Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

[Nab_Impervious_XII]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

That's an unusual view to have. It's up to us to stop talking about last-gen games? Madden hasn't had "one year" to catch those franchises - they've had at least six. As well as more powerful hardware to work with. That they haven't taken advantage of the situation is their fault, not ours imo.

And it's not an unfair expectation either. EA is getting DIRECT help from CBS and ESPN in creating their overlays and presentation this year. If that's not enough to finally get them near 2k, then I honestly don't know what will. More time certainly isn't going to do it. As you said, they've already had 6+ years (3 years if you want to "only" count Ian's tenure).

And this isn't a last gen issue either. We're comparing them to consoles games this generation.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

I really don't think that was the angle Chase was trying to create. What I got out of it, was, he was referring to this year with all the presentation upgrades that appear to be transpiring with Madden. I thought he meant it will take more than this year to beat out the competition with presentation. I don't think he intended to hammer away at the 6yr issue like you did.

And my take on "It's up to us" is that whenever someone feels that presentation in Madden has beaten the competition, then it up to us to proclaim it.

Huh? I wasn't trying to "hammer away at the 6yr issue". It is what it is - period. At this point imo, beating out what was done six years ago should be expected. It's really not much of an accomplishment. If the game still doesn't put those comparisons to rest, then that speaks to where the game has been/is in the presentation department - nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure we all appreciate improved presentation, but it deserves context. The question posed was:

"Chase do you think that the presentation upgrades made to madden 12 will finally put the LAST GEN football game comparisons to rest?"

I'm sorry but if the game isn't putting those comparisons to rest given the circumstances then it is what it is

[bkrich83]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

I really don't think that was the angle Chase was trying to create. What I got out of it, was, he was referring to this year with all the presentation upgrades that appear to be transpiring with Madden. I thought he meant it will take more than this year to beat out the competition with presentation. I don't think he intended to hammer away at the 6yr issue like you did.

And my take on "It's up to us" is that whenever someone feels that presentation in Madden has beaten the competition, then it up to us to proclaim it.

Why would you possibly bother?

[CFTejada]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

Noticed they aren't any double teams during pass plays; will this be fixed?

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

Huh? I wasn't trying to "hammer away at the 6yr issue". It is what it is - period. At this point imo, beating out what was done six years ago should be expected. It's really not much of an accomplishment. If the game still doesn't put those comparisons to rest, then that speaks to where the game has been/is in the presentation department - nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure we all appreciate improved presentation, but it deserves context. The question posed was:

"Chase do you think that the presentation upgrades made to madden 12 will finally put the LAST GEN football game comparisons to rest?"

I'm sorry but if the game isn't putting those comparisons to rest given the circumstances then it is what it is

Then you completely missed my point and focused more on the hammering point.

Bottom line, it's up to each individual when to declare or proclaim Madden has the best presentation. He is saying it wasn't his call. That is what it is-too.

[wheelman990]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was about to post.

Wheelman, aside from increased uniform and field degradation being added back, majority of that other stuff from Madden 09 is still in Madden 11. If you were referring to the tackling, protak was added in Madden 10 and seems to have canceled out most of the two man tackles available in Madden 09. Now with protak out, two man tackles are available again and they also added the collision system which allows a third tackler to either knock over the strum or knock off another tackler to steal the tackle but risk freeing the runner. Also the tackle button and point of contact is new to this system.

Madden 09, heck even Madden 11 and the things they are describing to be in Madden 12, aren't even close, IMO.

Ya, I was actually looking at some older Madden 09 videos to check some things out and I started this video towards the end when they talked about dirty uniforms, and I thought the "all new total control annimation system" talk sounded simlular to the all tnew collision based tackle annimation system. Not so much on what they both do(I know they are different). Just the fact that Madden 09 claimed a simular named feature that honestly didn't do much for 09. Hopefully this new Madden 12 feature will be what it says it will be. I guess more then anything, I am just watching the way the devs talk every year to year....it almost always sounds like the same thing. Im not really talking features(although many times they are the same)....I am just saying the way they talk and promote the game. I personally kind of find it a big turn off. They make something like a double hit tackle sound like a major feature. In reality it's just football. I think it should be expected IMO.

Madden 12 looks excellent. I don't want to take away from that right now. I will give it a go when a demo comes to Psn. I really do hope they turned the series around.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

Then you completely missed my point and focused more on the hammering point.

Bottom line, it's up to each individual when to declare or proclaim Madden has the best presentation. He is saying it wasn't his call. That is what it is-too.

Ahhh... apologize, didn't get that you were saying that above. Still don't see how you gleaned that from the exchange below, but to each his own. For example, no one's running around saying MVP Baseball had better presentation than The Show simply because most would feel it's not true. So in that regard it's really not up to the individual to stop talking about last generation games, because imo it's Tiburon that's still making the last gen games relevant - not the fans.

"I think it is up to you guys to decide when you want to stop talking about last-gen games.

I think it would be really hard for Madden to catch those franchises in one year in the presentation department. I also think football games are at a disadvantage in this area because there are a lot more players on the field, and the pace of play is not really conducive to certain presentation elements that video game football can really highlight and keep fresh."

It's obviously not a big deal either way (and apologize if I came off as overly antagonistic). I was referencing the comment that it'd be really hard for Madden to catch those franchises in one year in the presentation department. All I said was it wasn't one year, it had been at least six with more powerful hardware. If this were EA Canada or some other EA dev house taking over development of Madden then I could see the comment. But for years, the constant has been Tiburon.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

Ahhh... apologize, didn't get that you were saying that above. Still don't see how you gleaned that from the exchange below, but to each his own. For example, no one's running around saying MVP Baseball had better presentation than The Show simply because most would feel it's not true. So in that regard it's really not up to the individual to stop talking about last generation games, because imo it's Tiburon that's still making the last gen games relevant - not the fans.

"I think it is up to you guys to decide when you want to stop talking about last-gen games.

I think it would be really hard for Madden to catch those franchises in one year in the presentation department. I also think football games are at a disadvantage in this area because there are a lot more players on the field, and the pace of play is not really conducive to certain presentation elements that video game football can really highlight and keep fresh."

It's obviously not a big deal either way (and apologize if I came off as overly antagonistic). I was referencing the comment that it'd be really hard for Madden to catch those franchises in one year in the presentation department. All I said was it wasn't one year, it had been at least six with more powerful hardware. If this were EA Canada or some other EA dev house taking over development of Madden then I could see the comment. But for years, the constant has been Tiburon.

Understood, but I just interpret what Chase said differently. I didn't gather he meant stop talking about it now, just if and when Madden does past other games in that area, it's up to each individual to stop talking about the past. Like you said, it's neither here nor there.

I agree they probably won't complete everything in one year, let alone the last 6 yrs, but I haven't seen any proof in the pudding either way to comment on 12. If the things they are adding is true and it works, I'll be happy. I think we all know the commentary needs fixing among other things.

As I said last week, all we had last year to look for was patch #4 or 5 with tuner set(tightened up the D offline), run blocking, OB catches, strategy pad and game flow.

I don't think I need to list all the features that came out last week that if they work properly, could be a impressive improvement from 11.

We'll see.

[big_larry]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

I just hope the commentary doesn't stop in play pick screen. During the play pick screen they should talk about random stuff, stuff not directly related the the current football game going on. EA needs to take pointers from NBA 2k developers, their commentary bring up stats from the previous game, and trades too.

[ChaseB]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

That's an unusual view to have. It's up to us to stop talking about last-gen games? Madden hasn't had "one year" to catch those franchises - they've had at least six. As well as more powerful hardware to work with. That they haven't taken advantage of the situation is their fault, not ours imo.

Holy emotional scars from ex-girlfriends. I think you're probably reading too far into this. All I meant by that sentence was that you guys will decide when it's time to give up talking about last-gen games. When you feel like these current-gen games are better, then at that point you all will move on -- this just seems like common sense to me. I am not the arbiter on this matter.

And I'm not trying to play a blame game or anything like that either, so I'm not sure why you think I would say it's your fault for continuing to make the comparisons. In terms of the "one year" thing, again, all I really meant was that if you consider this year one of their new -- and finally wise -- direction on the presentation front, then they aren't going to catch these other games that found their comfort zone years ago in one year. Again, I think this is just common sense.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

Holy emotional scars from ex-girlfriends. I think you're probably reading too far into this. All I meant by that sentence was that you guys will decide when it's time to give up talking about last-gen games. When you feel like these current-gen games are better, then at that point you all will move on -- this just seems like common sense to me. I am not the arbiter on this matter.

And I'm not trying to play a blame game or anything like that either, so I'm not sure why you think I would say it's your fault for continuing to make the comparisons. In terms of the "one year" thing, again, all I really meant was that if you consider this year one of their new -- and finally wise -- direction on the presentation front, then they aren't going to catch these other games that found their comfort zone years ago in one year. Again, I think this is just common sense.

lol, I didn't mean to offend you either. To me it gets at expectations, which obviously vary greatly for all of us. It's hard for me to say this is "Year One of their finally wise direction" when the same thing was being said three years ago when the Ian-era was supposed to bring a renewed dedication towards realism. Just as people were saying "give them a chance" when exclusivity was first announced. There seems to be this view that the Madden team purposely didn't try to make a good game during certain years, or that the suits kept them from making the game they wanted to, or whatever. Personally I'm sure they tried to their best ability every year. I'm positive David Ortiz, Ian, and this new crew were/are attempting to make the best game they can. I disagreed with their approach at times but I don't doubt each tried the best they could in their own way.

At the same time, the results are what they are. They still haven't put to rest comparisons to the older games and I think it's relevant to remember that. Don't take this as a dig, but OS rated Madden 11 a 9 last year. I'm sure there were a lot of other sites that rated the game highly. I think a large part of that was because the people reviewing the game likely based their opinions on what the game has been this generation, instead of basing expectings by extrapolating what might be because of what came before it. Perhaps there'd be a lot less disappointment if the Madden team weren't given such low expectations to meet. I don't think the older games Madden's compared to were necessarily x-number of yrs ahead of their time, but I think that view gets perpetrated by inferring it's going to "take awhile" for the Madden team to reach those levels. Let alone surpass them.

[ChaseB]

Re: Madden NFL 12 First-Look Preview

lol, I didn't mean to offend you either. To me it gets at expectations, which obviously vary greatly for all of us. It's hard for me to say this is "Year One of their finally wise direction" when the same thing was being said three years ago when the Ian-era was supposed to bring a renewed dedication towards realism. Just as people were saying "give them a chance" when exclusivity was first announced. There seems to be this view that the Madden team purposely didn't try to make a good game during certain years, or that the suits kept them from making the game they wanted to, or whatever. Personally I'm sure they tried to their best ability every year. I'm positive David Ortiz, Ian, and this new crew were/are attempting to make the best game they can. I disagreed with their approach at times but I don't doubt each tried the best they could in their own way.

At the same time, the results are what they are. They still haven't put to rest comparisons to the older games and I think it's relevant to remember that. Don't take this as a dig, but OS rated Madden 11 a 9 last year. I'm sure there were a lot of other sites that rated the game highly. I think a large part of that was because the people reviewing the game likely based their opinions on what the game has been this generation, instead of basing expectings by extrapolating what might be because of what came before it. Perhaps there'd be a lot less disappointment if the Madden team weren't given such low expectations to meet. I don't think the older games Madden's compared to were necessarily x-number of yrs ahead of their time, but I think that view gets perpetrated by inferring it's going to "take awhile" for the Madden team to reach those levels. Let alone surpass them.

No offense taken, and I don't mind the spirited banter since you clearly care about the series. Generally speaking, I try to keep things in perspective and keep it to year to year intervals. I'm not going to hang the past over a series, but rather just gauge the game for what it is during any given year.

As for the Madden 11 review score, take it up with Mr. Man In Charge Steve Noah -- he reviewed the game. I try to remind him about that 9 whenever it comes up. We also revamped our scoring system and guidelines since I think the higher review scores across the spectrum had more to do with how we were doing things in general than the games themselves.

[ruffdhc]

come on madden team lets get it right this year and use the real football as a standard...

[Demoncrom]

If EA wants to know how to do the halftime show in game - get a copy of 2k5 and watch closely. Still the best halftime show ever - highlights are awesome. I hope the EA makes an effort to increase the fun factor this year. I still am waiting for the time when I want to play this game for many seasons