Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

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  • Kushmir
    MVP
    • Jun 2003
    • 2414

    #91
    Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

    "I would like to see how Colon would do against the Robaire Smith's, Scott Fujita's, Antwan Odom's, Terrell Suggs', and Haloti Ngata's of the AFC North twice a year... "

    oh i hear ya, playing LT is a different animal althogether...and i don't doubt you're right. Colon "could" certainly struggle. then again, he could dedicate himself to the game and excel..depends on the player. that same school of thinking had people thinking andre rison was gonna be better than Rice based on numbers over the first three years.

    i just try to stay away from the "what if" scenarios (to a certain extent) and use the data that's available. we've gotta give these guys the credit of rating them based on what they've DONE. i've got a buddy who HATES Dallas and tries to convince me that Romo would be a BUM without all his weapons.

    you just try to stay away from that and use the DATA that's there, y'know? i've learned more about rating players from you in one week than i have in the last two years--you really bring a passionate,fresh, varied and MEASURABLE approach to the ratings process...here's to hoping you guys will get so much attention and kudos for a ratings job well done that EA will reach out to you and add you guys as consultants. i'd be jealous because you'd get to rate players for a living--but i'd be THANKFUL as well...

    did you mean to put Fujita up there? isn't he the definition of an average LB? errr...maybe not average..how about solid?

    almost forgot, tell me your opinion on antwan odom...nothing ticked me off more last year than watching people fall over themselves to OVERRATE him because he started out fast (7 sacks after the first two games) here's a player who's career high sacks is 8, who STILL hasn't exceeded that number because he only had one sack in the four games after that and then got hurt...when i look at him i see a 74 rated player...what do you think?
    Last edited by Kushmir; 07-17-2010, 11:24 AM.
    NOTE: Any and ALL of my suggestions are specifically and only related to Play Now Online.

    Comment

    • guaps
      Observer
      • Sep 2009
      • 694

      #92
      Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

      Originally posted by Donny_Moore
      53 players per team x 32 teams = 1696 players on the 32 NFL teams in Madden 11

      +300 free agent players in the game....grand total of 1996 players in Madden 11.

      According to your calculations, there are 121 90+ OVR players in Madden 11 (6%). 121 / 1996 = 6%

      So 6% of all players in Madden 11 being 90+ OVR is ludicrous to everyone?

      What would you like to see that % be?

      I believe if you went back to Madden 09, the number was something like 250+ players over 90+ OVR. I will have to dig that up to make sure my facts are accurate... So at the very least, significant improvements have been made (over last few iterations of Madden) to make sure we weren't handing 90+ OVR's out to every single guy who made a Pro Bowl in his career. Now to be honest, 6% of the entire league at 90+ does not sound insane in the least bit to me. Seems somewhat reasonable.
      I can't agree with you on that - 6% of the league having 90+ overall seems ridiculous to me. I understand that you are working hard to deliver a great game, and that you are under a lot of pressure to please disgruntled players (we all saw what happened with T.J. Who last year), but in all honesty it seems that the inflationary ratings are compensating for a flawed game engine.

      I'd tend to think of FIFA 10 as an example of realistic ratings. FIFA 10 has got around 9,000 players give or take, and there isn't a single 90+ ranked player in the game. In fact, FIFA 10 only has 34 players ranked 85+, that's less than 0.4%. Lionel Messi, who recently got awarded FIFA World Player of the Year, is ranked 90! Also the very best teams in FIFA 10 only have around 2-3 players ranked 85+ and yet you get the feeling that you're playing with an elite team.

      You borrowed and incorporated locomotion from FIFA for this years Madden. Next year please look at including the real-time physics engine from NFL/NBA and the ratings from FIFA
      Last edited by guaps; 07-17-2010, 08:39 AM.

      Comment

      • Kushmir
        MVP
        • Jun 2003
        • 2414

        #93
        Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

        lol @ the TJ Houshmanzadeh reference...TJ can drink a big fat glass of STFU, personally.. while i don't agree with him in most instances, I thought Donny handled that ESPN episode with class and logic as well...TJ needs to take a step back and see the forest for the TREES.

        i had him rated a 84 last year (he'd have loved that)

        this year? 81.
        Last edited by Kushmir; 07-17-2010, 09:40 AM.
        NOTE: Any and ALL of my suggestions are specifically and only related to Play Now Online.

        Comment

        • angels eclipse7
          Rookie
          • Jun 2010
          • 362

          #94
          Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

          Originally posted by Kushmir
          lol @ the TJ Houshmanzadeh reference...TJ can drink a big fat glass of STFU, personally.. while i don't agree with him in most instances, I thought Donny handled that ESPN episode with class and logic as well...TJ needs to take a step back and see the forest for the TREES.

          i had him rated a 84 last year (he'd have loved that)

          this year? 81.
          Sounds right to be 83 in my book coming into this season.

          Comment

          • Kushmir
            MVP
            • Jun 2003
            • 2414

            #95
            Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

            we're all entitled to our opinions...i see two straight seasons w/o 1,000 yards and a horrible team. he's been on losers the last three years and he didn't make the team any better.

            to me hines ward is 83/84 range...TJ is a notch BELOW that--again, in my opinion.

            looks like a declining possession guy to me.

            and look at his avg...last three years? (10.2, 9.8, 11.5) those look like TE averages...actually nope! dallas clark's are BETTER (10.6, 11.0,11.1) that's pretty bad...get downfield once in awhile y'know? i've heard rumors that's where the DBs are....DOWNFIELD that is.

            i quit, i quit...TJ just got on my bad side complaining about ratings like he's ever been an elite player.
            Last edited by Kushmir; 07-17-2010, 11:26 AM.
            NOTE: Any and ALL of my suggestions are specifically and only related to Play Now Online.

            Comment

            • angels eclipse7
              Rookie
              • Jun 2010
              • 362

              #96
              Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

              In his defense, Dallas Clark is pretty darn good haha. But yes, he definitely is declining. Him and Ocho were a nasty combo once, but they are both on the decline (especially Housh). Is he still a #1 receiver? Probably, but honestly not for long. I don't see him getting any better or bouncing back. Just a steady decline upcoming similar to his teammate Deion Branch.

              As for Hines Ward, I still could see him rated 86 or 87. Whenever I think his time is done, he shows he can still play at an amazing level.

              Comment

              • Dog
                aka jnes12/JNes__
                • Aug 2008
                • 11846

                #97
                Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                i think they should just get rid of ratings altogether. it would make things more interesting.


                but i rate the players (eagles mostly) on what i think they SHOULD be anyway, so ratings that are given by EA dont really matter for me, unless i play online which i do occasionally
                Eagles | Phillies | Sixers | Flyers
                PSN: JNes__

                Comment

                • Kushmir
                  MVP
                  • Jun 2003
                  • 2414

                  #98
                  Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                  yeah he and Chad were a great combo...chad was illegal in his prime. this dude used to get 80 yards on stop routes because he'd stop on a dime and defenders would still be backpedaling...it was crazy. with his speed and how precise his routes were it was illegal. i used to watch him run posts and think.."thats not even fair" he was marvin harrison with more size and attitude.

                  and what happened to deion branch? although he wasn't a big "stats" guy (has never had a 1,000 yard season--check) he was a in the 82-83 range in his prime (IMO seattle overpaid for a guy who wasn't a true #1--but that's free agency) pretty sure he had a couple knee injuries but his production just took a nosedive...

                  he's like a 67 now.
                  NOTE: Any and ALL of my suggestions are specifically and only related to Play Now Online.

                  Comment

                  • DCEBB2001
                    MVP
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 2569

                    #99
                    Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                    Originally posted by Kushmir
                    "I would like to see how Colon would do against the Robaire Smith's, Scott Fujita's, Antwan Odom's, Terrell Suggs', and Haloti Ngata's of the AFC North twice a year... "

                    oh i hear ya, playing LT is a different animal althogether...and i don't doubt you're right. Colon "could" certainly struggle. then again, he could dedicate himself to the game and excel..depends on the player. that same school of thinking had people thinking andre rison was gonna be better than Rice based on numbers over the first three years.

                    i just try to stay away from the "what if" scenarios (to a certain extent) and use the data that's available. we've gotta give these guys the credit of rating them based on what they've DONE. i've got a buddy who HATES Dallas and tries to convince me that Romo would be a BUM without all his weapons.

                    you just try to stay away from that and use the DATA that's there, y'know? i've learned more about rating players from you in one week than i have in the last two years--you really bring a passionate,fresh, varied and MEASURABLE approach to the ratings process...here's to hoping you guys will get so much attention and kudos for a ratings job well done that EA will reach out to you and add you guys as consultants. i'd be jealous because you'd get to rate players for a living--but i'd be THANKFUL as well...

                    did you mean to put Fujita up there? isn't he the definition of an average LB? errr...maybe not average..how about solid?

                    almost forgot, tell me your opinion on antwan odom...nothing ticked me off more last year than watching people fall over themselves to OVERRATE him because he started out fast (7 sacks after the first two games) here's a player who's career high sacks is 8, who STILL hasn't exceeded that number because he only had one sack in the four games after that and then got hurt...when i look at him i see a 74 rated player...what do you think?
                    The data does not just involve stats...especially for Olmen...you have to look at what attributes make them good and rate from there.

                    As for Fujita, hes an 87 presently in my system and is far above average.

                    Odom is an enigma, but still is at an 83 because of some of his production early last season.
                    Dan B.
                    Player Ratings Administrator
                    www.fbgratings.com/members
                    NFL Scout
                    www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                    Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                    https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                    Comment

                    • Leon Sandcastle
                      Prime Time
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 413

                      #100
                      Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                      I think we should be worried when you see a BIG leap like +4 or +5. I think we will be fine tho
                      "A man who won't die for something is not fit to live."
                      [B]Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

                      Comment

                      • angels eclipse7
                        Rookie
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 362

                        #101
                        Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                        Originally posted by Kushmir
                        yeah he and Chad were a great combo...chad was illegal in his prime. this dude used to get 80 yards on stop routes because he'd stop on a dime and defenders would still be backpedaling...it was crazy. with his speed and how precise his routes were it was illegal. i used to watch him run posts and think.."thats not even fair" he was marvin harrison with more size and attitude.

                        and what happened to deion branch? although he wasn't a big "stats" guy (has never had a 1,000 yard season--check) he was a in the 82-83 range in his prime (IMO seattle overpaid for a guy who wasn't a true #1--but that's free agency) pretty sure he had a couple knee injuries but his production just took a nosedive...

                        he's like a 67 now.
                        Branch was probably the Patriots best receiver for at least one of their super bowl years, not to mention the fact that he won superbowl MVP. In his prime, he would probably deserve an 85 madden rating. Now he deserves about a 73 in my book. He still put up okay numbers last year.

                        Also, I think Chad in his prime is like a 93 and now he is an 87.

                        Housh was a 91 in his prime and now he is an 83.

                        Comment

                        • DCEBB2001
                          MVP
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 2569

                          #102
                          Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                          Originally posted by angels eclipse7
                          Branch was probably the Patriots best receiver for at least one of their super bowl years, not to mention the fact that he won superbowl MVP. In his prime, he would probably deserve an 85 madden rating. Now he deserves about a 73 in my book. He still put up okay numbers last year.

                          Also, I think Chad in his prime is like a 93 and now he is an 87.

                          Housh was a 91 in his prime and now he is an 83.
                          Those three are tough because of their past production and athletic ability. I think we gave Chad a 91, Housh an 81, and Branch a 76 presently.
                          Dan B.
                          Player Ratings Administrator
                          www.fbgratings.com/members
                          NFL Scout
                          www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                          Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                          https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                          Comment

                          • Kushmir
                            MVP
                            • Jun 2003
                            • 2414

                            #103
                            Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                            tend to agree...i gave Chad a 90, Housh an 81. i gave Housh an 88 in his prime. Chad was probly 95ish...

                            Branch has hit a brick wall with injuries and poor production--i'd have never given him higher than an 83 (keep in mind thats a good rating--i have hines at an 84 right now) he was effective...but never having ONE 1,00 yard season? a superbowl mvp is nice...but alot of solid and average guys have done that. remember Larry Brown? Dexter Jackson? just my opinion tho...

                            his rating now? i'd go with 71...injuries, production and bottom-dwelling team bring it way down...45 catches, 437 yards and 2 TDs are 3rd WR numbers...

                            working on an article..."The Worst Madden 11 ratings." you guys are gonna dig it...

                            here's the link to my blog. got a few things up...won't go public until probably after Madden drops tho:



                            oh and DCEB, i'm still waiting on you to break down what makes Fujita good for me...when i totally "miss the boat" on a player i like to know why...
                            Last edited by Kushmir; 07-18-2010, 07:43 PM.
                            NOTE: Any and ALL of my suggestions are specifically and only related to Play Now Online.

                            Comment

                            • DCEBB2001
                              MVP
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 2569

                              #104
                              Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                              Originally posted by Kushmir
                              tend to agree...i gave Chad a 90, Housh an 81. i gave Housh an 88 in his prime. Chad was probly 95ish...

                              Branch has hit a brick wall with injuries and poor production--i'd have never given him higher than an 83 (keep in mind thats a good rating--i have hines at an 84 right now) he was effective...but never having ONE 1,00 yard season? a superbowl mvp is nice...but alot of solid and average guys have done that. remember Larry Brown? Dexter Jackson? just my opinion tho...

                              his rating now? i'd go with 71...injuries, production and bottom-dwelling team bring it way down...45 catches, 437 yards and 2 TDs are 3rd WR numbers...

                              working on an article..."The Worst Madden 11 ratings." you guys are gonna dig it...

                              here's the link to my blog. got a few things up...won't go public until probably after Madden drops tho:



                              oh and DCEB, i'm still waiting on you to break down what makes Fujita good for me...when i totally "miss the boat" on a player i like to know why...
                              Well for starters you have to look at his history. In 2007 he was the 13th best OLB in the league followed by 10th in 2008. Now this was primarily because of his cover skills as an OLB. In 2008 he allowed a 51 QB rating when thrown at...2nd best in the league. Now in 2009, he had a rough year. Only 37th best overall for a Saints team that was quite poor in the regular season. What helps Fujita is those 2 previous years where his production as a LB was solid. Now throw in his measurables. Ran a 4.64 with a 1.62 10 yard time...both of which are solid for an OLB. But look at his vertical and cone marks; a 42 inch vertical with a 7.09 3 cone time. Those are elite marks for an OLB...especially considering they are both better than some RBs...including Adrian Peterson. The explanation for a rough 2009 is still a bit of an enigma, but his solid performance the other 3 years warrens a solid OVR rating with great athleticism.

                              Part of the problem with Madden ratings is you have to consider the RAW and DYNAMIC attributes when calculating a player...neither of which can fully be ignored.
                              Dan B.
                              Player Ratings Administrator
                              www.fbgratings.com/members
                              NFL Scout
                              www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                              Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                              https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                              Comment

                              • Kushmir
                                MVP
                                • Jun 2003
                                • 2414

                                #105
                                Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                                gotcha..were those combine numbers tho?
                                NOTE: Any and ALL of my suggestions are specifically and only related to Play Now Online.

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