Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

[BezO]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Please no! We don't need anything distorting the view.


Thank you!

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Admirable attempt by the OP, but I don't think the idea has much merit. IMO, the way that the passing game is set up in Madden, is unrealistic and horribly outdated (it's over 20yrs old for crying out loud), and there isn't anything that can be done to make it more realistic, if you are going to impose a caveat of staying within the same unrealistic framework. Lot of work for no reason.

From a mechanic standpoint, it doesn't work, because you don't want to change any mechanics. You have the FOW and depending on awareness the FOW is placed over specific receivers. Ok... if you don't want change any mechanics, how do you see those receivers? Are you saying that the QB will be permanently blind to the same set of receivers, every play, through out the play? He can't focus on the one that is blurred and have another go out of focus? That doesn't make any sense. You are simulating a QB going through reads or awareness at all then, it's just another unrealistic flourish added to an already unrealistic system.

Again, I understand what you are trying to do, and it's admirable. You want to make everyone happy. Making everyone happy is pretty much impossible to achieve. If you want the passing game to be more realistic, you are going to have to make significant changes too it. If the passing game was a small little tweak away from being realistic, it wouldn't be so unrealistic in the first place.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

I don't believe for a second that EA would ever implement a system that would intentionally distort their high-resolution graphics that they spend so much of their budget on each year. Accordingly, I like the idea behind this approach but not the execution; I think looking at distorted graphics on only passing plays and only in areas of the field occupied by receivers would be terribly distracting.

Honestly I think a good starting point for making the passing game more interesting would just be to bring over NCAA's system of masking the receiver icons and on-field play diagram pre-play with low-awareness quarterbacks, and also making hot routes and audibles more difficult to call with low-awareness quarterbacks.

Untrue.

They would, and already have done just that. There is FOV or POF in Madden currently. Things that are not in the FOV are out of focus. This is something that they blogged about and were extremely proud of, so they could have areas of the field out of focus to simulate POF.

Now whether that is a good idea or not is a different matter.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

I like the idea of going through a progression with the QB by first having to select the receiver then pressing again to pass. Although, in reality people will just doubletap the receiver icon instead of actually scanning the field with the QB. And a doubletap adds maybe a tenth of a second to the total time it'll take to get a pass off. I don't think that'll really make a difference.

I actually was one of the, I guess, few people that liked the vision cone. It added a lot more depth to the passing game.
I'm not a big fan of the OPs "fog of war" idea though. Sorry man.

About rumble, I generally don't play with it so I can't really say. But as a QB you can kind of feel when the pocket is collapsing behind you. Its those complete unblocked guys from the blindside (DBs, Looping Backers, Stunting linemen etc) that are usually the surprise.
I still think that it is a bigger problem that the CPU QB has no conept of blindside though and that they always gravitate to the right side. This kills RE stats. And its probably something that could be fixed much easier.

This is the reason why I never cared much for this idea. It is only slightly better than what we have, though I would settle for that, but if it doesn't do what it is intended to do, ie simulate the QB going through reads, then what are you trying to accomplish really? Come up with something that won't piss off the Madden fanatics that hate anything new? To each their own I guess, but appeasing the rigid isn't my bag.

To quote Tom Hardy in Inception: "You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling."

[s38s38s]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Any of ya'll ever use the "ZOOM" camera view? It would be nice if it was the default camera. It does pan out, but since it starts in so close (pre-snap) it's the closest thing to the field opening up as the QB drops back.

It's what I use on the occassion I play Offline, I would like to have an option to set is a default setting for Online Franchise (but that'll never happen). It makes it much more challenging as your view has to expand and you can't see what EVERY player on the field is doing all at once.

If you haven't tried it I'd definitely recommend it, it also make the running game much more enjoyable, as you feel like you're almost right there in the hole and in the traffic.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Any of ya'll ever use the "ZOOM" camera view? It would be nice if it was the default camera. It does pan out, but since it starts in so close (pre-snap) it's the closest thing to the field opening up as the QB drops back.

It's what I use on the occassion I play Offline, I would like to have an option to set is a default setting for Online Franchise (but that'll never happen). It makes it much more challenging as your view has to expand and you can't see what EVERY player on the field is doing all at once.

If you haven't tried it I'd definitely recommend it, it also make the running game much more enjoyable, as you feel like you're almost right there in the hole and in the traffic.

That's the only view I use, and I have to say, I don't think it's that great. It isn't zoomed in enough. You can still see basically the entire field with the exception of the sidelines for about 5yds or so.

It's still a sky cam and, therefore, still not what I'd prefer.

[Hooe]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Untrue.

They would, and already have done just that. There is FOV or POF in Madden currently. Things that are not in the FOV are out of focus. This is something that they blogged about and were extremely proud of, so they could have areas of the field out of focus to simulate POF.

Now whether that is a good idea or not is a different matter.

Fair point. I'd argue that the intention of this depth-of-field effect is to achieve a more realistic-looking game, however, as they are emulating a real-life phenomenon in a completely realistic fashion. I would further contend that this motivation is completely different from that of the effect proposed by the OP of distorting receivers.

Point being, I think that having a buncha distorted blotches on the field when a bad QB is playing would be extremely ugly, from my perspective and EA's.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Please no! We don't need anything distorting the view.


Thank you!

This all just opinionated discussion but you state that like I was talking about consistently blacking out most the screen something, LOL

I was just suggesting small patches of distortions in the view, after the ball is snapped, where some receivers are running routes. In my head I picture it as a small window centered over each receiver, extending out about 5-7 yds in all directions from the receiver. Not some massive view distortion taking over half the screen.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Fair point. I'd argue that the intention of this depth-of-field effect is to achieve a more realistic-looking game, however, as they are emulating a real-life phenomenon in a completely realistic fashion. I would further contend that this motivation is completely different from that of the effect proposed by the OP of distorting receivers.

Point being, I think that having a buncha distorted blotches on the field when a bad QB is playing would be extremely ugly, from my perspective and EA's.

A bunch of distorted blotches? I would agree they wouldn't do that. I was thinking more along the lines of having areas that the QB isn't directly looking at be out of focus to achieve what the Cone did, without the Cone. In that sense, it would be the same as their DOF tech that they already implemented.

This would also of course need a new mechanic that actually controls where you focus. It would also need to be accompanied by a different camera angle as it would look quite weird if you could still see the entire field, but areas of it were out of focus form a sky can.

Not saying that this is what I want them to do. I would just like the camera to change and have a read mechanic. I'm just trying to say that if they did do DOF type of passing mechanic, that what I described is more than likely how they would do it.

[RGiles36]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

The problem I see here is that the game brings up different issues than its real-life counterpart.

As a QB, your peripheral vision plays a huge role in how you see pressure around you. In Madden, that same vision is limited since we're watching the upper half of the screen. This is why EA Sports offered us the vibrating control when pressure is near, to help offset this. Yes, the whole concept of the blindside is absent, but so is our ability to easily see defenders right in front of us.

Good points! And I agree that there are certain things you'll give up in the name of it being a videogame.

I think the vibrating controller was a helluva concept in thought (I had it on my wishlist after M08), but it's one of those things that IMO doesn't translate well into a football videogame. By the time you're controller starts to rumble, it's probably too late. That, or you're not paying it any mind anyway because you're concentrating on what's going on upfield. You only have a few seconds in the pocket to begin with. If I completely ignored the trenches and relied on the rumble, I'd get sacked every time. Football moves too fast for this feature to be a difference maker.

Honestly I think a good starting point for making the passing game more interesting would just be to bring over NCAA's system of masking the receiver icons and on-field play diagram pre-play with low-awareness quarterbacks, and also making hot routes and audibles more difficult to call with low-awareness quarterbacks.

This is when I hate the fact that they differentiate the games so much. Not sure if NCAA still has it, but a year or two ago they had a nice home-field advantage feature. I even thought the QB composure mini-game was interesting after INTs...

I would love to have some semblance of home field advantage in Madden. Let me feel/see the difference when my rookie QB has to come in for the injured starter. I really thought NCAA did a good job with this.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Good points! And I agree that there are certain things you'll give up in the name of it being a videogame.

I think the vibrating controller was a helluva concept in thought (I had it on my wishlist after M08), but it's one of those things that IMO doesn't translate well into a football videogame. By the time you're controller starts to rumble, it's probably too late. That, or you're not paying it any mind anyway because you're concentrating on what's going on upfield. You only have a few seconds in the pocket to begin with. If I completely ignored the trenches and relied on the rumble, I'd get sacked every time. Football moves too fast for this feature to be a difference maker.



This is when I hate the fact that they differentiate the games so much. Not sure if NCAA still has it, but a year or two ago they had a nice home-field advantage feature. I even thought the QB composure mini-game was interesting after INTs...

I would love to have some semblance of home field advantage in Madden. Let me feel/see the difference when my rookie QB has to come in for the injured starter. I really thought NCAA did a good job with this.

Agree with this.

The home field thing might have been slightly gimmicky, but I thought it was cool none the less.

The QB composure minigame I thought was actually quite ingenious.

I wish they would borrow more from NCAA. Seems like the borrowing is always in the other direction.

[Broncos86]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Agree with this.

The home field thing might have been slightly gimmicky, but I thought it was cool none the less.

The QB composure minigame I thought was actually quite ingenious.

I wish they would borrow more from NCAA. Seems like the borrowing is always in the other direction.

I miss composure from the PS2 days. I thought it added a lot to the game in terms of playing older players who had "been to the dance" already.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Admirable attempt by the OP, but I don't think the idea has much merit. IMO, the way that the passing game is set up in Madden, is unrealistic and horribly outdated (it's over 20yrs old for crying out loud), and there isn't anything that can be done to make it more realistic, if you are going to impose a caveat of staying within the same unrealistic framework. Lot of work for no reason.

From a mechanic standpoint, it doesn't work, because you don't want to change any mechanics. You have the FOW and depending on awareness the FOW is placed over specific receivers. Ok... if you don't want change any mechanics, how do you see those receivers? *Are you saying that the QB will be permanently blind to the same set of receivers, every play, through out the play? **He can't focus on the one that is blurred and have another go out of focus? That doesn't make any sense. You are simulating a QB going through reads or awareness at all then, it's just another unrealistic flourish added to an already unrealistic system.

*The user can't change the blinded receivers after the snap. In the playcall screen, they can set the primary receiver, which I think is in the game currently, to establish read progression for the FOW.
**No. That would require adding another mechanic, not currently available, which would defeat the purpose of this discussion.

I think you are thinking I m suggesting using FOW as some kind of a way to directly simulate a QB's physical view but I am not. In real life, any QB can look down field at receivers running around and quickly turn their heads to make passes. However, that becomes a lot more challenging when they have to deal with crowd noise, pass rushers, assorted coverage and remembering various receiver routes.

What I am suggesting FOW could realistically simulate is, each QB's ability to process all of that and get a mental picture of what's going on down field. It would be more of a QB minds eye than a physical QB view being displayed to the user.

Again, I understand what you are trying to do, and it's admirable. You want to make everyone happy. Making everyone happy is pretty much impossible to achieve. If you want the passing game to be more realistic, you are going to have to make significant changes too it. If the passing game was a small little tweak away from being realistic, it wouldn't be so unrealistic in the first place.

No. What I want is to get something better than we have now. I am not naive, I know full well there is no way to make everyone happy. However, given the history of Madden, I believe EA would be somewhat reluctant to implement a new passing system that is too unfamiliar. So because EA is the company that makes Madden and it's the only NFL game, I try to restrict my ideas, within my perceived EA paradigm.

I don't believe FOW is some instant savior to bring casuals, noobs, hardcore and Madden snobs together in perfect passing bliss. I just think the important thing is that, realistic discussions about how to change the passing in Madden, take place. That's the best way to get something better than what we have now, IMO.

Expressing my radical ideas for passing in Madden is more fun than trying to be practical but has little, if any, potential of being productive, IMO.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

I don't believe for a second that EA would ever implement a system that would intentionally distort their high-resolution graphics that they spend so much of their budget on each year. Accordingly, I like the idea behind this approach but not the execution; I think looking at distorted graphics on only passing plays and only in areas of the field occupied by receivers would be terribly distracting.

Honestly I think a good starting point for making the passing game more interesting would just be to bring over NCAA's system of masking the receiver icons and on-field play diagram pre-play with low-awareness quarterbacks, and also making hot routes and audibles more difficult to call with low-awareness quarterbacks.

I somehow missed this and while I agree very strongly with this point, it also speaks to my POV about EA and change in Madden. It makes absolutely no sense to me why this NCAA system is not currently n Madden. However, if they have been reluctant to even add something from another EA football game into Madden, I don't see much chance of getting other extremely unfamiliar things in.

Hopefully, this was just a result of NCAA and Madden competing the last 6 years. Now, since they are full partners and share all core tech, maybe this will be added to Madden 13.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

*The user can't change the blinded receivers after the snap. In the playcall screen, they can set the primary receiver, which I think is in the game currently, to establish read progression for the FOW.
**No. That would require adding another mechanic, not currently available, which would defeat the purpose of this discussion.

I think you are thinking I m suggesting using FOW as some kind of a way to directly simulate a QB's physical view but I am not. In real life, any QB can look down field at receivers running around and quickly turn their heads to make passes. However, that becomes a lot more challenging when they have to deal with crowd noise, pass rushers, assorted coverage and remembering various receiver routes.

What I am suggesting FOW could realistically simulate is, each QB's ability to process all of that and get a mental picture of what's going on down field. It would be more of a QB minds eye than a physical QB view being displayed to the user.





No. What I want is to get something better than we have now. I am not naive, I know full well there is no way to make everyone happy. However, given the history of Madden, I believe EA would be somewhat reluctant to implement a new passing system that is too unfamiliar. So because EA is the company that makes Madden and it's the only NFL game, I try to restrict my ideas, within my perceived EA paradigm.

I don't believe FOW is some instant savior to bring casuals, noobs, hardcore and Madden snobs together in perfect passing bliss. I just think the important thing is that, realistic discussions about how to change the passing in Madden, take place. That's the best way to get something better than what we have now, IMO.

Expressing my radical ideas for passing in Madden is more fun than trying to be practical but has little, if any, potential of being productive, IMO.

When I say "make everyone happy", I mean that you want to stay within the framework of what is here. That's fine, but if you really want to improve Madden, why not put forth your best ideas, regardless of whether they mean drastic changes or otherwise?

If someone is wearing a hideous shirt, I'm going to tell them they are wearing a hideous shirt and they need to stop wearing it. I'm not going to tell them to put a pretty handkerchief in the pocket to dress it up. To me, that seems like a waste of time.

Obviously, you do what you want, but my $.02, Tiburon isn't likely to change much of anything (the game has played extremely similar for at least 10yrs now), regardless if it's a drastic change or an easy one, so why waste time giving them your C level input? Give them your A level input. If they don't listen, that's their prerogative, but you've done your job as a member of the community. Given constructive feedback. What they do with it is out of your control.

You never know. Maybe the stars align and they actually like something you have to say.