It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

[notque]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

Other ratings have an effect, but a 60 OVR WR with 97 spd 98 accl will show up a 97 OVR WR every game just cuz of his speed.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

It's tough to balance.

Everyone complains if a 97 SPD WR can't torch a 60 SPD CB. But if the 97 SPD Wr has no other skills.. what then?

It's rough man...

[poopoop]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

They need to find a way to make mental ratings, and ratings like catching/route running/etc. more of a factor. Esp when the player is in control.

When I'm controlling an RB it doesn't really matter if he has poor vision or awareness, because I can compensate by forcing him to make the correct decision. Since I essentially have 99 AWR, 99 BCV with ANY RB I control...the importance of things like speed get jacked up and thrown out of proportion.

You basically get to put Jerry Rice's brain into Devin Hester's body.

I'm not sure how exactly they'd go about fixing this but it is def an issue.

[mojo6911]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

Anyone arguing against the OP just needs to look at DHB on the Raiders. True scrub in real life but an absolute monster in the Madden galaxy.

[TNT713]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

If the CPU doesn't counter speed than speed does matter. You keep contradicting yourself. You keep saying speed doesn't matter and then you give caveats. If the CPU doesn't do anything to counter speed, then speed becomes to powerful and it then matters to much.

No, no, no. It seems like you're trying to get me to agree that speed matters while also saying it doesn't matter. This isn't a "Speed matters or it doesn't" type of topic. This is a does speed matter too much type of topic. The answer is - NO - Speed does not matter TOO MUCH.

The caveat being, humans and CPU opponents that make boneheaded adjustments are the only ones getting beat with speed. It's the lack of intelligent adjustments that make speed SEEM overwhelming. Case in point: If the CPU has more speed than your team, the CPU can't use that advantage unless we completely ignore the speed discrepancy and allow the CPU's speed to run rampant.

In order to address the "too powerful" idea, we have to see how this would play out in a real football game.

Suppose you're a real life coach against a team with slow corners and your receivers have a speed advantage. Obviously, you're going to test them deep. WHY? Because your speed would be overpowering. Suppose your team is at a speed disadvantage, you must respect your opponent's speed advantage and adjust your coverages accordingly.

In Madden, you can get your fastest WR on the slowest LB on the field with formation alone. In real life, you'd salivate to get this match-up once or twice a game. But in Madden the CPU is so inept that you can get this match-up 30 times a game. So yes... Speed matters. But not anymore than it does in real life. The difference is how opponents adjust to the differences in speed. The CPU and rookie humans are the only ones that won't adjust to speed.

So when I said, people that play the CPU are only getting part of the picture - it wasn't a slight on guys that play CPU. It was a slight on the CPU. If the CPU made the right adjustments, speed wouldn't be an issue versus anyone except rookie humans.

That said... Nobody drafts slow players. Madden or otherwise. So of course SPEED is a huge factor. But not too huge when compared to it's importance in the NFL. Of course, the CPU doesn't adjust to speed like a human would. That's the problem.

Later

[poopoop]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

You guys are making the exact same argument just wording it differently.

[chuckles012]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

I take it all the people that overate speed don't play on all-madden? Theres very minimal cheating on all-madden despite popular belief and some things have to be adjusted with sliders, but at least Woodson plays like Woodson and I always am watching Clay Mathews every play because he gets the most consistent pressure and Julius Peppers plays like himself. on All-pro you can just put up a bunch of speedsters and dominate I guess.. Whole different story with All-Madden.

[bucky60]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

You guys are making the exact same argument just wording it differently.

He's been trying to say that there is no problem with the game, it's that people don't know how to play it right. And by right, that means the way he plays it.

I'm pointing out that there is a problem. And speed becomes too much of a weapon. I'm not saying that speed should be lowered, just that it shouldn't be so effective. Other WR attributes should play more of a role, the CPU AI should be smarter, etc. But there is a problem with the game.

NO - Speed does not matter TOO MUCH.

It does matter too much if the AI can't react to it. Some real adjustments are needed with the AI to counter the speed, and WR's need to have speed be less effective and other attributes be more effective. It's a problem with the game.

The caveat being, humans and CPU opponents that make boneheaded adjustments are the only ones getting beat with speed. It's the lack of intelligent adjustments that make speed SEEM overwhelming.

And I can't control the AI, so speed becomes to effective and a problem. There is a problem with the game. Speed is to dominating. The game should have the AI be smarter about reacting to it. It's a problem with the game.

So yes... Speed matters.

It was a slight on the CPU. If the CPU made the right adjustments, speed wouldn't be an issue versus anyone except rookie humans.

So we agree, speed is to powerful in Madden. And that it's a problem with the game. The lack of CPU AI makes speed to important and to powerful. This IS a problem with the game.

Glad we agree.

[TNT713]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

He's been trying to say that there is no problem with the game, it's that people don't know how to play it right. And by right, that means the way he plays it.

I'm pointing out that there is a problem. And speed becomes too much of a weapon. I'm not saying that speed should be lowered, just that it shouldn't be so effective. Other WR attributes should play more of a role, the CPU AI should be smarter, etc. But there is a problem with the game.



It does matter too much if the AI can't react to it. Some real adjustments are needed with the AI to counter the speed, and WR's need to have speed be less effective and other attributes be more effective. It's a problem with the game.




And I can't control the AI, so speed becomes to effective and a problem. There is a problem with the game. Speed is to dominating. The game should have the AI be smarter about reacting to it. It's a problem with the game.



So we agree, speed is to powerful in Madden. And that it's a problem with the game. The lack of CPU AI makes speed to important and to powerful. This IS a problem with the game.

Glad we agree.

You said "the AI can't react, there's a lack of AI, and the AI should be smarter." Sounds more like you agree that speed isn't the issue, because you continuously mention the AI as being the cause of the problem.

So to fix this issue we can:

1) Wait for EA to improve the AI to make the same types of adjustments a real coach might make in every possible situation (including the ones NFL coaches and players haven't used in a game yet). Hold your breath if you want, but I don't recommend it.

Or

2) Play something or someone smarter than the CPU.

Either way, speed isn't the problem.

Later

[bucky60]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

1) Wait for EA to improve the AI to make the same types of adjustments a real coach might make in every possible situation (including the ones NFL coaches and players haven't used in a game yet). Hold your breath if you want, but I don't recommend it.

So you're saying there is a problem with the game, and everybody should just accept it. Now that's a wrong answer. It should be pointed out and addressed with EA/Tib. Ignoring it will never get it fixed. How in the world do advocate just leaving problems in the game? Just putting blinders on and pretending there is no problem is the BIGGEST problem.

[Old Mr T]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

You said "the AI can't react, there's a lack of AI, and the AI should be smarter." Sounds more like you agree that speed isn't the issue, because you continuously mention the AI as being the cause of the problem.

If the AI can't deal with speed players then it's easy to see why some deem 'Speed' to be the issue.

Anyway, regardless of semantics, it would be great if the Maddens team was able to address the speed/AI problem in the future.

[TNT713]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

So you're saying there is a problem with the game, and everybody should just accept it. Now that's a wrong answer. It should be pointed out and addressed with EA/Tib. Ignoring it will never get it fixed. How in the world do advocate just leaving problems in the game? Just putting blinders on and pretending there is no problem is the BIGGEST problem.

If the AI can't deal with speed players then it's easy to see why some deem 'Speed' to be the issue.

Anyway, regardless of semantics, it would be great if the Maddens team was able to address the speed/AI problem in the future.

NO... I'm not saying anyone should accept anything nor am I suggesting that EA shouldn't improve the AI. They should and do improve the AI every year - in spite of the constant accusations that they don't.

I have played more than 6500 games of Madden against human competitors since Madden '03. I'm still seeing things I haven't seen after 8 years playing Madden almost exclusively. Still having to create new adjustments to defeat how my opponents are trying to beat me with speed. Sometimes it takes several games for me to reach an epiphany.

But let's be realistic... EA isn't ever going to program an AI that is smarter than a human can be. If it takes me (and I think I'm a pretty smart Madden player) several games worth of reps to lock down a tactic, why should I expect the CPU to be any better?

Maybe it's time for guys who dominate the CPU with speed to step up to the next level and play against some humans. Its the only way to get the organic challenge that makes speed seem to matter less.

Later

[bucky60]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

Maybe it's time for guys who dominate the CPU with speed to step up to the next level and play against some humans. Its the only way to get the organic challenge that makes speed seem to matter less.

So here's the crutch of the problem. Play it my way or you just don't matter. Sounds pretty arrogant and selfish to me. The "your below me, I'm better than you attitude".

I want to build a franchise playing it out over many seasons. I have absolute NO interest in going online. Nor do I have the time to wait for 31 friends to be AVAILABLE to play MY offline franchise. I want to, when the mood hits me, to start the PS3 and play some of MY franchise.

I would never tell the online franchise guys that they should stop wanting online franchise improvements, that they are just playing the game wrong. I could give a rats behind about online franchise, but I'm behind those guys 100% about making improvements in those areas. Those online franchise guys deserve it. I'll be glad to post with them and help with supporting there wish lists and desires for improvements.

Your attitude about this seems incredibly arrogant and very selfish.

[Old Mr T]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

But let's be realistic... EA isn't ever going to program an AI that is smarter than a human can be. If it takes me (and I think I'm a pretty smart Madden player) several games worth of reps to lock down a tactic, why should I expect the CPU to be any better?

Maybe it's time for guys who dominate the CPU with speed to step up to the next level and play against some humans. Its the only way to get the organic challenge that makes speed seem to matter less.

Later

I don't like playing online, I mostly play co-op Franchise with a couple of guys I've been playing with since the very first Maddens.

Speed is too much of a factor unfortunately so I'd like to see Maddens combat that gameplay weakness in the future.

I appreciate that it's less of a factor for online players like yourself, but I'd like to see it become less of a factor for offline Franchise players too.

[TNT713]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

Hold up fellas... Throughout this discourse I've been 'saying' things I've never said. While I don't mind being called arrogant, I do have a problem with being called selfish WHILE being quoted and misparaphrased (is that a word?)

When did I say anything about anyone playing online? I didn't. But getting back to your point about online play... Online is obviously the most convenient way to play a human, but it's not the only way. You can invite your friends over to your place, go to their place, or meet at a neutral location like my friends and I did before I moved to Detroit.

Regardless of where you find these humans, and which mode you choose to engage in electronic football with these humans - your experience will prove that speed's seeming omnipotence is inextricably linked to the skill of the opponent you face.

The CPU AI is the lowest common denominator when it comes to skilled opponents. Whether we like this fact or not, it is true. Users could rely on the CPU to make all their play calls or they can make the proper speed adjustments on their own... I'm sure we can agree that reliance on the CPU to make the right adjustments is a recipe for failure and frustration.

Even if the AI were much better it would still never rise to the level of adequate versus a skilled player. Once we get good enough to beat the CPU, the next challenge is a human being. Whether we find them online, in our neighborhoods, or they fall out of the sky - people will always be smarter than the CPU and therefore provide a completely new challenge where speed matters far less than our ability to adjust to it.

The lesser skilled an opponent, the more likely they won't adjust to speed. Of course, that's part of what makes them lesser skilled.

Later

[bucky60]

Re: It seems speed is the only rating that still matters on Madden?

Hold up fellas... Throughout this discourse I've been 'saying' things I've never said. While I don't mind being called arrogant, I do have a problem with being called selfish WHILE being quoted and misparaphrased

How do you miss phrase an exact quote?

This was your quote. I've also seen you in a recent thread call Madden players lazy for NOT playing a human.

Maybe it's time for guys who dominate the CPU with speed to step up to the next level and play against some humans. Its the only way to get the organic challenge that makes speed seem to matter less.

You can invite your friends over to your place, go to their place, or meet at a neutral location like my friends and I did before I moved to Detroit.

I don't have the 31 friends or the time to watch them play MY FRANCHISE every time I feel like playing MY FRANCHISE. Why do you always have such a difficult time understanding this? I don't knock you for playing online or against your buddies. But that doesn't further MY FRANCHISE one bit. What you are saying is that I HAVE TO PLAY IT YOUR WAY. That's my problems with the game's problems DON'T MATTER. If you don't like my term (the one besides arrogant) for this, then you come up with one.

Regardless of where you find these humans, and which mode you choose to engage in electronic football with these humans - your experience will prove that speed's seeming omnipotence is inextricably linked to the skill of the opponent you face.

OK. That doesn't make the CPU AI LESS BROKEN in an offline franchise. So your comment really has no relevance to this.


I'll re-post since you seem to have missed this:

I want to build a franchise playing it out over many seasons. I have absolute NO interest in going online. Nor do I have the time to wait for 31 friends to be AVAILABLE to play an offline franchise. I want to, when the mood hits me, to start the PS3 and play some of my franchise.