Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

[iBlievN5]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

Speed is weighted far too heavily in Madden. It overrules almost every other attribute at any position disregarding Ks and Ps. I will give you several examples speed being overinflated.

1. Mario Williams...ran a 4.70 and has 84 SPD? Are you kidding me?

So he is faster than: WR Kevin Walter, S Bernard Pollard, S Dom Barber, S Dawan Landry, WR James Hardy, S Bryan Scott, WR Dezmon Briscoe, RB Brian Leonard, S Chris Crocker, S Roy Williams, S Gibril Wilson, S Abram Elam, S Larry Asante, WR Jabbar Gaffney, WR B. Lloyd, S R. Hill, RB M. Hart, WR K. Osgood, RB R. Jennings, S S. Considine, S A. Smith, WR J. Urban, RB K. Smith, RB J. Battle, S J. Page, S J. McGraw, S D. Morgan, WR G. Camarillo, WR P. Turner, RB L. Hilliard, S J. Sanders, WR J. Cotchery, WR M. Henry, RB C. Washington, S E. Smith, S D. Coleman, S J. Ihedigbo, RB R. Cartwright, S H. Eugene, WR A. Battle, S R. Clark, S W. Allen, CB J. Burnett, S E. Weddle, S K. Ellison, CB D. Hughes, WR J. Gage, RB L. Blount, S C. Hope, S V. Fuller, and S D. Nickey?

Is that what you are saying? He is faster than half the Safeties in the league with that 84 SPD rating! It's absurd considering that these guys all had better 40 times than Mario and play positions where speed is more valuable. To think that EA isn't doing anything wrong is essentially sticking your head in the sand!

game speed. in the game he consistently chases RBs down and has great range. works for me. also, literally none of the people you wrote about are anything to write home about when it comes to speed.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

game speed. in the game he consistently chases RBs down and has great range. works for me. also, literally none of the people you wrote about are anything to write home about when it comes to speed.

Except for the fact that they all posted faster 40 times right?

[iBlievN5]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

Except for the fact that they all posted faster 40 times right?

because game speed is dependent only on 40 times, right?

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

because game speed is dependent only on 40 times, right?

I would say that SPD can be measured by 40 times. However, it is harder to effectively measure speed during a game. Speed is not the only indicator for gaining separation or running away from someone during a game...it takes MORE than speed. It takes vision, agility, route-running ability, play-recognition skills, acceleration, elusiveness, etc...ADDED ON to speed to gain separation on the field of play.

But we don't have a way to rate those other attributes do we?

Jerry Rice lacked speed, but made up for it with great acceleration and route running abilities.

Emmett Smith lacked speed, but made up for it with great vision and patience.

All of those other factors can effectively hide poor speed, or decrease its negative effect on the field of play. However, it does NOT make a player faster. They are entirely different attributes that can be made to represent effectiveness on the field without having to unjustly increase a players speed.

[King Gro23]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

vision, agility, route-running ability, play-recognition skills, acceleration, elusiveness, etc...ADDED ON to speed to gain separation on the field of play.

I don't get it, all those things you mentioned are editable attributes in Madden?
and no it doesnt always make a player faster but they execute more and do get that seperation

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

I don't get it, all those things you mentioned are editable attributes in Madden?
and no it doesnt always make a player faster but they execute more and do get that seperation

My exact point is that those things do not increase a player's speed. They can make a player LOOK faster, but not make them faster. The point is that people are confusing speed for other things on the field. People are confusing agility, acceleration, elusiveness, etc for speed. They think that Jerry Rice is fast because they always see him open by 5 yards downfield when the fact of the matter is Jerry Rice got so open because of his ability to get off a jam, or accelerate better, or get a DB's hips turned during the route, not because of his speed.

Speed is an entirely different rating from elusiveness, etc. So making Mario Williams fast because you see him catch a guy using his agility and acceleration doesn't mean he caught him with speed. There are other variables to determine how a player gains separation and these need to be taken into consideration when evaluating how a player runs on the field.

[aaronrodgers012]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

IMO Nick Collins is to slow and his catching is to low.

He had 13 INTs over 2 season and last season that limited throughout 8 games due to a knee injury.

I think everyone really got off topic with brining up Troy Polamalu on this one. So lets just get this straight now. Troy is very fast. IMO he really hit his prime coming into the NFL but not only did he get faster but he began with good instincts and that also improved. It made him look faster on tape because he played like he had more experience and would get in position to make plays.

Nick Collins coming into the league didnt do that. Theres was a reason why Polamalu was a 1st rounder and Nick wasnt. Both were physical specimens but Nick lacked the coaching, smarts, schooling, and instincts Polamalu had coming out. Nicks first 3 years were just average. He was often out of position and was known more for saving TDs after a guy caught the ball in his area then preventing the catch all together. Then 2008 came around and he emerged as one of the leagues top safeties. Of course he doesnt really play on a team that advanced that far into the playoffs and Collins doesnt exactly play like a highlight reel player. So he hasnt really gotten that recognition yet. But ill imagine he gets there with another good year.

My next issue is why only 1 guy is doing these ratings. IMO there should be a guy per division who watches these games, analyzes combines, studies game stats, and when its time to do an update they come together and share notes. Now they can focus on 4 teams each instead of 1 guy trying to keep trck of every player on 32 different teams.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

IMO Nick Collins is to slow and his catching is to low.

He had 13 INTs over 2 season and last season that limited throughout 8 games due to a knee injury.

I think everyone really got off topic with brining up Troy Polamalu on this one. So lets just get this straight now. Troy is very fast. IMO he really hit his prime coming into the NFL but not only did he get faster but he began with good instincts and that also improved. It made him look faster on tape because he played like he had more experience and would get in position to make plays.

Nick Collins coming into the league didnt do that. Theres was a reason why Polamalu was a 1st rounder and Nick wasnt. Both were physical specimens but Nick lacked the coaching, smarts, schooling, and instincts Polamalu had coming out. Nicks first 3 years were just average. He was often out of position and was known more for saving TDs after a guy caught the ball in his area then preventing the catch all together. Then 2008 came around and he emerged as one of the leagues top safeties. Of course he doesnt really play on a team that advanced that far into the playoffs and Collins doesnt exactly play like a highlight reel player. So he hasnt really gotten that recognition yet. But ill imagine he gets there with another good year.

My next issue is why only 1 guy is doing these ratings. IMO there should be a guy per division who watches these games, analyzes combines, studies game stats, and when its time to do an update they come together and share notes. Now they can focus on 4 teams each instead of 1 guy trying to keep trck of every player on 32 different teams.

Well speaking as a "one-man rating crew" myself, I can tell you that it does allow for less arguing and a more concise procedure for rating players, especially on a massive scale. The formulas do not change. However, it also depends on your sources. Since all of my data is actual scouting data from TSX, I have everything I need to make the ratings work for the individual player. Anyone who wishes to utilize a source like scouts.inc would do the same thing. When it comes to one-man rating crews, its all about the sources instead of the opinions.

[CPT]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

My next issue is why only 1 guy is doing these ratings. IMO there should be a guy per division who watches these games, analyzes combines, studies game stats, and when its time to do an update they come together and share notes. Now they can focus on 4 teams each instead of 1 guy trying to keep trck of every player on 32 different teams.

More guys would simply mean more room for "errors". Guys simply see things different...just like scouts on teams have different grades for the same players. One guys "88" might be another guys "95."

Much like there seems to be no consensus if Troy is fast or not.

Really....one guy (if that is his only job) is ideal (IMO).

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

More guys would simply mean more room for "errors". Guys simply see things different...just like scouts on teams have different grades for the same players. One guys "88" might be another guys "95."

Much like there seems to be no consensus if Troy is fast or not.

Really....one guy (if that is his only job) is ideal (IMO).

I see it that way as well.

[Maelstrom-XIII]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

I can definitely see where the "Too Many Chefs Spoil the Soup" may come into play, but if we're talking about hard data (scouting sources, etc) and formulas...that's about as objective as you can get, right? Wouldn't it make sense then to have 8 people, 1 per division to set up the preliminary ratings, with tweaks by one head guy (DCEBB, for instance) after some discussions, analysis, etc?

Not that I'm advocating that it should be changed, but it seems like it would take some pressure off of a single rating-giver, and since the process seems fairly objective (given what DCEBB has said) it lends itself nicely to delegating that way...of course, there needs to be that tweak...and if someone is a fan of the Panthers, say (and who isn't, really?)...put them on an AFC division...so there's little chance for bias to even enter the equation.

[Franchise-Star-21]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

IMO Nick Collins is to slow and his catching is to low.

He had 13 INTs over 2 season and last season that limited throughout 8 games due to a knee injury.

I think everyone really got off topic with brining up Troy Polamalu on this one. So lets just get this straight now. Troy is very fast. IMO he really hit his prime coming into the NFL but not only did he get faster but he began with good instincts and that also improved. It made him look faster on tape because he played like he had more experience and would get in position to make plays.

Nick Collins coming into the league didnt do that. Theres was a reason why Polamalu was a 1st rounder and Nick wasnt. Both were physical specimens but Nick lacked the coaching, smarts, schooling, and instincts Polamalu had coming out. Nicks first 3 years were just average. He was often out of position and was known more for saving TDs after a guy caught the ball in his area then preventing the catch all together. Then 2008 came around and he emerged as one of the leagues top safeties. Of course he doesnt really play on a team that advanced that far into the playoffs and Collins doesnt exactly play like a highlight reel player. So he hasnt really gotten that recognition yet. But ill imagine he gets there with another good year.

My next issue is why only 1 guy is doing these ratings. IMO there should be a guy per division who watches these games, analyzes combines, studies game stats, and when its time to do an update they come together and share notes. Now they can focus on 4 teams each instead of 1 guy trying to keep trck of every player on 32 different teams.

The only reason Nick Collins wasn't a 1st Rounder is because he played at Bethune-Cookman and not USC.

Once he actually got acclamated to the position.... he shines, which is shown every Sunday of the last 2 years.

[kehlis]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

The only reason Nick Collins wasn't a 1st Rounder is because he played at Bethune-Cookman and not USC.

Once he actually got acclamated to the position.... he shines, which is shown every Sunday of the last 2 years.

Are you Nick Collins?

[Franchise-Star-21]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

Are you Nick Collins?

Yes........

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Why would someone's speed rating fall in 2-3 years?

Yes........

Doubt it obviously but I think Collins still deserves his proper rating for SPD...