Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

[dfos81]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

I think Dpp can really give guys that all or nothing type game.
1 game Orakpo will be lucky to have 3 solo tackles. Then the next game I start being more focused on freeing him up or getting him matched up on the weak links and he has gone off for 3.5 sacks, Ff, 8 solo!
This is w/o user controlling him lol.
So its kinda like Qbs, the Dpp can really change things from game to game.

Some guys just gotta try different ways of playing bc if you keep doing the same style of playing and its not working, well that's the definition of insanity.
It's a video game and I think some of us forget that @ times, including me.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

There are no sliders for online franchise. Just default

Mostly everyone whos been saying this issue is fixed for them with sliders, agrees its a problem online and with default sliders.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

Mostly everyone whos been saying this issue is fixed for them with sliders, agrees its a problem online and with default sliders.

No, it's because he chooses not to understand the real problem. He believes that you can never expect to get pressure unless you blitz. Once that was said it became clear there was no other reason to continue discussing this.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

No, it's because he chooses not to understand the real problem. He believes that you can never expect to get pressure unless you blitz. Once that was said it became clear there was no other reason to continue discussing this.

No I made that post because he said that people not having issues must be using sliders.... There are no sliders in online franchise and with the data we have compiled it does not show that dt get more sacks/pass rush. My point is that it is most likely how you use the players and the adjustments that are made (or lack there of). If only a small percentage are having an problems but the majority are not then where does this issue stand? It's a stalemate then. If someone claims the pass rush is broken yet there is data showing it isn't then what? I can't explain why someone is not able to generate pass rush from their ends when it seems like the majority is not having the same issue... Only explaination I can think of is its a user issue.

[dfos81]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

No I made that post because he said that people not having issues must be using sliders.... There are no sliders in online franchise and with the data we have compiled it does not show that dt get more sacks/pass rush. My point is that it is most likely how you use the players and the adjustments that are made (or lack there of). If only a small percentage are having an problems but the majority are not then where does this issue stand? It's a stalemate then. If someone claims the pass rush is broken yet there is data showing it isn't then what? I can't explain why someone is not able to generate pass rush from their ends when it seems like the majority is not having the same issue... Only explaination I can think of is its a user issue.

Well said,
So far its 2 w/ the issue and 30 w/o the issue.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

No I made that post because he said that people not having issues must be using sliders.... There are no sliders in online franchise and with the data we have compiled it does not show that dt get more sacks/pass rush. My point is that it is most likely how you use the players and the adjustments that are made (or lack there of). If only a small percentage are having an problems but the majority are not then where does this issue stand? It's a stalemate then. If someone claims the pass rush is broken yet there is data showing it isn't then what? I can't explain why someone is not able to generate pass rush from their ends when it seems like the majority is not having the same issue... Only explaination I can think of is its a user issue.

How have you compiled all of that data? Do you mind sharing it instead of just talking about it?

[dfos81]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

This has to be my biggest complaint with the game.

No matter how we set the sliders, its impossible to see a realistic pass rush.

Its either watch the DE's get manhandled continously, or watch the DT's bust through the line continously...no happy middle ground.

I made a thread about this in the NCAA 12 forum as well...because both games have the exact same flaw:

So far its been you and few other guys(if that) w/ this issue offline, 1 video doesnt prove its the "biggest complaint". Maybe the biggest complaint from you.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

So far its been you and few other guys(if that) w/ this issue, 1 video doesnt prove its the "biggest complaint". Maybe the biggest complaint from you.

I clearly said "my biggest complaint", so obviously from me.

[pegout]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

i could run some test iv been using coaching schemes and priorites for 8 years in one franchise all games played reg and post season (redskins) and 2 years with bengals in a different one,using the same sliders and schemes.
my first year with the skins i used the reg priories and only got sacks and any pressure from my dt's, since iv moved the dt's and de's priority to 0 and style to run for hum for an 34 d iv got a noticable change in how they play r.kerrigen and brian orakpo(100 priority whole time) have lead my team in sacks i think ill have to make sure 6 out of the 7 other years.
in my bengle's franchise i ran a 34 the first year were my rlb had 6.5 sacks,mlb had 2 llb had 9,my le and re both had 5.5 and my dt had 2.5. my second year iv been running multiple d im only 10 games in but so far every things looks right for the 43 i move my llb to the le spot and he gets good pressure.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

No I made that post because he said that people not having issues must be using sliders.... There are no sliders in online franchise and with the data we have compiled it does not show that dt get more sacks/pass rush. My point is that it is most likely how you use the players and the adjustments that are made (or lack there of). If only a small percentage are having an problems but the majority are not then where does this issue stand? It's a stalemate then. If someone claims the pass rush is broken yet there is data showing it isn't then what? I can't explain why someone is not able to generate pass rush from their ends when it seems like the majority is not having the same issue... Only explaination I can think of is its a user issue.

Actually, you are wrong again - surprise. In my online franchise, I compiled plenty of sacks with Tuck and JPP. Sacks do not simply equal pressure. If I blitz I can get tuck and JPP free to get to the QB. That's not what is being discussed here. Your data is taking a slanted look at the situation and then you are trying to use that data to back YOUR claim, which happens to be entirely incorrect. Pressure and disruption is not quantified simply by adding up the number of sacks. The fact of the matter is, the DTs get the most PRESSURE and cause the most disruption. The number of sacks doesn't equate to what pressure is. If you look at how finesse DEs (elite ones anyway) try to get to the QB, they get no push or lean on the tackle. They play patty cake with him and simply get stonewalled. Blitzing is a whole different animal. If I have a team with a front 4 like the Giants or the Lions, the whole strength of that front 4 is to cause disruption WITHOUT blitzing. It has nothing to do with user ability. I had 15 sacks in season 1 with Tuck and 11 with JPP. In season 2 Tuck had 14 through 11 games before getting hurt. That doesn't mean anything when trying to understand this issue. Just because he got the sacks doesn't mean he's getting them by fighting his way to the QB. Wanting to stick up for the game because it's your favorite game and you are an EA game changer is rearing its ugly head here. This has been a well known issue for a long time. Those of us who actually understand the sport realize it's broken.

Carry on...

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

Actually, you are wrong again - surprise. In my online franchise, I compiled plenty of sacks with Tuck and JPP. Sacks do not simply equal pressure. If I blitz I can get tuck and JPP free to get to the QB. That's not what is being discussed here. Your data is taking a slanted look at the situation and then you are trying to use that data to back YOUR claim, which happens to be entirely incorrect. Pressure and disruption is not quantified simply by adding up the number of sacks. The fact of the matter is, the DTs get the most PRESSURE and cause the most disruption. The number of sacks doesn't equate to what pressure is. If you look at how finesse DEs (elite ones anyway) try to get to the QB, they get no push or lean on the tackle. They play patty cake with him and simply get stonewalled. Blitzing is a whole different animal. If I have a team with a front 4 like the Giants or the Lions, the whole strength of that front 4 is to cause disruption WITHOUT blitzing. It has nothing to do with user ability. I had 15 sacks in season 1 with Tuck and 11 with JPP. In season 2 Tuck had 14 through 11 games before getting hurt. That doesn't mean anything when trying to understand this issue. Just because he got the sacks doesn't mean he's getting them by fighting his way to the QB. Wanting to stick up for the game because it's your favorite game and you are an EA game changer is rearing its ugly head here. This has been a well known issue for a long time. Those of us who actually understand the sport realize it's broken.

Carry on...

Wow way to try and cheap shot... Very immature. So in other words if someone doesn't agree with your opinion then they are wrong?

Stats don't lie. Your perception is skewed. You are assuming that the way people are racking up sacks is not "pressure". Then how do they get there without pressure? Look at the top 35 sack totals and also look at how many are finesse rushers, then count how many dt are up there. Those are user controlled teams for the most part. If you feel you should just be able to call the play and watch your dline dominate without making on the fly adjustments then Im gonna have to figure out what sport you are trying to emulate so we can find some sort of conclusion to this. Poorly attempted cheap shots aren't the answer.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

Wow way to try and cheap shot... Very immature. So in other words if someone doesn't agree with your opinion then they are wrong?

Stats don't lie. Your perception is skewed. You are assuming that the way people are racking up sacks is not "pressure". Then how do they get there without pressure? Look at the top 35 sack totals and also look at how many are finesse rushers, then count how many dt are up there. Those are user controlled teams for the most part. If you feel you should just be able to call the play and watch your dline dominate without making on the fly adjustments then Im gonna have to figure out what sport you are trying to emulate so we can find some sort of conclusion to this. Poorly attempted cheap shots aren't the answer.

It's not a cheap shot - You are always coming in and claiming that folks don't know what they are doing and that's why they aren't seeing "pressure". You right away assume sacks == pressure. I don't see any posts at all that say the ends should get there every time. I can tell you, if you don't blitz and you have a 4 man rush with an elite line, you won't get any pressure on the QB, and if you are playing against a decent player, he'll be able to get rid of the ball easily. There needs to be a much more realistic balance between the pressure coming from the d line and the pressure coming from blitzes.

[jyoung]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

DTs don't get sacks in this game because they are slow and QBs easily outrun them by sprinting.

The CPU AI is programmed to NOT use the sprint button when pass rushing the QB. This has been programmed into Madden at least since Madden 10. Maybe earlier, but that was when I first started playing the series on this generation of consoles.

This is extremely noticeable if you switch to user control a DT who has come free and watch him get a "speed boost" just because he is now controlled by a human player. Humans use the sprint button going after the QB, CPU AI pass rushers do not.

This doesn't negate the fact that DTs come free and generate pressure more often Madden.

It just means they don't finish the sack due to lack of speed/sprinting.

[dfos81]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

i could run some test iv been using coaching schemes and priorites for 8 years in one franchise all games played reg and post season (redskins) and 2 years with bengals in a different one,using the same sliders and schemes.
my first year with the skins i used the reg priories and only got sacks and any pressure from my dt's, since iv moved the dt's and de's priority to 0 and style to run for hum for an 34 d iv got a noticable change in how they play r.kerrigen and brian orakpo(100 priority whole time) have lead my team in sacks i think ill have to make sure 6 out of the 7 other years.
in my bengle's franchise i ran a 34 the first year were my rlb had 6.5 sacks,mlb had 2 llb had 9,my le and re both had 5.5 and my dt had 2.5. my second year iv been running multiple d im only 10 games in but so far every things looks right for the 43 i move my llb to the le spot and he gets good pressure.

See gametape keeps saying offline sliders, priority, etc doesn't change it. Hmmm :



Give this dude a Special Edition M13 EA let'em pick how many sacks he wants from DEs before each game lol.

[GameTape]

Re: Not enough pressure from DE's, too much pressure from DT's

i could run some test iv been using coaching schemes and priorites for 8 years in one franchise all games played reg and post season (redskins) and 2 years with bengals in a different one,using the same sliders and schemes.
my first year with the skins i used the reg priories and only got sacks and any pressure from my dt's, since iv moved the dt's and de's priority to 0 and style to run for hum for an 34 d iv got a noticable change in how they play r.kerrigen and brian orakpo(100 priority whole time) have lead my team in sacks i think ill have to make sure 6 out of the 7 other years.
in my bengle's franchise i ran a 34 the first year were my rlb had 6.5 sacks,mlb had 2 llb had 9,my le and re both had 5.5 and my dt had 2.5. my second year iv been running multiple d im only 10 games in but so far every things looks right for the 43 i move my llb to the le spot and he gets good pressure.

Its already been discussed that this issue doesnt apply to 3-4 defense, because 3-4 defense involves alot of blitzing which frees up the OLB.

This issue is only about 4-3 defense with no blitzing.