Run/Pass Commit In Madden NFL 13 - Make it More Realistic

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  • Tyrant8RDFL
    MVP
    • Feb 2004
    • 3563

    #16
    Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

    I kind of like the way they have it and this is why. It is a commitment that the defense is making to stop a play. This is why you can't over use this feature at all, and only use it when you absolutely sure.

    Like in long yardage situations and long.

    To make this thing work with better awareness and assignments will only be abused and make everyone use this feature in calling a defense. Thus making players better at calling a defense then what they really are.

    Calling your defense should be totally about your play calling , and not a commit feature.

    I like it that it is all or nothing, so this way it can't be abused.

    By leaving it this way it really makes you hesitant on calling a run commit to any side, because if you guess wrong then your burnt, and bedfast of this many won't use it as much and trust to calling a more balanced run defense. I think they should not touch it and leave it the way it is.

    In the end you don’t have to use it all, and just call your defense. I would love to play someone who uses it every down. By making it better to the point that the defense is smarter with it will only make things worse, and make bad pay callers better. That to me defeats the purpose of play calling.
    Simply *Magic* Just click the link and Watch :)
    http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2043715147

    Comment

    • huskerwr38
      MVP
      • Mar 2009
      • 1549

      #17
      Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

      Originally posted by PGaither84
      And I think that's why you and I weren't invited back to CD events

      I couldn't "like" that comment hard enough, so I made this post to say thank you even more.
      I was just going to ask if Bezo, LBzrule, and KBLover were gamechangers because if not they should be. They seem to get "it" and know the game of football better than anyone on this board. They always give great constructive criticism in an easy to understand manner.

      Comment

      • SteelerSpartan
        MVP
        • Apr 2007
        • 2884

        #18
        Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

        The way they had run commit in NCAA was cheesy IMO...To me it made guys get off their blocks better....So I made a rule for myself to never use it to make the game more challenging


        Pass Commit didn't seem to have any over the top-ness about it
        Here We Go Steelers!!! Here We Go!!!

        My CFB Teams:
        Marshall..WVU-Go Herd/Eeers!!!


        Comment

        • LBzrule
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jul 2002
          • 13085

          #19
          Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

          Originally posted by Tyrant8RDFL
          I kind of like the way they have it and this is why. It is a commitment that the defense is making to stop a play. This is why you can't over use this feature at all, and only use it when you absolutely sure.

          Like in long yardage situations and long.

          To make this thing work with better awareness and assignments will only be abused and make everyone use this feature in calling a defense. Thus making players better at calling a defense then what they really are.

          Calling your defense should be totally about your play calling , and not a commit feature.

          I like it that it is all or nothing, so this way it can't be abused.

          By leaving it this way it really makes you hesitant on calling a run commit to any side, because if you guess wrong then your burnt, and bedfast of this many won't use it as much and trust to calling a more balanced run defense. I think they should not touch it and leave it the way it is.

          In the end you don’t have to use it all, and just call your defense. I would love to play someone who uses it every down. By making it better to the point that the defense is smarter with it will only make things worse, and make bad pay callers better. That to me defeats the purpose of play calling.
          I'm going to ask this question. Which defensive coordinator installs and teaches their defense this way? Who makes these kinds of calls? Do guys actually understand what goes into an NFL, NCAA, High School defense on the snap of the football? It is not what you guys are saying. Here is the problem with Madden and just calling a defense, it's exactly what you get when you use this feature as it is right now. Arbitrariness and freelancing. That's not good defensive principles.

          Second, using this as a part of the play call would actually add what is missing from the game that needs to be there anyway. If you have played 2k this would be still similar to that in play call terms. In 2k you just had tied play calling. In here you would just be calling that stunt right before the snap at the line. You still can make the wrong call and be outmanned on the back side. It's just that gap principles would be in place. Nobody coaches all or nothing defense. And Madden should not be promoting that. Somebody tell me who does that?

          I don't see how this defeats the purpose of play calling when what is here is actually a part of any NFL defensive snap. Also this is not about abuse. This is about what people say they want, realism. Do you guys want that or not? Or do you want to keep going with EA's all or nothing unrealistic way features work that does not match up to the way Defensive Coordinators install and call defenses?
          Last edited by LBzrule; 06-11-2012, 02:36 PM.

          Comment

          • LBzrule
            Hall Of Fame
            • Jul 2002
            • 13085

            #20
            Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

            Originally posted by SteelerSpartan
            The way they had run commit in NCAA was cheesy IMO...To me it made guys get off their blocks better....So I made a rule for myself to never use it to make the game more challenging


            Pass Commit didn't seem to have any over the top-ness about it
            Right and that's exactly the reason why I started this thread. The way it is right now IMO is stupid. Just because you go commit right does not mean that any run to the right should automatically be stopped. What it means is you should have the edge set on that side and certain gaps manned. It also means your Linebackers cannot just run to the edge because if they do then runs like wide and inside zones should kill it with the cutback. Cutback runs are what kills defenses. EA has to get away from the all or nothing game play.

            Lastly for pass commit you are correct and I think it would be a great way for us to have a different pass rush angle by our DE's to run wider and engage deeper in the backfield than just the normal ways they have it now.

            I'm just going based off NCAA, If Madden is anything like that game A.I wise then we are in trouble. You can have all the beautiful tackling all you want, but fundamental areas of the game are still messed up and this can be a "band-aid" way to fix them until they can get the code in the game another way.
            Last edited by LBzrule; 06-11-2012, 02:34 PM.

            Comment

            • K_GUN
              C*t*z*n *f RSN
              • Jul 2002
              • 3891

              #21
              Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

              Originally posted by LBzrule
              I'm going to ask this question. Which defensive coordinator installs and teaches their defense this way? Who makes these kinds of calls? Do guys actually understand what goes into an NFL, NCAA, High School defense on the snap of the football? It is not what you guys are saying. Here is the problem with Madden and just calling a defense, it's exactly what you get when you use this feature as it is right now. Arbitrariness and freelancing. That's not good defensive principles.

              Second, using this as a part of the play call would actually add what is missing from the game that needs to be there anyway. If you have played 2k this would be still similar to that in play call terms. In 2k you just had tied play calling. In here you would just be calling that stunt right before the snap at the line. You still can make the wrong call and be outmanned on the back side. It's just that gap principles would be in place. Nobody coaches all or nothing defense. And Madden should not be promoting that. Somebody tell me who does that?

              I don't see how this defeats the purpose of play calling when what is here is actually a part of any NFL defensive snap. Also this is not about abuse. This is about what people say they want, realism. Do you guys want that or not? Or do you want to keep going with EA's all or nothing unrealistic way features work that does not match up to the way Defensive Coordinators install and call defenses?
              the problem with your philosophy is this...a ton of guys like myself have never played 1 SNAP of organized football (I'm built like Dustin Pedroia)...so i have no idea about the basic principle of football....and quite frankly at the age of 41 dont care...I just want to play a realistic game of football--not an *NFL Blitz* style of game....so for guys like us....should we not be *allowed* to play/want to play a game of videogame football?...kinda sounds like it with some of your posts
              Bummed that you're not on my ignore list yet?.....Don't worry, I'm sure you will be very soon.

              Comment

              • OG_McNabb
                Pro
                • Jul 2004
                • 552

                #22
                Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                Originally posted by LBzrule
                Good Stuff
                Good post, but I'd really like to know where you got the play diagram program. Is it free?

                Comment

                • Bootzilla
                  MVP
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 1433

                  #23
                  Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                  Originally posted by Tyrant8RDFL
                  I kind of like the way they have it and this is why. It is a commitment that the defense is making to stop a play. This is why you can't over use this feature at all, and only use it when you absolutely sure.

                  Like in long yardage situations and long.

                  To make this thing work with better awareness and assignments will only be abused and make everyone use this feature in calling a defense. Thus making players better at calling a defense then what they really are.

                  Calling your defense should be totally about your play calling , and not a commit feature.

                  I like it that it is all or nothing, so this way it can't be abused.

                  By leaving it this way it really makes you hesitant on calling a run commit to any side, because if you guess wrong then your burnt, and bedfast of this many won't use it as much and trust to calling a more balanced run defense. I think they should not touch it and leave it the way it is.

                  In the end you don’t have to use it all, and just call your defense. I would love to play someone who uses it every down. By making it better to the point that the defense is smarter with it will only make things worse, and make bad pay callers better. That to me defeats the purpose of play calling.
                  I totally agree with your reasoning. I believe the play call itself should cover all of the gap responsibilities and necessary fits as intended and the commits should be used more so as gambles or calculated risks. If its 3rd and short and I want to sell out on a run up the middle and I get play-actioned that's the risk I take. But, if I want to stop that run generally I will have to commit to it either by play call or added emphasis i.e. run commit. Same goes for pass commit. If its 3rd and long and I get screened or drawed, such is life.

                  Honestly, committing your run defense to any side is risky but, is it doing that much more than crashing your line or linebackers in one direction or another? I really don't know. Since the game itself isn't able to read keys or truly adjust to down and distance I'm fine with the way run/pass commit is implemented; as a tool to sell out in obvious down and distance situations. High risk, high reward. For everything else, the standard play call should suffice.

                  Comment

                  • GiantBlue76
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 3287

                    #24
                    Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                    Originally posted by K_GUN
                    the problem with your philosophy is this...a ton of guys like myself have never played 1 SNAP of organized football (I'm built like Dustin Pedroia)...so i have no idea about the basic principle of football....and quite frankly at the age of 41 dont care...I just want to play a realistic game of football--not an *NFL Blitz* style of game....so for guys like us....should we not be *allowed* to play/want to play a game of videogame football?...kinda sounds like it with some of your posts
                    How would implementing this properly affect your ability to play the game any differently? What he is saying is that the AI of the players would actually be handling their assignments correctly when you choose to run or pass commit. It doesn't necessarily add more complexity to what you have to understand. If you are going to call run commit, you are still guessing run based on what you might see at the line, even if you don't fully understand what the proper assignments would be, why would it affect you any differently than it does now? It may actually help people learn more about the x's and o's of the real game (after all, that is what a simulation is supposed to be) on top of the fact that people will start to understand the different fronts used by teams and WHY they use them. Simply putting in the over/under fronts for the 4-3 is completely pointless in Madden, because the players do not handle their proper gap assignments anyway. The only difference between the 4-3 under, over and stacks in Madden (for example) is that they look different. The players all do the same thing anyway. This is also the case with fronts like the wide 9. Big deal, the DE is now lined up wide, but won't be handling his assignment any differently. He'll be running in a straight line directly into his blocker like all line man in Madden.

                    Adding in this logic would make Madden 100x better than it is, and at the same time, it won't add any more complexity to the game for casual players. It will, however, open the door for those who wish to play a more cerebral brand of football and/or learn more about defensive fronts and why they do or don't work.

                    LBz, where do I sign up?

                    Comment

                    • LBzrule
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 13085

                      #25
                      Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                      Originally posted by K_GUN
                      the problem with your philosophy is this...a ton of guys like myself have never played 1 SNAP of organized football (I'm built like Dustin Pedroia)...so i have no idea about the basic principle of football....and quite frankly at the age of 41 dont care...I just want to play a realistic game of football--not an *NFL Blitz* style of game....so for guys like us....should we not be *allowed* to play/want to play a game of videogame football?...kinda sounds like it with some of your posts
                      Everything I said in this thread fits what I just highlighted from your post. You want to play a realistic game of football. So do I. I'm outlining for you how NFL, NCAA and HS defensive coordinators install and call defenses. What's the problem?

                      Comment

                      • LBzrule
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 13085

                        #26
                        Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                        Originally posted by Bootzilla
                        I totally agree with your reasoning. I believe the play call itself should cover all of the gap responsibilities and necessary fits as intended and the commits should be used more so as gambles or calculated risks.

                        It should but it doesn't. That's the only reason why I started this thread. If it did I would agree with you guys. The play call should do this, but it does not. So in order to have it somewhat mimick what the play call should have I outlined what I did.

                        If its 3rd and short and I want to sell out on a run up the middle and I get play-actioned that's the risk I take. But, if I want to stop that run generally I will have to commit to it either by play call or added emphasis i.e. run commit. Same goes for pass commit. If its 3rd and long and I get screened or drawed, such is life.

                        Honestly, committing your run defense to any side is risky but, is it doing that much more than crashing your line or linebackers in one direction or another? I really don't know.
                        Crashing your line right/left against the run your defenders do not hit the next gap. They are controlled by the OL on where they go and the OL just stands them up in that spot. This is exactly the reason why there is no flow on wide zone run plays.

                        Since the game itself isn't able to read keys or truly adjust to down and distance I'm fine with the way run/pass commit is implemented; as a tool to sell out in obvious down and distance situations. High risk, high reward. For everything else, the standard play call should suffice.
                        And that's exactly what I think run commit should do. Have your guys make up for the lack of reading keys by giving them some gap responsibility.

                        Comment

                        • ch46647
                          MVP
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 3514

                          #27
                          Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                          What is the difference between crashing your line right and left and run committing right and left?

                          Comment

                          • LBzrule
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 13085

                            #28
                            Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                            Originally posted by OG_McNabb
                            Good post, but I'd really like to know where you got the play diagram program. Is it free?
                            It's on the web. I'll give credit to the site. Credit to:http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011...-kyle-williams

                            for the diagrams and btw, there is an entire article there that will talk about everything discussed in the original post with more diagrams on the Over and 46 fronts.

                            Comment

                            • LBzrule
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 13085

                              #29
                              Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                              Originally posted by ch46647
                              What is the difference between crashing your line right and left and run committing right and left?
                              The difference is huge. Crashing right/left does nothing against the run in Madden. Your DL gets stood up where they line up. No movement. Committing right and left = your DL is detached from the OL and have movement right/left. If we go back to what I highlighted on Zone plays 2k vs Madden:

                              <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b7pqFMA1-2I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                              Notice in the Madden section of the video the DL stands straight up. NO mobility in the blocks. Well it is crash left/right and the DL gets no movement left or right in Madden. It's just get stood up where you are lined up. It does not do a good job of capturing what happens on zone plays or any other outside run plays.

                              Comment

                              • ch46647
                                MVP
                                • Aug 2006
                                • 3514

                                #30
                                Re: Run/Pass Commit IN Madden 13 Make it More Realistic

                                Ok, nice video. What does the pass commit do in Madden? Does it make the DE's get up field better or just make the secondary more aware?

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