Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

[alliance4g63]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

About EA knowing football or not, who are we to say if they do? We don't know that. What I was trying to say in my post about the difficulty of making a game was that yeah, it sounds simple to just go in and say "Let's fix the blocking" but it is probably a hell of alot easier said than done. I can't imagine what its like having to work on all that code and stuff when if you do one thing wrong, it messes up half the game.

I could careless how difficult it is. I'm sure they are compensated well for the field that they are in. And I guarantee you Madden is not the at the top of the list of the most difficult games to program. You may have an argument for the the time frame, but again I will just bring up games of the past on the same schedule that were stellar.

And I'm sorry but their game is a reflection of their football knowledge. The questions they asked the community is a reflection of their football knowledge. 2k never asked how blocking should be, how passing should be or if the uniform colors are right. You know why? It's really simple, turn on the T.V and watch some damn football. Some of you guys are so blind it's actually disturbing.

[johnkorean]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

I could careless how difficult it is. I'm sure they are compensated well for the field that they are in. And I guarantee you Madden is not the at the top of the list of the most difficult games to program. You may have an argument for the the time frame, but again I will just bring up games of the past on the same schedule that were stellar.

And I'm sorry but their game is a reflection of their football knowledge. The questions they asked the community is a reflection of their football knowledge. 2k never asked how blocking should be, how passing should be or if the uniform colors are right. You know why? It's really simple, turn on the T.V and watch some damn football. Some of you guys are so blind it's actually disturbing.

You're right. These guys are highly compensated for what they're doing. So why would they do more work if they're not going to be compensated more than they already are?

[LAKE4742]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

I never did say it was the communities' fault, I was saying how people beg and beg for something, get it and then its like "oh, who cares about that now that it is in." Also, alot of posters on here (typically the ones that seem to join OS just to hate on Madden with no constructive criticism) are just piling on with all the hate which probably was the reason Ian left these boards or at least doesn't post as frequently.

About EA knowing football or not, who are we to say if they do? We don't know that. What I was trying to say in my post about the difficulty of making a game was that yeah, it sounds simple to just go in and say "Let's fix the blocking" but it is probably a hell of alot easier said than done. I can't imagine what its like having to work on all that code and stuff when if you do one thing wrong, it messes up half the game.

Understood. And my points is, who cares what people are begging for, and forgetting the next minute. And who cares about Ian being here, really? That's why as a developer, you shouldn't overly use a message board as advice on any game. Doing so only shows how far your going to get sales, not get the game right. To get the game right, one would just look at football. To get sales, one would consider what the community wants. If it's a game not based on something in real life, then fine. But, if it's supposedly based on real life, and still not close to accurate, then someone is just too focused on trying to please everyone, instead of making an authentic product-something that represents that real life activity accurately.

Is there anyone in any of Madden's meetings that said "Speed Threshold? What do we need a Speed Threshold for? Isn't that what the ratings are for? Howabout we allow ST only on rookie and Pro, then? And we'll make All-Pro the "realistic" setting?" Or something to that effect. But, noooo, EA didn't do that. They didn't make ANY setting realistic. Rookie and Pro are too easy. All-Pro and All-Madden are too cheesy. So, the entire game fails. By trying to please everyone, instead of just making an authentic NFL football game, it all fails miserably.

Furthermore, alot more devs are catering to a casual crowd. Trying to make them feel "comfortable". Adding in little assists, slowing the games down, etc. It's about sales. But, it's going to bite them in the butt, guaranteed. Take away the hardcore crowd, who enjoy realism, skills, and challenging gameplay, and gaming will fall, trust. EA is lucky to have the license, because with this generation of consoles, came a much more adult, and knowledgeble generation of gamers-who would (and do) recognize Madden's very shortcomings when compared to last gen.

Now, some (even Ian) might say that this year was focused more on the hardcore crowd. I'm not so sure, with the way the game plays. It feels like lies, wrapped in blatant halfway sim gameplay. Because there's alot of things in the game that didn't have/shouldn't have to be in. Which brings us back to square one. Either EA was focused more on sales (still), or are just really stupid when it comes to NFL football.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

Tell that to the people of SCEA who made the best baseball game ever, The Show.

Tell that to NBA 2k devs.

Tell that to the EA Soccer, NHL guys.

Tell that to Fight Night devs.

go ahead.

Happily. And I'm sure most of the developers would agree it's hard for them as well

The Show: An entire mode (RTTS) has a debilitating glitch that can crash it beyond recovery that was never completely isolated and fixed (despite THREE patches).

-Franchise mode has numerous glitches (most around staff and the DL).

-People, like with nearly every sport game, complain the game cheats (not saying I agree, because I don't, but it gets the criticism...which means there are aspects that people feel needs addressing).

NBA 2K: Association has glitches-broken training if you do it manually is one of the bigger ones.

-Post-play has been a gripe for awhile now, online has apparently had issues, etc.

FIFA: Manager mode has been hit with a list of glitches so long, I stopped reading it before I was done...lol. There are defensive positioning problems, Be A Pro has progression issues, goalies have braindead moments, etc.

NHL: Franchise mode's stat tracking is a mess, FA and trade logic is goofed, and the mode is bare-bones again.

Defensive and Goalie AI has suspect moments and there are physics issues, freezes, etc to consider as well. Also, to be fair and consistent with the arguments always presented here, many feel the game isn't "sim" hockey, but more fast-paced. I can't intelligently opine on that personally, as I'm no hockey buff, but it is said plenty.

Fight Night: I've played this one the least and haven't played at all since it was patched, but AI, clipping, freezing, and various online glitches were listed from the jump. May be fixed now, I dunno.





Now, all of these range from good-to great, I agree. But if you look at just the negatives you'd probably run screaming before ever firing them up to find out.

The point is these seem to overlooked in ways Madden's glitches never are. I really think most of it is based on reputation over recent years. Some are riding high reputation, some are riding the level of recent years' improvement. All are given the benefit of the doubt regardless of some very comparable flaws.

None of this is to say that benefit of the doubt isn't warranted. Neither is it to say that Madden hasn't earned the scrutiny it gets over their time on this generation of consoles. The only point is, if we are going to list frames of reference, lets get all the cards on the table.

Madden is held to a higher standard in part because of the sport it represents, and in-part because it owns exclusive rights to represent that sports dominant and most popular brand. Because of this, they can't afford (like both FIFA AND NHL did) to really rebuild. They have to do it more transitionally. Add in the mess it made of itself and the admittedly (meaning Ian, Phill, and I'm sure other EA guys admit) poor decision-making in the transition to the current consoles, and it's creates a hole to dig out of as well.

I think the transition has started working (hints last year, more realization for 10) and the team has the right focus and direction. It just takes time. Yes, before the obvious is stated, they've already collectively had time. It's perfectly reasonable for people to jump ship and not put up with the transition. It's also perfectly reasonable to point out flaws in hopes they get fixed.

Let's just not pretend it's any more "broken" and patch-dependent than the vast majority of games available on these consoles, particulalry those with comparable dev cycles. "Playable", aside from stability issues, is entirely subjective.

/End Book.

EDIT: and I'm sorry it's so long, but I don't plan on adding to much more to that...so no need to worry about a repeat performance in this thread at least.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

Understood. And my points is, who cares what people are begging for, and forgetting the next minute. And who cares about Ian being here, really? That's why as a developer, you shouldn't overly use a message board as advice on any game. Doing so only shows how far your going to get sales, not get the game right. To get the game right, one would just look at football. To get sales, one would consider what the community wants. If it's a game not based on something in real life, then fine. But, if it's supposedly based on real life, and still not close to accurate, then someone is just too focused on trying to please everyone, instead of making an authentic product-something that represents that real life activity accurately.

Is there anyone in any of Madden's meetings that said "Speed Threshold? What do we need a Speed Threshold for? Isn't that what the ratings are for? Howabout we allow ST only on rookie and Pro, then? And we'll make All-Pro the "realistic" setting?" Or something to that effect. But, noooo, EA didn't do that. They didn't make ANY setting realistic. Rookie and Pro are too easy. All-Pro and All-Madden are too cheesy. So, the entire game fails. By trying to please everyone, instead of just making an authentic NFL football game, it all fails miserably.

Furthermore, alot more devs are catering to a casual crowd. Trying to make them feel "comfortable". Adding in little assists, slowing the games down, etc. It's about sales. But, it's going to bite them in the butt, guaranteed. Take away the hardcore crowd, who enjoy realism, skills, and challenging gameplay, and gaming will fall, trust. EA is lucky to have the license, because with this generation of consoles, came a much more adult, and knowledgeble generation of gamers-who would (and do) recognize Madden's very shortcomings when compared to last gen.

Now, some (even Ian) might say that this year was focused more on the hardcore crowd. I'm not so sure, with the way the game plays. It feels like lies, wrapped in blatant halfway sim gameplay. Because there's alot of things in the game that didn't have/shouldn't have to be in. Which brings us back to square one. Either EA was focused more on sales (still), or are just really stupid when it comes to NFL football.

Nice post. I agree on most of it.

The unfortunate thing is we (the hardcore/sim crowd) are the minority so more often than not the features are going to be aimed at the casual crowd.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

Now, all of these range from good-to great, I agree. But if you look at just the negatives you'd probably run screaming before ever firing them up to find out.

The point is these seem to overlooked in ways Madden's glitches never are. I really think most of it is based on reputation over recent years. Some are riding high reputation, some are riding the level of recent years' improvement. All are given the benefit of the doubt regardless of some very comparable flaws.

None of this is to say that benefit of the doubt isn't warranted. Neither is it to say that Madden hasn't earned the scrutiny it gets over their time on this generation of consoles. The only point is, if we are going to list frames of reference, lets get all the cards on the table.

Madden is held to a higher standard in part because of the sport it represents, and in-part because it owns exclusive rights to represent that sports dominant and most popular brand. Because of this, they can't afford (like both FIFA AND NHL did) to really rebuild. They have to do it more transitionally. Add in the mess it made of itself and the admittedly (meaning Ian, Phill, and I'm sure other EA guys admit) poor decision-making in the transition to the current consoles, and it's creates a hole to dig out of as well.

I think the transition has started working (hints last year, more realization for 10) and the team has the right focus and direction. It just takes time. Yes, before the obvious is stated, they've already collectively had time. It's perfectly reasonable for people to jump ship and not put up with the transition. It's also perfectly reasonable to point out flaws in hopes they get fixed.

Let's just not pretend it's any more "broken" and patch-dependent than the vast majority of games available on these consoles, particulalry those with comparable dev cycles. "Playable", aside from stability issues, is entirely subjective.

/End Book.

EDIT: and I'm sorry it's so long, but I don't plan on adding to much more to that...so no need to worry about a repeat performance in this thread at least.

I agree 100% on the bolded part. It seems like Madden's glitches are 10x more magnified than the next game.

[LAKE4742]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

Nice post. I agree on most of it.

The unfortunate thing is we (the hardcore/sim crowd) are the minority so more often than not the features are going to be aimed at the casual crowd.

If we're the minority, then why are Madden's sales down so much, and continuing to decline? Why did Live 10 step up their game, and try so hard to make their game more sim? Why is 2K10 still the reigning champ of b-ball? Why is 2k5 still widely regarded as the best football game ever? I'm going to assume it was mostly casuals who were begging for handtowels (I know I didn't). While there were so many great ideas last year, EA decided that handtowels were of high priority over gameplay stuff. Child please! Anybody can join OS and request whatever. EA created the game they wanted, period. Not a NFL game. Not a sim game. Just the game they wanted.

But still, the fact is sales are down in a big way. And most of us on OS still aren't happy....for whatever reason (but mostly because of gameplay). So, does EA still think handtowels, and nine-man gangtackles are of high priority?

The hardcore gaming population is what made the industry what it is. Devs certainly want more money (who doesn't?), and to expand the user base. But, it won't last. Again, Madden sales are down. Ignore hardcore gamers, and watch videogames end up on the Wal-Mart isle, next to Transformers action figures. I don't think it will happen, though. What will happen, is another company will make a better football game than EA, again.

[huskerwr38]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

I agree 100% on the bolded part. It seems like Madden's glitches are 10x more magnified than the next game.

Yea, you know why?!?! Because football is the MOST popular sport in America and we have ONE freaking video game to represent that. That is why Madden is under a magnifying glass. It's like EA has the ball and everyone else is on the sideline (fans and other gamemakers) watching and pointing out EVERY little mistake because they are the only game in town!

[chevrock22]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

Set the packer uniforms straight with the Reebok logos placed correctly.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

Yeah and are all of those games perfect? No. FIFA 10 seems to be getting a bunch of complaints from the few posts I've read on that forum. Look at the list 2K is working on for the first patch on NBA 2K10. I can't speak for The Show since I don't have a PS3 or like baseball. NHL and Fight Night are the best sports games this year but NHL had a year off before making the jump to next gen and Fight Night had the benefit of remaking basically the entire engine and having an extra year off after Round 3.

It's not about any game being perfect. The sport in real life isn't played perfect so saying this makes no sense to help your argument.

The thing gamers look for is a solid game. That's all not perfect.

There are some sports games out there that are solid.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

If we're the minority, then why are Madden's sales down so much, and continuing to decline?

Your asking why Madden sales are down during a recession. That answers your question right there.


Why did Live 10 step up their game, and try so hard to make their game more sim?

It took Live 4 years to step up their game. Madden stepped their game up this year as well. Maybe Madden 10 isn't as good as Live 10 (I haven't played it yet) but Madden did make alot of sim improvements this year over the last 4 games we've had to put up with.

Why is 2K10 still the reigning champ of b-ball?

Funny you should mention NBA 2K10 when that game is THE
example of catering to the casual crowd and thinking about their hardcore crowd second.

Why is 2k5 still widely regarded as the best football game ever? I'm going to assume it was mostly casuals who were begging for handtowels (I know I didn't). While there were so many great ideas last year, EA decided that handtowels were of high priority over gameplay stuff. Child please! Anybody can join OS and request whatever. EA created the game they wanted, period. Not a NFL game. Not a sim game. Just the game they wanted.

They created the game they wanted when basically everything the community asked for was put into the game this year? QB throwing styles, 9 man gang tackles, Half Time & Weekly Franchise show, overall presentation, etc, etc were all added this year and people have been asking for pretty much all of those for the last few years. If those things weren't in this year then we would have had people saying "Where the **** is the weekly Franchise show?! 2K5 had that and it was the best game ever!" Basically every problem in this game like the passing game, suction blocking, and all those things, have been problems from almost every past Madden and alot of people are blaming a dev team that had 1 year to create their game (probably less than that in actual dev time) for these problems. I'm not saying I want these things in the game and I'm just as sick of these problems as the next guy but at the same time we have to be realistic here and realize not every single problem is going to be fixed in 1 year. That would be like expecting the Lions to win the Super Bowl after the season they had last year.

Looking at Madden 10 as basically a fresh start, I think EA did a good job of setting the foundation for a good, sim football game next year and a good job at giving us a pretty enjoyable game this year.

But still, the fact is sales are down in a big way. And most of us on OS still aren't happy....for whatever reason (but mostly because of gameplay). So, does EA still think handtowels, and nine-man gangtackles are of high priority?

So nine man gang tackles shouldn't of been high priority because I think they should have been. You just posted about things you see on Sunday and how they aren't in the game and your telling me you don't see more than 2 man tackles in a game?

The hardcore gaming population is what made the industry what it is. Devs certainly want more money (who doesn't?), and to expand the user base. But, it won't last. Again, Madden sales are down. Ignore hardcore gamers, and watch videogames end up on the Wal-Mart isle, next to Transformers action figures. I don't think it will happen, though. What will happen, is another company will make a better football game than EA, again.

My responses are in bold (obviously).

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

It's not about any game being perfect.

Well the guy that I was responding to sure made it sound that way. Not that we shouldn't expect a perfect game but I was just trying to show that guy that he was wrong in thinking that the devs for The Show and all those other games he mentioned didn't have the easiest time making their games like he seems to think they did.

[LAKE4742]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

Looking at Madden 10 as basically a fresh start, I think EA did a good job of setting the foundation for a good, sim football game next year and a good job at giving us a pretty enjoyable game this year.

They did set a good foundation.....for future presentation. Good job. And most are still upset. Why? Because the gameplay, the GAMEPLAY, came second. Wouldn't it make sense to fix gameplay...first? I dunno. But, like I said.....sales are down. And we're getting patches......for gameplay.

I'm sure noone wanted presentation over the expense of better gameplay. It's just common sense, dude. EA needs alot of it.

Again, sales are down.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

They did set a good foundation.....for future presentation. Good job. And most are still upset. Why? Because the gameplay, the GAMEPLAY, came second. Wouldn't it make sense to fix gameplay...first? I dunno. But, like I said.....sales are down.

It does make sense to fix the gameplay first but its not like they didn't touch it at all. You can't go and play the past next gen Madden's and then play this one and say the gameplay isn't better. It isn't where it needs to be, imo, but I'm expecting it to be next year. If it isn't then I'll play APF or 2K5 or PS2 Madden's or whatever.

And most are going to be upset anyways because like I said, alot of people asked for something (presentation), they got it and now that they have it they just brush it off and complain about something else.

And we're getting patches......for gameplay.

Just like every other sports game out, Madden is no different to that.

[Kramer5150]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

Your asking why Madden sales are down during a recession. That answers your question right there.

Is this the new excuse now?
I'm sick and tired of the "recession" excuse....did it effect Batman? nope...
is it going to effect Call of Duty :MW2? I seriously doubt it.

The reason Maddens sales are down (imo)....it's due to the lackluster gameplay,that people are getting tired of,and having to wait 2-3 months AFTER purchasing the game on release to actually start a decent franchise.

I will admit they did some things that show their headed in the right direction....BUT...this is the 5th installment (4th on ps3) on the 360,and there are STILL flaws in the fundamentals of football,that (imo) just should not be there.

I read post after post of people saying "good job EA" for patching these issues...but exactly WHAT are we thanking them for?? This is not the invention of the wheel!!...this is football,that's been played the same way for how many years now?