Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

[ennepetal]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

I think there would be some sense in keeping certain skill attributes consistent across both games and having the numbers translate into some concrete abilities. As someone noted, if you run a 4.4, you run a 4.4 on each level. It doesn't change the flat speed, it's just that, since the other guys in the level are, generally, faster than those in the college game, the 4.4 speed will only cover up so much for other deficiencies.

There are likely some very interesting things that could be done in regard to ratings, but I really don't know how they work as they stand. It does seem like they could be leveraged a little better to differentiate skill levels between players. They don't seem to have as big an impact on overall ability as you'd hope.

[havokeff]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

OK. I see. The OP wasn't clear. The complaint isn't about the drop in skill so much as the fact that it is projecting top flight prospects, in your opinion, too far down in the draft.

I can see how that could be annoying, and the suggestion of allowing players to edit the draft classes seems like the best solution as you can't expect the games to be able to predict which players will become top flight prospects over the course of a season, combine and pro days that haven't happened yet, accurately. (Considering most scouts really are just taking educated guesses)

As for arm strength being a 'tangible', well I will disagree with that. Kyle Boller has 'arm strength' out the wazoo, but he can't throw an out route to save his life. Throwing the ball far and throwing it with appropriate velocity are two totally different things.

Actually, I have wanted Madden to address that for a while now.
Throwing distance and throwing velocity should be two separate 'skills'. Velocity itself should also be broken down the way accuracy is, but with an added Outside and Inside skill. But I am getting into wishlist territory here.

[qteezykc]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

For example, if a CB say has a 99 speed in NCAA, he may not be a 99 in Madden because he won't necessarily come into the league and be the fastest player and the ratings are relative to the competition. Maybe the 99 speed NCAA player has a 95 or 96 speed in Madden. But these little drop offs should have little to no effect on highly-rated players in NCAA being projected to be 5th-7th round picks, which I think is the overall point being made.

exactly.....theres no way players should lose that much on their ratings. they should make players be busts after you draft them, not before. they also may need to bring back the training, so you can at least try and make them better, cuz no matter how much u play them in the ps, they are stuck in their potential. we lose too many good players that way

[FOREST007]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

OK. I see. The OP wasn't clear. The complaint isn't about the drop in skill so much as the fact that it is projecting top flight prospects, in your opinion, too far down in the draft.

I can see how that could be annoying, and the suggestion of allowing players to edit the draft classes seems like the best solution as you can't expect the games to be able to predict which players will become top flight prospects over the course of a season, combine and pro days that haven't happened yet, accurately. (Considering most scouts really are just taking educated guesses)

As for arm strength being a 'tangible', well I will disagree with that. Kyle Boller has 'arm strength' out the wazoo, but he can't throw an out route to save his life. Throwing the ball far and throwing it with appropriate velocity are two totally different things.

Actually, I have wanted Madden to address that for a while now.
Throwing distance and throwing velocity should be two separate 'skills'. Velocity itself should also be broken down the way accuracy is, but with an added Outside and Inside skill. But I am getting into wishlist territory here.

I didn't understand the OP at first, but this is a problem. Instead of dropping them to 5th or 6th round prospects, I would rather them have draft "hype"...this way we could really see more busts in Madden. But they also have to make hype more important and at least give you the option to work a prospect out like they did in last-gen before the draft or something.

On a side note, I believe the QB situation is going to get better compared to this year. NCAA doesn't have the QB ratings that Madden has. Things like Play action and Throw on the run were calculated by other QB attributes in NCAA. So I'm just assuming that NCAA will have the ratings in '11 that will make QBs projected better...

[thundergatti]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

show me a time in history where a top college QB falls to the 5th - 7th round. I'm not talking about a noodle arm like Gino Torreta, Ken Dorsey or even possibly a Tebow.

ANDRE WOODSON!

[cletusdog]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

andre Woodson was never a top prospect. he had some hype as being a 1st round type guy but in reality went into the draft as a possible 3rd rounder and simply fell from there. He is not an example of what i was talking about

[TheBest]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

There is nothing realistic about it. Pryor, Keenum, Two time heisman winner Landry Jones, Luck all were projected 7th round or worse and the ages are so random. Sometimes they are 21 or 25. WTF?

[ArmyBulldog42]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

I don't get this i play as Army in Ncaa 11 every year i have all american linebackers,wides receivers and quaterbacks and i try to export them to madden 11 and then don't transfer i am like WTF. it worked for Ncaa 10 and madden 10. The one quarterback i had was runner up to the heisman trophy two times. Now i have a QB that is setting passing records and a WR that has the most catches, yardages and TD's in school history and there seniors now. My QB puts up easy 500 yard games. I play on all-american. I will be pissed if they don't transfer can someone help me out here?

[eraserx13]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

importing is fine from what i can see. check this test out that i did several months ago.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...orted-qbs.html

[Herky]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

Last year the size of the player had a big effect on where they were rating in Madden. Has that been taken out?

[tlc12576]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

I'm going to add my two cents even though I think it will fall on deaf EArs.

In real life certain skill sets are universal to football regardless of position or the level it's played on. Speed, throwing power, strength, and jump, immediately come to mind. A RG that runs a 4.40 40, should be the same speed as a CB that runs a 4.40. These skill sets should only flucuate based on things like injury, age, field condition and weather, no matter if it is Madden or NCAA. THP is the same as well, Kyle Boller would be bad at throwing an out based on his accuracy, not his THP.

Other skill sets like deep/medium/short accuracy, play recognition, footwork etc, should stay the same when NCAA draft classes are carried over to Madden too but should flucuate in both games based on player progression.

AWR should be the most determining factor for EVERY players OVR in both games. Now ideally, AWR for NCAA draft classes into Madden should be based on what system the collegiate player played in. This would allow for players like J. Russell to be drafted high for their skill set but have a low AWR ( like 25), compared to Jimmy Clausen coming in with a high AWR (like 70) but lower skill sets. Progressing Rusell into a star player would seem harder and less probable in this case. I say "seem" because if he had an "A" for player potential, that would mean he would eventually have an OVR in the 90s and therefore a high AWR but it might take years to achieve. However, all this is predicated on the Potential grade being hidden again.

All that said, I agree with the OP, certain player ratings, like SPD and THP, should stay the same when importing NCAA draft classes.

[Vundy33]

andre Woodson was never a top prospect. he had some hype as being a 1st round type guy but in reality went into the draft as a possible 3rd rounder and simply fell from there. He is not an example of what i was talking about

You're high! Woodson was the #2-#4 rated QB that year but just wasn't an NFL quarterback. Alot of ppl thought he was...but he had a tick in his throwing motion, and the 8-5 season hurt him too. He led the country in passing eff. and touchdowns. How's that not a top-tier QB?

[moylan1234]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

You're high! Woodson was the #2-#4 rated QB that year but just wasn't an NFL quarterback. Alot of ppl thought he was...but he had a tick in his throwing motion, and the 8-5 season hurt him too. He led the country in passing eff. and touchdowns. How's that not a top-tier QB?

those things don't mean anything plenty of college qb's put up huge numbers in college, but for one reason or another don't do well in the pros like Ty Detmer, BJ Symons, and many more

[cletusdog]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

You're high! Woodson was the #2-#4 rated QB that year but just wasn't an NFL quarterback. Alot of ppl thought he was...but he had a tick in his throwing motion, and the 8-5 season hurt him too. He led the country in passing eff. and touchdowns. How's that not a top-tier QB?

Woodson's mechanics were horrendous.
It was a bad QB year so being a top 5 QB is all relative.

also, getting hype as a top pick the year prior to your final year doesn't carry any weight. Many guys are supposed to be "top 10 talent" but it's just hype.
as you put in your post, he had a lot of things working against him, so how is he a top flight prospect like the guys that this thread is referring to.
WHY are we even talking about Andre Woodson?
Anyone wanna discuss Ryan Perriloux or Jevan Snead

[PGaither84]

Re: Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

Why? Being the fastest person in college, does not automatically mean you are the fastest person in the NFL.

Yes, actually it does. Speed is speed is speed. There are tangible physical attributes. It's the intangibles that make a player good/great in this league. A great example is Manny Lawson of the 49ers. A 6'6" linebacker who is also the fastest in the league, or now the second fastest after two leg injuries and having Patrick Willis entering the league. He has all the physical tools to be a dominating player in the NFL, but he doesn't have the intangibles. The Madden versions of awareness, play recognition, man/zone coverage, and tackling. He was always and has continued to be a great physical specimen, but he has never really put it together. Now, he is still a good LB because of these skills and is a 77-80 OVR in Madden, but hardly the elite guy he 49ers were hoping he would be when they drafted him in the first round along with Vernon Davis.

I could give example after example of strong arm QBs like J. Russell or fast backs like Reggie Bush who all have/had explosive physical traits but have failedto be elite NFL athletes for one reason or another.

To have a College player with 97 Throwing power come import into Madden with below 95 or so THP is a joke. A running back with 97 Speed comming in at under 95 or so speed is a joke.

The way Madden used to import Draft classes on last generation was done a lot better regarding their ratings. Physical ratings often stayed the same, some times went down by a few minor points or even up a point or two to show continued physical growth. What the game did was lower the intangible ratings of players. In this generation's terms, that would be Man an Zone coverage, route running, play recognition, awareness, ball carrier vision, etc.