Draft Logic

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Draft Logic

Agreed, no reason why both cant be fixed.

Yeah it should not be difficult to add something to the code that would prevent a team from drafting a QB in the 1st round in back to back seasons but my concern is that that too could pose a problem.

If the Vikings had next years no. 1 pick would they take Luck? I would think so.

[northface28]

Re: Draft Logic

Beat me to it.

I would say try and edit Cam to be designated as a Franchise QB and see if they draft another QB in the 1st round.

A team will do a Draft-n-Trade if that guy is the Top Player in the draft.
Even if it's a position you've drafted in 1st round the year before.

Sometimes you can get more by taking a guy that some teams despirately need vs doing a straight Draft Pick swap.

You would be amazed at the Chess games that go on during a Draft.

I've heard coach's tell me that they've drafted a guy just so he wouldn't go to a team in their division, especially QB's as the success of the season are built around these guys. (including back-ups).

The issue is that the Draft Logic might not be programmed to operate in such a manner.

I'll have to take a deeper look into the effect of the designations on Draft Logic for myself.

Or perhaps label him "QB of the Future".

[Andrews85]

Re: Draft Logic

Yeah it should not be difficult to add something to the code that would prevent a team from drafting a QB in the 1st round in back to back seasons but my concern is that that too could pose a problem.

If the Vikings had next years no. 1 pick would they take Luck? I would think so.

Although QB's being drafted in the 1st round back to back years is a concern, the major problem is that Newton won the ORoTY and then they drafted Luck in the 1st round.

[northface28]

Re: Draft Logic

Neither RB's were drafted in the 1st Round.

Mike Anderson was drafted in the 6th round and won ORoTY in 2000 (same year he was drafted).

"He was plagued by injuries in the following years, not even playing in 2004, the result of tearing both groin muscles while blocking on a punt return in the waning moments of a meaningless preseason game."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Anderson_%28running_back%29

Clinton Portis was drafted in the 2nd round and won ORoTY in 2002 (same year he was drafted).

He was probably only drafted because Anderson was injuried so much.

Thank you, this makes the original example a poor attempt at justifying the logic. Neither RBs were 1st rd picks and they certainly werent 1st overall.

[northface28]

Re: Draft Logic

Yeah it should not be difficult to add something to the code that would prevent a team from drafting a QB in the 1st round in back to back seasons but my concern is that that too could pose a problem.

If the Vikings had next years no. 1 pick would they take Luck? I would think so.

Excellent point. If the Vikes struggled, McNabb would be let go, Webb isnt the answer long term and Ponder at the moment is 3rd string as he appears overwhelmed. I could see them grabbing Luck.

But I would imagine such logic would be tough to implement.

[Andrews85]

Re: Draft Logic

Excellent point. If the Vikes struggled, McNabb would be let go, Webb isnt the answer long term and Ponder at the moment is 3rd string as he appears overwhelmed. I could see them grabbing Luck.

But I would imagine such logic would be tough to implement.

If I were a betting man, I would say Luck will be playing in Buffalo next year.

Which brings me back to the OP, how in the world did the Panthers get Luck with Newton winning ORoTY? You think the Panthers would be at least 8-8 with Newton being so good. Unless the NCAA Draft Class Import's are still being randomly generated and Luck's OVR was not so good and he dropped in the draft.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Draft Logic

Yeah it should not be difficult to add something to the code that would prevent a team from drafting a QB in the 1st round in back to back seasons but my concern is that that too could pose a problem.

If the Vikings had next years no. 1 pick would they take Luck? I would think so.

If Ponder wins Off RoY, then would they take Luck? Most likely not.

If they did take Luck, would they leave both QB's on the roster? Most likely not.

Put both of these together and the chances of the discussed scenario are beyond minuscule. If the poster said that the Panthers traded Newton and drafted Luck then this would be an entirely different discussion.

The problem is that the logic behind team roster decisions is simplistic beyond belief. I'd expect this kind of draft logic from a game in the 90's, but not a game in 2011 with the advanced AI and decision making techniques available to developers today.

At a minimum, this should be looked into by EA/Tiburon as a part of their continuous improvement of the game. Not a huge issue, but not worth overlooking either.

[Dogslax41]

Re: Draft Logic

Thank you, this makes the original example a poor attempt at justifying the logic. Neither RBs were 1st rd picks and they certainly werent 1st overall.

The situation is about a high value pick being used to take a (probably) better player at a position they already have filled, that should be people's issue with the logic. A team essentially wasting a high pick, who cares if it is the 1st or the 30th, either situation would be bad because it is putting the team at a disadvantage. Do we know if this Carolina team put either the new QB or Cam on the block after the draft and got need players in a trade after?

Point it that comparing real life to a video game and trying to judge code logic against human intuition is not going to work. How about the Lions and their WR picks. How about the Raiders and their recent 1st round picks. How about the Bills and their recent 1st round picks. You can go back and forth all day providing one offs the point is that saying the logic is broken because of this is just not true. Again its not ideal but certainly not broken.

And honestly with the extensive amount of code that would be requried to cover every situation it is highly unlikely that draft logic will ever be fixed. The kickers and punters would be an easy code fix but telling a team to ignore a better player at a key position because of whatever parameters could cause more issues than it would be worth to change. (Much like the Vikings example earlier)

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Draft Logic

Although QB's being drafted in the 1st round back to back years is a concern, the major problem is that Newton won the ORoTY and then they drafted Luck in the 1st round.

And that highlights another problem -- the panthers struggling so much so that they get the 1st pick overall yet Cam wins OROY? That is not cool.

I would like to see Cam's stats on that season. Maybe this is more a function of poor award selections

[Andrews85]

Re: Draft Logic

The situation is about a high value pick being used to take a (probably) better player at a position they already have filled, that should be people's issue with the logic. A team essentially wasting a high pick, who cares if it is the 1st or the 30th, either situation would be bad because it is putting the team at a disadvantage. Do we know if this Carolina team put either the new QB or Cam on the block after the draft and got need players in a trade after?

Point it that comparing real life to a video game and trying to judge code logic against human intuition is not going to work. How about the Lions and their WR picks. How about the Raiders and their recent 1st round picks. How about the Bills and their recent 1st round picks. You can go back and forth all day providing one offs the point is that saying the logic is broken because of this is just not true. Again its not ideal but certainly not broken.

And honestly with the extensive amount of code that would be requried to cover every situation it is highly unlikely that draft logic will ever be fixed. The kickers and punters would be an easy code fix but telling a team to ignore a better player at a key position because of whatever parameters could cause more issues than it would be worth to change. (Much like the Vikings example earlier)

Dude, I just posted that Anderson was plagued with injuries the year after he won ORoTY. Then a years later they drafted Portis to fill his position because he was hurt all the time, not just because he's a better RB.

And the to comment to the 2nd paragraph, all 3 of those teams are / were terribly managed, bad examples.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Draft Logic

If Ponder wins Off RoY, then would they take Luck? Most likely not.

If they did take Luck, would they leave both QB's on the roster? Most likely not.

Put both of these together and the chances of the discussed scenario are beyond minuscule. If the poster said that the Panthers traded Newton and drafted Luck then this would be an entirely different discussion.

The problem is that the logic behind team roster decisions is simplistic beyond belief. I'd expect this kind of draft logic from a game in the 90's, but not a game in 2011 with the advanced AI and decision making techniques available to developers today.

At a minimum, this should be looked into by EA/Tiburon as a part of their continuous improvement of the game. Not a huge issue, but not worth overlooking either.

It is not just Madden though. As great as NBA 2k is their draft logic is just as wonky. It is very difficult to program a deep draft logic apparently.

[Dogslax41]

Re: Draft Logic

Dude, I just posted that Anderson was plagued with injuries the year after he won ORoTY. Then a years later they drafted Portis to fill his possition because he was hurt all the time.

Dude, I wasnt going to point this out but he played all 16 games in 2001. His injuries didnt start until 2004. Portis was drated and won ROY in 2002

[northface28]

Re: Draft Logic

The situation is about a high value pick being used to take a (probably) better player at a position they already have filled, that should be people's issue with the logic. A team essentially wasting a high pick, who cares if it is the 1st or the 30th, either situation would be bad because it is putting the team at a disadvantage. Do we know if this Carolina team put either the new QB or Cam on the block after the draft and got need players in a trade after?

Point it that comparing real life to a video game and trying to judge code logic against human intuition is not going to work. How about the Lions and their WR picks. How about the Raiders and their recent 1st round picks. How about the Bills and their recent 1st round picks. You can go back and forth all day providing one offs the point is that saying the logic is broken because of this is just not true. Again its not ideal but certainly not broken.

And honestly with the extensive amount of code that would be requried to cover every situation it is highly unlikely that draft logic will ever be fixed. The kickers and punters would be an easy code fix but telling a team to ignore a better player at a key position because of whatever parameters could cause more issues than it would be worth to change. (Much like the Vikings example earlier)

The only thing I agree with is such logic would be hard to implement. Your arguments for DET, BUF, and OAK drafts dont make much sense. No player was coming off OROTY seasons for any of those teams, none were QBs, and none were no 1 overall selections. (hold for Jamarcus Russell, who was still given lots of chances)

I guess we will have to see if Cam or Luck were dealt postdraft. This isnt a dealbreaker because I never believe it was truly "fixed" but hopefully it can be tuned to some degree.

[Dogslax41]

Re: Draft Logic

The only thing I agree with is such logic would be hard to implement. Your arguments for DET, BUF, and OAK drafts dont make much sense. No player was coming off OROTY seasons for any of those teams, none were QBs, and none were no 1 overall selections.

I guess we will have to see if Cam or Luck were dealt postdraft. This isnt a dealbreaker because I never believe it was truly "fixed" but hopefully it can be tuned to some degree.

Don't make sense? All examples of teams doing things that analyst logic said was detrimental to their franchise. What is the problem with broken draft logic? To me its about the drafting team being put at a disadvantage and unbalancing the competitive advantage in your franchise because their picks are wasted while your controlled team can feast on values due to improper logic. If this results in them getting a better QB then, while not perfect becuase they surely have other positions that they need, I don't even remotely consider this broken.

[Andrews85]

Re: Draft Logic

Dude, I wasnt going to point this out but he played all 16 games in 2001. His injuries didnt start until 2004. Portis was drated and won ROY in 2002

I guess you're right about Anderson, dude lol. But regardless, the Denver RB situation in the early 2000's and Carolina QB situation on Madden 12 are not as closely related as you claim. 2 QB's going #1 in back to back years vs a 6th round and 2nd round 2 years apart.