Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

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  • kehlis
    Moderator
    • Jul 2008
    • 27738

    #16
    Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

    Originally posted by Atomic Martian
    I think you have to look at how he was rated previously. Nick Collins has improved in every category yet according to madden he is on the decline in terms of speed, I would understand if he was aging like a Charles Woodson but Nick he should keep the same speed.
    If ratings were infallible I would agree with you.

    Unfortunately, that isn't the case. These guys do as much as they can but can never get every rating right...I would rather they re-evaluate the ratings every year to correct any mistakes they may have made rather than just continually base their ratings off of what could have been incorrect in the first place. That doesn't even make any sense.

    Comment

    • DCEBB2001
      MVP
      • Nov 2008
      • 2569

      #17
      Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

      Originally posted by judasfavres
      Mays ran a high 4.4 40. Collins ran a high 4.3. So.....
      The best official time that Mays ran was a 4.31.

      Collins ran a 4.36.

      So....Mays should be faster.

      Oh, and don't pay attention to the 40 times from NFL.com. They always post the times before they are re-adjusted following the combine. I expect that people know this so I won't explain further unless someone wants me to.
      Dan B.
      Player Ratings Administrator
      www.fbgratings.com/members
      NFL Scout
      www.nfldraftscout.com/members

      Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
      https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

      Comment

      • Franchise-Star-21
        Rookie
        • Jun 2010
        • 88

        #18
        Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

        To say Troy Polamalu is faster then Nick Collins , you are crazy.

        No doubt fastest Safeties in the NFL, are

        Nick Collins
        Taylor Mays (95 speed in madden)
        Laron Landry

        You can easy calculate that based off 40 times and Actual
        gameplay.


        When your arguement is stretched ratings, then why is Collins on the downside of the stretch when he is getting better and better every year????

        To increase everything but speed is ridiculous, hence once again top speed Safety.
        PS3 Madden God.
        Packers <3

        Comment

        • *_2k11_*
          Banned
          • May 2010
          • 142

          #19
          Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

          sorry if i am getting of subject but i do feel you and nick is in my opinion a 94 speed but the same thing kinda happened to DEVIN HESTER .... he ran a 4.27
          i think and i still believe that Devin is the fastest player in the NFL and that is not because i am a bears fan
          look at some of his highlights he just zooms past all of the defenders ... it is just ridiculous .... he needs to have 99 but now he is getting 98 this year! WTF

          Comment

          • Megatron2k7
            Rookie
            • Feb 2009
            • 232

            #20
            Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

            Stretched ratings were mostly meant to stretch the "overall" rating..... not individual attributes.

            One thing that needs to be realized, and EA needs to be called out on, is the fact that great players have over inflated physical attributes in the game just to make sure they "stand out" and are dominate players in the game. Especially in the speed department.

            A. Peterson is a good example.... Nothing against Adrian Peterson.... much respect... hell of a RB...... but 97 speed.... ???? Really....??? Come on.

            Many of the pass rush specialists ( DE's and OLB's ) also have inflated speed ratings to make sure they have their presence felt in the game.

            It's sad actually. It's like the game engine is so flawed in some ways, that they are forced to do it, just because with the current engine, or programming, or whatever.... avg speed, but great players do not shine through in this game. True Possession WR's don't really even have a place in this game. The speedy WR wins out every time...... sad.

            Comment

            • kehlis
              Moderator
              • Jul 2008
              • 27738

              #21
              Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

              Originally posted by Megatron2k7
              Stretched ratings were mostly meant to stretch the "overall" rating..... not individual attributes.
              This isn't true at all.

              The stretched ratings were to affect all ratings across the board.

              Your theory doesn't even really make sense because the OVR rating isn't a number that is chosen but is instead a number that is based on each player's individual ratings.

              In order to stretch the OVR, the individual ratings HAVE to be adjusted as well...

              Comment

              • Megatron2k7
                Rookie
                • Feb 2009
                • 232

                #22
                Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                Originally posted by kehlis
                This isn't true at all.

                The stretched ratings were to affect all ratings across the board.

                Your theory doesn't even really make sense because the OVR rating isn't a number that is chosen but is instead a number that is based on each player's individual ratings.

                In order to stretch the OVR, the individual ratings HAVE to be adjusted as well...

                I know that the attributes were affected as well with the stretched out ratings...... but I will stick to my guns on the Overall rating being what they mainly intended to "stretch".

                When they stretch the ratings, they should mainly focus on the skills and awareness of the players. The physical attributes of a player are what they are and that's all there is to it. Bad players are still fast and strong, and some good players are lacking in both departments in real life.

                Even when you decide to stretch ratings on physical attributes like speed, and strength need to be stretched proportionately for all players.

                If Nick Collins had a 93 speed in 08, and they decided to stretch the physical attributes..... then all players rated at 93 speed should have been lowered to the same level....... which isn't the case in the Nick Collins argument. Collins has had no drop off in play since 08, actually, he has gotten better each year. No injuries. No obvious loss of speed when you watch him play in real life..... so myself and many others dont understand the drop to 89 speed for him.
                Last edited by Megatron2k7; 07-03-2010, 12:51 AM.

                Comment

                • SubZero97
                  Rookie
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 129

                  #23
                  Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                  Maybe he makes up for it with Awareness and other things.

                  Maybe he isnt as fast, as far as game speed, I dont know, but other attriubutes might have gone up.

                  Originally posted by Atomic Martian
                  I think you have to look at how he was rated previously. Nick Collins has improved in every category yet according to madden he is on the decline in terms of speed, I would understand if he was aging like a Charles Woodson but Nick he should keep the same speed.

                  Comment

                  • DCEBB2001
                    MVP
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 2569

                    #24
                    Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                    Originally posted by *_2k11_*
                    sorry if i am getting of subject but i do feel you and nick is in my opinion a 94 speed but the same thing kinda happened to DEVIN HESTER .... he ran a 4.27
                    i think and i still believe that Devin is the fastest player in the NFL and that is not because i am a bears fan
                    look at some of his highlights he just zooms past all of the defenders ... it is just ridiculous .... he needs to have 99 but now he is getting 98 this year! WTF

                    Hester never ran that fast man...at his pro day he ran a 4.35 as his best time...which was better than his 4.41 at the combine in 2006. Not sure where you got that 4.27 time as an official number. Hester is very agile and shows great vision to get into the open field. He isn't all speed.
                    Dan B.
                    Player Ratings Administrator
                    www.fbgratings.com/members
                    NFL Scout
                    www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                    Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                    https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                    Comment

                    • DCEBB2001
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 2569

                      #25
                      Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                      Originally posted by Megatron2k7
                      I know that the attributes were affected as well with the stretched out ratings...... but I will stick to my guns on the Overall rating being what they mainly intended to "stretch".

                      When they stretch the ratings, they should mainly focus on the skills and awareness of the players. The physical attributes of a player are what they are and that's all there is to it. Bad players are still fast and strong, and some good players are lacking in both departments in real life.

                      Even when you decide to stretch ratings on physical attributes like speed, and strength need to be stretched proportionately for all players.

                      If Nick Collins had a 93 speed in 08, and they decided to stretch the physical attributes..... then all players rated at 93 speed should have been lowered to the same level....... which isn't the case in the Nick Collins argument. Collins has had no drop off in play since 08, actually, he has gotten better each year. No injuries. No obvious loss of speed when you watch him play in real life..... so myself and many others dont understand the drop to 89 speed for him.
                      The guys at EA admitted last year that all of the attributes were stretched out as well.

                      From http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=6677

                      "In Madden NFL 09, the WR SPD range was 85-100…CB was 87-99. In Madden NFL 10, WR SPD range is currently 70-100…CB is currently 75-99. So as you may or may not tell, the SPD range has been pushed down, in our opinions, to better reflect the “sim-gameplay” style that Ian and Phil have been telling you about all winter long. This SPD change has been updated for each position, so it makes a huge game play affect."
                      Dan B.
                      Player Ratings Administrator
                      www.fbgratings.com/members
                      NFL Scout
                      www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                      Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                      https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                      Comment

                      • SubZero97
                        Rookie
                        • Jul 2005
                        • 129

                        #26
                        Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                        You dont know who is faster, have you seen them run against each other?

                        Im sure game speed and plays during the game are factored into speed.

                        Its been 5 years seen Nick ran a timed 40, you dont know how fast he is today.

                        Originally posted by Franchise-Star-21
                        To say Troy Polamalu is faster then Nick Collins , you are crazy.

                        No doubt fastest Safeties in the NFL, are

                        Nick Collins
                        Taylor Mays (95 speed in madden)
                        Laron Landry

                        You can easy calculate that based off 40 times and Actual
                        gameplay.


                        When your arguement is stretched ratings, then why is Collins on the downside of the stretch when he is getting better and better every year????

                        To increase everything but speed is ridiculous, hence once again top speed Safety.

                        Comment

                        • Franchise-Star-21
                          Rookie
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 88

                          #27
                          Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                          Originally posted by SubZero97
                          You dont know who is faster, have you seen them run against each other?

                          Im sure game speed and plays during the game are factored into speed.

                          Its been 5 years seen Nick ran a timed 40, you dont know how fast he is today.
                          Its obvious, there is no need for them to race etc.

                          When Nick Collins gets caught from behind by 86 speed Larry Johnson like Polamalu did, then i will stop this hole arguement.

                          TELL ME THIS.

                          Why is Frank Gore a 93 speed, When Nick Collins has run him down maybe 3 times in there 2 games over 2 years.

                          Once you compare his 89 speed to other players who are obviously slower then he is, that is when this rating system becomes pathetic.

                          Example:
                          Dwight Freeney/Rashean Mathis -87 speeds . not even close
                          Patrick Willis - Beast, but is 90 speed and not faster then NC.
                          etc, all other safeties named before
                          PS3 Madden God.
                          Packers <3

                          Comment

                          • judasfavres
                            Banned
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 59

                            #28
                            Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                            Originally posted by DCEBB2001
                            The best official time that Mays ran was a 4.31.

                            Collins ran a 4.36.

                            So....Mays should be faster.

                            Oh, and don't pay attention to the 40 times from NFL.com. They always post the times before they are re-adjusted following the combine. I expect that people know this so I won't explain further unless someone wants me to.
                            Mays 4.31 was unofficial. Everyones knows that. The 4.31 came from a scout at the combine and everyone was in love with him. That the official time came in and it wasnt even close.

                            Comment

                            • DCEBB2001
                              MVP
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 2569

                              #29
                              Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                              Originally posted by judasfavres
                              Mays 4.31 was unofficial. Everyones knows that. The 4.31 came from a scout at the combine and everyone was in love with him. That the official time came in and it wasnt even close.

                              That is INCORRECT, sir. This is directly from our primary website nfldraftscout.com

                              "Note: NFLDraftScout.com uses the best verifiable 40-yard time for each player. There is no single, official 40-yard time for any player, even those who run at the Indianapolis Combine. Those players who participate in the 40 yards at the Combine actually run twice and on each run they are timed by two hand-held stopwatches and one electronic timer (that is actually initiated by hand on the player's first movement). Combine data includes all six of those times for each player, but no single official time. Team scouts and coaches have various approaches for getting the 40 time they use from those six timings. Some use averages. Some throw out slowest and fastest and then average the rest. In deference to each player, NFLDraftScout.com attempts to use the best verifiable time that seems appropriate for each player. That is the 40 time we post."


                              Now, NFL.com always always always does two things in error: 1. They never update the post-combine adjusted numbers. After the combine, the numbers are adjusted before being compiled and sent out to the teams...ie the 6 times for each player. 2. The time they post is the slowest time! They have been doing this for years!

                              At NFLDS, we get the official adjusted times following the combine...which goes back to the times from the 80s...which we have cataloged. The number that we post is always the fastest time. If you have any questions about this process you can contact Frank Cooney or Brian Hitterman at nfldraftscout.com who provides and powers my website. They will set you straight. Their contact info is listed here:

                              Hall of Football is owned and operated by The Sports Xchange (TSX) which has provided news, analysis and research for fans and professionals since 1987.


                              These guys have been doing this stuff forever. Feel free to ask them...don't need to take my word for it.
                              Dan B.
                              Player Ratings Administrator
                              www.fbgratings.com/members
                              NFL Scout
                              www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                              Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                              https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                              Comment

                              • judasfavres
                                Banned
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 59

                                #30
                                Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

                                The real question is how is Antoine Bethea a 95 and Collins a 93?

                                Collins was hurt and was limited from weeks 2-8. He finished the season with 56 tackles, 13 pass deflections, and 6 INTs. The year before he had 72 tackles, 15 pass deflections, and 7 INts.

                                Bethea had 95 tackles, 5 pass deflections, and 4 INTs playing in a secondary without Sanders which asked him to play the run a bit more at times. The year before he had 101 tackles, only 4 pass deflections, and only 2 INTs.

                                To me they should both be 94s with Bethea having better tackling and hit power and Collins having better catching and coverage ratings. Sharper should be the 95.

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