Is madden building on a broken foundation?

[TheDelta]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

One thing that I'd love to see come to Madden would be a real time physics engine that actually works in a realistic sense. If racing games can do it nearly perfectly, why can't a football game?

That aside, I do think a lot of the foundation for this franchise needs to be scrapped and the series reworked from the ground up. Probably won't happen until there's a dip in sales (a significant one) or competition.

You answered your question yourself. It's a matter of money, rebuilding the enging to a real time physics engine would be a lot of work, and work costs money, money no one will spend on a game that's selling well anyway.

And Madden won't see a dip in sales as long as it has no competition and those three magical letters on the cover.

[jobforacreebree]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

You answered your question yourself. It's a matter of money, rebuilding the enging to a real time physics engine would be a lot of work, and work costs money, money no one will spend on a game that's selling well anyway.

And Madden won't see a dip in sales as long as it has no competition and those three magical letters on the cover.

Just let me dream haha. Yeah I definitely understood why they don't implement a real time physics engine before I made my post. Why would they change a damn thing if it still sells as well as it always had? They wouldn't.

Here's to hoping for that engine on next gen consoles.

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

One thing that I'd love to see come to Madden would be a real time physics engine that actually works in a realistic sense. If racing games can do it nearly perfectly, why can't a football game?

That aside, I do think a lot of the foundation for this franchise needs to be scrapped and the series reworked from the ground up. Probably won't happen until there's a dip in sales (a significant one) or competition.

For starters, physics in a racing simulator does not equate to physics in a football game. The physics involved in a football game go far beyond that of a racing game, or even a hockey game. You're talking about tons of variables, from the ball in the air, how the body reacts to resistance, momentum and impact from various angles, impact points on the human body, etc. Racing games do not do it perfectly. Many simulator games limit the physics involved.

You won't see it during this console generation, for Madden. I'm not saying it's impossible, it clearly is, but the time/money involved would far outweigh the results.

[jobforacreebree]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

For starters, physics in a racing simulator does not equate to physics in a football game. The physics involved in a football game go far beyond that of a racing game, or even a hockey game. You're talking about tons of variables, from the ball in the air, how the body reacts to resistance, momentum and impact from various angles, impact points on the human body, etc. Racing games do not do it perfectly. Many simulator games limit the physics involved.

You won't see it during this console generation, for Madden. I'm not saying it's impossible, it clearly is, but the time/money involved would far outweigh the results.

There are many many variables that go into a real-time physics engine in a console racing sim. How each class of tires reacts with the pavement, center of gravity around a turn, degrees of various turns at various speeds, rear wheel vs front wheel vs all wheel drive, engine location (front, mid, rear) which plays into weight distribution, impact and damage modeling for each individual car, not to mention the different behaviors of about 400 different cars in each of these variable situations.

A football game would not be any more complicated, if even as complicated.

EDIT: And I did say "nearly" perfectly. Meaning, about as good as it can possibly get with set limitations.

[ACardAttack]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I wouldn't. I despised the previous gen of Madden

Really? Why?

[Segagendude]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the NHL series took a year off when the NG consoles first arrived to "get everything right".

Most agree Madden should've done the same, but at that point in time, 2k was done, and an NFL game was needed, so it was up to Madden to provide it.

They've been on the same foundation ever since, and all its limitations.

HOWEVER-----I personally feel they've made tremendous strides, given what they have to work with....

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the NHL series took a year off when the NG consoles first arrived to "get everything right".

Most agree Madden should've done the same, but at that point in time, 2k was done, and an NFL game was needed, so it was up to Madden to provide it.

They've been on the same foundation ever since, and all its limitations.

HOWEVER-----I personally feel they've made tremendous strides, given what they have to work with....

The NHL series didn't really "get it right" until NHL09.

[Segagendude]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

The NHL series didn't really "get it right" until NHL09.

I stand corrected. But they did take a year off, right?

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I stand corrected. But they did take a year off, right?

NHL 07 was the first on 360/PS3. It was "okay," but kind of bare, but certainly more feature rich than Madden 06 was for the 360. Now, if they'd only get the Be a GM mode squared away, the game would be a stalwart of grandiose stature.

[Burk94]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I think they have a lot to fix. It looks like their animations are basically the same as last year. That's the problem I've always had with madden every year I pay $60 for one new feature and a roster update.

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I think they have a lot to fix. It looks like their animations are basically the same as last year. That's the problem I've always had with madden every year I pay $60 for one new feature and a roster update.

I highly recommend reading about Madden 12 first, instead of simply watching videos.

http://www.pastapadre.com/2011/05/21/madden-nfl-12-features-list

[jobforacreebree]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I highly recommend reading about Madden 12 first, instead of simply watching videos.

http://www.pastapadre.com/2011/05/21...-features-list

I agree here. It does "sound" astounding within the scope of the game mode updates. I'll just have to wait and see if it plays as well as it sounds on paper.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I highly recommend reading about Madden 12 first, instead of simply watching videos.

http://www.pastapadre.com/2011/05/21...-features-list

Isn't that a little backwards? "Don't believe your eyes, better to believe what [someone's] telling you". There hasn't been a year where Pastapadre hasn't talked of Madden in positive terms, even '06 which had practically no redeeming qualities outside of the bump up in graphics. While he may have gotten a bit more critical I wouldn't trust his word (or anyone else's) as gospel. People should allow that these are works in progress, relative to their release date

[roadman]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Isn't that a little backwards? "Don't believe your eyes, better to believe what [someone's] telling you". There hasn't been a year where Pastapadre hasn't talked of Madden in positive terms, even '06 which had practically no redeeming qualities outside of the bump up in graphics. While he may have gotten a bit more critical I wouldn't trust his word (or anyone else's) as gospel. People should allow that these are works in progress, relative to their release date

Did you click the link?

Pasta wrote one sentence of the whole article and EA supplied the factsheet. I disagree this article is about Pasta and more about him relaying the information. Nothing more, nothing less. No need to shoot the messenger.

[mojo6911]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Some of those things arent up to par, but the only one Id say is "broken" is penalties, because they are virtually non existent for some reason.

Broken means that they either don't work at all or do not work as intended. Penalties have been broken/non-existent since it came out on the 360.

Ratings are not broken. Do they affect the game like they should? Not all of them, but the ratings system has improved drastically. It always makes me laugh when people say last gens ratings were better when they were definitely not.

It is funny you say this, as there are multiple videos where people have subbed Tom Brady in at CB and Tom Brady is able to jump routes and stay with Anquan Boldin. You may ask what the relevance of this is. The relevance is that a 60 ranked CB who is fast can perform like a 99 ranked CB. This shouldn't be the case at all. The only rating that matters in Madden is speed.

I

Robotic running game doesnt mean its broken....it doesnt feel natural, I agree, but its definitely not "broken"

Doesn't that mean it is broken? Weight, physics, momentum have no effect. I saw a vid of M12 where the RB was running in snow and zig zagging all over the field with no noticeable effect. Even in the SNES days, snow effected the running game.

Line interaction is far from perfect, but again, its much better than it has been in the past and not broken at all.

It is broken. Often times there is that terrible animation where lineman are just standing around shuffling their feet. This should never happen. The dline doesn't interact properly and this, in essence, makes it broken.

WR/DB interaction...to a point, AT TIMES, you could make a case that its broken, so I wont harp on that. But this years game looks like it improved on it a bit.

We both agree. Broken.

Online franchise may be lame, but its far from perfect. Tons of people still enjoy it.

No real stats. Limited settings. NCAA's online dynasty is a million years ahead of them. 2k5 had full ESPN stats on a website you could view at home. It is 2011 and we still don't have it?

Not sure what you mean by sidelines.

The sidelines don't have real players. They don't even look like they are from the same team. It is some dumbed down scripted animation every time.