always been a "follow me" league. When something works, other teams are quick to latch on to it and it begins to sweep the league. This is true with the Pittsburgh’s 3-4 defense which led the Steelers to the Super Bowl title in 2009.
    Where the 3-4 Comes From

    The 3-4 was originated at the collegiate level at the University of Oklahoma in the 1940s. The Miami Dolphins were the first to bring the 3-4 to the professional ranks and won a Super Bowl running the defense in the 1970s.
    From there the defense grew and currently 18 teams including the Dallas Cowboys and the Green Bay Packers run or will be running the 3-4 defense as their base defense.
    Setting up the 3-4 Defense

    The 3-4 defense formation is as its name suggests. Three down linemen with four linebackers lined up behind them. Two cornerbacks cover the outside receivers and a strong and free safety make up the middle of the defensive backfield.
    In the 3-4 set up the front seven players are really the key to the defense. The front three defensive linemen are made up of two defensive ends and nose guard. In the 3-4 defense, the nose guard needs to be a player that can clog up the middle.


    Read more: http://how-to-play-football.suite101...#ixzz0OOc8caMa

    Advantage of the 3-4 Defense

    The main advantage of the 3-4 defense is its linebackers and canopy effect they give to the line of scrimmage. Based 5 yards back from the play, linebackers can read the flow of the play and give pursuit. The defensive lineman are really there to take up blockers and clog the running lanes leaving the linebackers free to make the play.
    The 3-4 defense also can confuse offenses as at different times a different linebacker can be lined up on the line of scrimmage to rush the passer. A number of blitz packages are also available to defensive coordinators as blitzes can come from any of the eight spots on in the defensive backfield.
    Disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense

    The 3-4 defense really is a personnel-based defense. If a team does not have the linebackers who have the speed and size needed or defensive linemen who cannot take up blockers , the 3-4 is very vulnerable. The result of these situations is teams playing a base 3-4 but through most of the game actually running a 4-3 defense with a linebacker used as the fourth down lineman.
    The 3-4 defense is also susceptible to the inside rush. With just a nose guard to plug the middle, the inside rushing game many NFL teams use as a base offensive play. Teams running the 3-4 defense need to have a nose guard that can occupy 2 to 3 players on every down to free up the middle linebackers. In the league right now, finding a true nose guard like that is difficult because of the emphasis on speed play in the college ranks is producing fewer large bodies to be run stoppers.


    Read more: http://how-to-play-football.suite101...#ixzz0OOczY5JC
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    • bigal093
      Banned
      • Apr 2009
      • 529

      #77
      Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

      [quote=King Gro23;2040033913]"The 3-4 defense is also susceptible to the inside rush."[quote=King Gro23;2040033913]

      which is ironic, because the steelers have argubly the best rush defense over the last 30 some years, last 10 years, and last couple years. its always great. when dick lebeau left, our pass defense REALLY SUFFERED. but our rush defense has always been great. our pass defense has returned the last few years since his return. he is THE greatest D-coordinator i've ever seen. that is my "unbaised" opinion(see--my location/logo)

      [quote=King Gro23;2040033913]"With just a nose guard to plug the middle, the inside rushing game many NFL teams use as a base offensive play. Teams running the 3-4 defense need to have a nose guard that can occupy 2 to 3 players on every down to free up the middle linebackers. In the league right now, finding a true nose guard like that is difficult because of the emphasis on speed play in the college ranks is producing fewer large bodies to be run stoppers."[quote=King Gro23;2040033913]

      CASEY HAMPTON!!!!! he's a monster. I would probably say he's THE best NT in the league(3-4). speaking of the college ranks, casey hampton and "big baby" shaun rogers were on the same team at Texas. HOW DID ANYONE RUN AGAINST THEM?!?!?!?!? lol, that line would be ridiculous. some really great stuff here.


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      Last edited by bigal093; 08-16-2009, 08:59 PM.

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      • fringeelement
        Rookie
        • Sep 2005
        • 172

        #78
        Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

        Originally posted by bigal093
        i want to keep at least one of these threads on the first page, b/c this problem needs realized.
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        Way off topic, but spoken like a true yinzer, leaving out the "to be" I love it!. Go Stillers!

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        • fringeelement
          Rookie
          • Sep 2005
          • 172

          #79
          Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

          Oh, and for the sake of actually contributing to the thread, these are all great ideas. As a Steelers fan I've been consistently upset with the representation of the 3-4 D in Madden for years now. At least get the sims stats fixd with a patch this year and make sure to concentrate on some of the suggestion here for next years game. I hate the term game-killer, but this very nearly is.

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          • imskykid
            Rookie
            • Jan 2009
            • 262

            #80
            Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

            Much thanks to everyone who is supporting this thread. If you have any ideas to add to or improve the ideas already posted, please do!

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            • Luca Brasi
              Banned
              • May 2008
              • 292

              #81
              Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

              Using the Steelers my problems with getting sacks isn't with my DL,it's with Harrison and Woodley. I just CANNOT get any sacks with these guys.

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              • NFLfan80
                Rookie
                • Jul 2003
                • 263

                #82
                Re: EA needs to fix the 3-4 Defense!!!

                Originally posted by SteelCityChamp
                I run with the Steelers and they are a 3-4 Defense. I get sacks with Harrison, Farrior and Woodley all the time. I get a few with Hampton and Keisel but not like I do with my LBs. Yeah, Aaron Smith gets his share as DE but he does in real life too. Maybe you should tweak your settings. I have no problem with the 3-4. I run it like they run it and get pretty genuine results. 2008 regular season - Harrison had 16, Woodley had 12 and in third.......Aaron Smith (DE) with 6. My leading sack leaders in my franchise is Harrison and Woodley. Farrior only had 4 last year.
                What are your settings to get sacks? I'm a Steeler fan/user and have a hard time. QB always gets rid of the ball to quick or either I don't get pressure.

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                • brendanrfoley
                  MVP
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 1552

                  #83
                  Re: EA needs to fix the 3-4 Defense!!!

                  I play as the Patriots and run the 3-4 about 60% of plays. I get plenty of sacks; 6 during my last game against the Raiders. I've seen corners get sacks, linebackers and linemen.

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                  • imskykid
                    Rookie
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 262

                    #84
                    Re: EA needs to fix the 3-4 Defense!!!

                    Originally posted by brendanrfoley
                    I play as the Patriots and run the 3-4 about 60% of plays. I get plenty of sacks; 6 during my last game against the Raiders. I've seen corners get sacks, linebackers and linemen.
                    If you guys go back and read some of the longer posts in this thread you will see that the issue is more than gameplay. Sure, over time with practice and using sliders someone can master playing with the 3-4 and using it effectively. The issue is with simmed stats, CPU draft/free agency logic, AND gameplay AI.

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                    • MattieShoes
                      Rookie
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 489

                      #85
                      Re: EA needs to fix the 3-4 Defense!!!

                      Originally posted by Blokelahoma
                      I really don't think it matters what kind of D you run, if Dwight Freeney is available and willing to sign with your team, you should get him.
                      I'm sure that's what the Raiders were thinking when they signed Warren Sapp. But Sapp wasn't able to adjust to the new position very well -- Before he could explode off the snap and head straight for the QB. In the 3-4 in Oakland, he had to be more cautious about running plays and his greatest asset as a player was neutralized. A 3-4 lineman and a 4-3 lineman require different skills, and it'd be nice if that was reflected in the game. Even if that was reflected in the game, there are different sorts of 3-4 defenses. Traditionally 3-4 linemen line up head-on to the center and ends. Buffalo back in the 90s ran an offset 3-4 where the linemen lined up between, so their guys played more like a typical 4-3 line, exploding off the snap rather than worrying about containment. It's why Bruce Smith was able to amass huge sacks in a 3-4.

                      But I think basic line blocking/attacking logic could be improved first, then see how things stack up. I really wish there was a pass/rush commit since that should significantly affect how linemen play.

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                      • backbreaker
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 3991

                        #86
                        Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

                        Sacks can be had by the end-user. You have to really figure it out with line stunts. This is why Madden needs "Tiered Playcalling". So you can set up your stunts or whatever. As an end-user, you must on passing downs utilize the Right Stick for an attack options. You know up is Line crash to the outside and in the crash in. I just had some very good pressure games using the right stick to assist in my journey. The following film contains "R" rated subject matter for "V" violence. I was able to do this with Right stick up for crash out, A. Smith is the controlled player, so he starts rushing outside and then I push the right stick in and he spun toward the inside once he was free I push the right trigger R2 and he bee lined to the QB and I put a hurting on him and C. Collinsworth made some good commentary about it.

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                        • CreatineKasey
                          MVP
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 4897

                          #87
                          Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

                          I spent a good half hour in practice mode working on pass rushes today and here's a few things I learned:

                          You can definitely hold the R stick left or right for moves and tap it another direction if you want to switch it up.

                          I found for the best speed rush (using Harrison) I would speed burst until I made contact with the OT, then lay off the burst until my shoulder dip animation finished past the OT. Once free I sprinted to the QB and laid the shot.

                          If you speed burst the entire time your player will struggle to turn off the edge during a speed rush. It is wise to lay off the burst during and right after your engagement with the OL.

                          Sometimes OG's will be roaming free and pick you up off the edge.... LAME! To counteract this, re-route your DL to crash somehow and eat up those interior linemen to let you roam free.

                          It DOES work well to hold speed burst and use an INSIDE pass rush move as you really don't need to change direction after the animation finishes and you pass the OL resistance.

                          I've fanned my DL very often online and have had good results. Many players still drop back too far. Once people get disciplined and sit up in the pocket I'll mix up my line stunts, but as a rule of thumb fanning your DL on 3rd and long is pretty darn successful.
                          Xbox Live Gamertag: CreatineKasey

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                          • bigal093
                            Banned
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 529

                            #88
                            Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

                            i struggle getting sacks, b/c the problem is the D-line doesn't ever eat up anyone more than one player

                            casey hampton can eat up 2-3 IRL
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                            • Broncos86
                              Orange and Blue!
                              • May 2009
                              • 5505

                              #89
                              Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

                              If you're rushing only 3 linemen, you're not going to get sacks. This is just common knowledge. Start blitzing a LBer. That's part of what the 3 - 4 is about: not knowing which direction that 4th rusher is coming from.

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                              • bigal093
                                Banned
                                • Apr 2009
                                • 529

                                #90
                                Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

                                ^^^ NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT RUSHING 3 LINEMAN!!!!! sorry but i hate someone who comes in and posts about stuff we aren't even talking about. like the ppl that come in and say i dont see the problem, i got 3 sacks with the DE or DT. no the 3-4 is broken. but its more complecated than that. i've had more user success on plays with 3 lineman and thats it. that is a huge problem. i can blitz 6 and they all get blocked. its terrible. or when i do get there he'll get rid of it like 60% of the time i get a great rush. and not legitly. i mean get hit and do a crap pass.
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