Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

[Dmacho]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

This is not a case that will ever see the light of day or be settled in court.

Why anyone would go through the courts for this is insane, it is just a freakin video game.

This case is about money; madden brings millions upon millions in each year. It's not just "a freakin video game" to whoever is making millions behind it or whoever has been effectively cut out of this mulit-million dollar genre by EA.

[Only1LT]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

2k's price was a great temporary marketing gimmick to get some well deserved attention. What people tend to forget in all the "Evil EA jacked prices back up" talk is how NHL 2k5 and NBA 2k5 also had the same $19.99 price, but they returned to the industry standard $49.99 price the following year. 2k even referred to raising the price of NFL2k back up.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6101436.html

Not sure what that has to do with the point that I made.

[odbman]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I'm almost positive 2k5 outsold Madden on Xbox. Granted, they started at a lower price point, but controlling prices is one of the things that a monopoly is designed to do.

Title Sales
(in millions)
Madden NFL 2001 1.21 million in US (PS2)
Madden NFL 2002 2.3 million in US (PS2)
Madden NFL 2003 3.18 million in US (PS2)
Madden NFL 2004 3.95 million in US (PS2)
Madden NFL 2005 5.77 million: 4.35 million in US (PS2), 1.42 million in US (Xbox)
Madden NFL 2006 5.12 million: 3.71 million in US (PS2), 1.41 million in US (Xbox)
Madden NFL 2007 4.72 million: 2.8 million in US (PS2), 1.72 million in US (Xbox 360)
Madden NFL 2008 3.61 million: 1.9 million in US (PS2), 1.51 million in US (Xbox 360)
Madden NFL 2009 2.3 million first month

Despite EA selling its game in 2005 for 49 and 59 tehu still outsold total units of the competition.While the competition sold it for 19.95.That is like buying a Big Mac for .99 cents compared to a Fatburger 2.29 or In and Out Burger for 2.59.Some people only price matters some only name and some quality.Total units outsold the competition by over 700k that year .

[Only1LT]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

it was released in 2004. 989 only did it because the franchise sucked and got blasted by Madden in sales every year on the ps2.

Again, you missed the point. The point is that there were more Football games on the market pre-exclusive deal, than post exclusive deal. This was in response to a specific post.

[gunterIVXX]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

Any news on the legal proceedings?

Oh I hope and hope and hope EA gets stripped of the exclusive deal.

[Dmacho]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

They *think* the market isn't there. That doesn't make it reality.

Be honest, what they did for 2k8 was horrible. It was a great game on-the-field, but the whole retired NFL player fantasy league angle was just flat out stupid. People wanted franchise modes and customization. Instead, they gave us a bunch of old players in a fantasy league with absolutely no long term playability. The teams didn't even randomize if you started a new season.

There is a market for customizable football gaming. It's not as big as the NFL market, sure, but it's there and NO ONE has even attempted to take advantage of it. "Wahhhhh!! we won't sell as many copies as Madden" is a really stupid reason to not make a game.

They may not sell enough copies to make the project feasible, as far as their bottom line is concerned. If there was a market for it, why hasn't anyone taken advantage of it ? If they thought they could make a substantial profit, don't you think they would make a video game to realize that profit. As far as the simulation sports genre is concerned, licenses to use the likeness of players and the trademarks of their respective leagues are essential. If it wasn't, EA wouldn't have paid a half billion dollars for the exclusive license, nor would they have extended it.

[SmashMan]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

Not sure what that has to do with the point that I made.

You hypothetically mentioned 2K staying at the 19.99 price point.

He provides a quote from 2K saying that they planned to raise the price back up to the market standard.

[Only1LT]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

They may not sell enough copies to make the project feasible, as far as their bottom line is concerned. If there was a market for it, why hasn't anyone taken advantage of it ? If they thought they could make a substantial profit, don't you think they would make a video game to realize that profit.

As far as your first point, I agree. There is definitely a market for this kind of game. One need only look at how many people still play and update 2K5. The question is, how much of a market is there? Common sense would tell me, not that big a market. Natural Motion is making a fully customizable game with Back Breaker, so you would think that they feel that there is a market that is worth exploring if they are making the game. I feel though, that their main objective in making the game is because it is the perfect playground for their Euphoria engine, and bring exposure to said engine in this vehicle, will hopefull lead to licensing of the engine, which is their main objective.

As far as the simulation sports genre is concerned, licenses to use the likeness of players and the trademarks of their respective leagues are essential. If it wasn't, EA wouldn't have paid a half billion dollars for the exclusive license, nor would they have extended it.

This part I disagree with. You are basing the fact that EA spent the amount of money they did on the license to justify it's worth, when we have seen that it is very likely that EA overestimated the number of games they would be able to sell, as a result of having exclusive rights to the aforementioned license. At the end of the day, the amount of money spent on the license could be a very bad financial decision if sales continue to decline. heck it still might not make fiscal sense even if they go back to the pre-exclusive deal sales numbers. I'm sure EA thought that they would be adding a substantial number of games sold to the bottom line as a result of this deal. Not just keeping the status quo, and certainly not selling less.

[odbman]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

One major concern for EA and any company is the need to make money.
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Electronic Arts Inc. remains one of the largest forces in the video game industry, but the company has taken more than its share of the sales slump that has afflicted the sector over the last six months.

This became clear last week when NPD Group reported its video game sales data for the month of August. Though game sales were down across the board for the industry, Electronic Arts took a more notable hit with its typically popular "Madden NFL" franchise, which saw sales for its latest iteration fall by 15% compared to the same period last year. See full story on August game sales.
What all this means is the same thing in alot of industries cost cutting and the need to gain more leverage.By controlling competition and protecting their market share.If that can't be done they will sell of assets or cut cost or both.Cost cutting is unprofitable games and staff let go.

[Cryolemon]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I hate when people say "anyone can still make a football game", when it is very clear that you have a significant advantage when you can use the likeness of real NFL players.

That what customization is for, see the argument below lol:

Think about it, why the hell would EA pay a half a billion dollars for the exclusive license if other companies could compete with customization, but no license. Why would developers pay for licenses period, exclusive or not , if there was a market for unlicensed fully customizable games ?

If there was no licenses, and all games had to be generic, then the one with best customization would win.

They *think* the market isn't there. That doesn't make it reality.

There is a market for customizable football gaming. It's not as big as the NFL market, sure, but it's there and NO ONE has even attempted to take advantage of it. "Wahhhhh!! we won't sell as many copies as Madden" is a really stupid reason to not make a game.

Exactly. If Backbreaker eventually comes out (I think it will at some point, maybe not till mid - late 2010 though) then we'll see how their customization works out. As I've said before, my theory is that 2k were worried about EA suing them if they let users re-create the NFL.

[Only1LT]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

You hypothetically mentioned 2K staying at the 19.99 price point.

He provides a quote from 2K saying that they planned to raise the price back up to the market standard.

If it is "hypothetical", then what does them planning to raise the price back have to do with anything lol? Again, I don't see what this has to do with my point.

For arguments sake, let's say that they did raise the price back. They still opened up their franchise to many people that had not really considered it before. I know that I, and many of my friends, who were life long Madden fans, bought 2K5 in addition to Madden 2005, because it was so much more affordable to own both. I have to believe that others did the same. From that experience, I actually liked 2K5 more than Madden, and would have definitely bought 2K6 and Madden, or maybe just 2K6 alone. Again, I am sure that there are others that would have done the same.

Will all Madden fans jump ship? No, but if the ones that do are buying 2K6, and not some other Football game, then obviously the gap will become even less the next year. If the game is stellar again, you get more Press clippings, more great reviews, more word of mouth, and it is conceivable that Madden is no longer king of the hill at some point in time.

The point is that the $20 price point was a way to get the product noticed. It does not need to stay at that price point if it is in fact deemed to be a better product by the consumer. The challenge was to get consumers to actually TRY the game to see if it was better or not. From that standpoint I don't see how you could argue that they were not successful at least to some degree. This is something that is done by businesses in other markets all the time.

That is the only point that I was making.

[Tbo24]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I really dont understand why people are just sitting here defending EA. Why wouldn't you want competition in the gaming industry seriously? I understand if you are in love with EA and are a loyal fan, but it just boggles my mind that people are defending and rooting for EA to win, its almost ignorant.

[GTheorenHobbes]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I really dont understand why people are just sitting here defending EA. Why wouldn't you want competition in the gaming industry seriously? I understand if you are in love with EA and are a loyal fan, but it just boggles my mind that people are defending and rooting for EA to win, its almost ignorant.

Blows my mind, also. It's like they're told they'll only be able to eat McDonalds hamburgers for the rest of their lives, and yet they like it that way.

[Dmacho]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

That what customization is for, see the argument below lol:



If there was no licenses, and all games had to be generic, then the one with best customization would win.



Exactly. If Backbreaker eventually comes out (I think it will at some point, maybe not till mid - late 2010 though) then we'll see how their customization works out. As I've said before, my theory is that 2k were worried about EA suing them if they let users re-create the NFL.

If there were no licenses, sports games wouldn't sell that well ; we probably wouldn't have a sports game genre at all. The victory wouldn't be that signifcant.

Take Two isn't afraid of being sued by EA. As long as 2k made the game without NFL teams, players and trademarks, they'd be in the clear. They could probably use signature moves and/or celebrations as long as those signiture moves aren't officially trademarked by an athelete.

The only thing that Take Two can't do is put NFL teams, players and trademarks. They can however, allow us to do so with customization.

[countryboy]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I heard EA's lawyers have a trick up their sleeve....



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