What Effect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madden?

[Big FN Deal]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

Simple economics dictates that to have a product that sells, it has to be something there is demand for.

To that end, yes there's an obvious influence on Madden from the community.

Proof is in the pudding with CCM, RTP, franchise mode additions into M12, franchise mode additions into M10, etc.

I hear you but that can be misleading, just because a product capitalizes on the demand in the market, doesn't mean that product meets that demand. Meaning, there is demand for a more realistic representation of football in a video game but due to the exclusive, many gamers will settle for the only NFL video game product available, even if it's not realistic.

[LBzrule]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

Big, this actually plays into one of my topics for next week. I'm not ready to post it yet, but I think this will play into what I will post next week. Should be great discussion.

[berad88]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

I have seen many many many many ideas and suggestions mentioned here that made it into various versions of Madden. I think it is completely ridiculous to think or suggest that the community has had nothing to do with improvements made to the current gen Madden.
There are going to be plenty of people that are going to hate the game just to hate the game because they are not a fan of EA, Madden, exclusive licenses, or whatever. Constructive criticism is great but there are a lot of people that just come here to hate. Those people really need to grow up, move on and play some other game, or maybe even just find something else to do with their free time.
It's not even about what the community has done. It is plain as day that the Madden community has put a lot of input into the development of the current gen of madden.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

I have seen many many many many ideas and suggestions mentioned here that made it into various versions of Madden. I think it is completely ridiculous to think or suggest that the community has had nothing to do with improvements made to the current gen Madden.
There are going to be plenty of people that are going to hate the game just to hate the game because they are not a fan of EA, Madden, exclusive licenses, or whatever. Constructive criticism is great but there are a lot of people that just come here to hate. Those people really need to grow up, move on and play some other game, or maybe even just find something else to do with their free time.
It's not even about what the community has done. It is plain as day that the Madden community has put a lot of input into the development of the current gen of madden.

Do you care to list what you feel are examples or specific substantial changes, that this community has brought about to next-gen Madden?

[berad88]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

Do you care to list what you feel are examples or specific substantial changes, that this community has brought about to next-gen Madden?

There is no need to make a list if you been playing this game a while. Most of the things requested by the community find their way into the game. Being understanding not everything that the community wants can be put into the game immediately. Some things take time and this is a yearly release. Football is an extremely complicated and complex sport. Some people just want things to magically appear in the game and work to perfection. Football is very complicated and programming a football game has to be quite a challenge.
Everybody has different opinions of what is important. Some ideas may be a bit over the top so people need to realize that they can not take it personal if something they request does not make it in immediately.

Big, I think you say a lot of great stuff and you really add to the community here. You make a lot of great threads and suggest a lot of great ideas but this thread right here is not one of your better pieces of work.
I should not have to list every idea that got put into the game. I been going to this forum for several years. The changes that came from community suggestions are obvious. If the changes are not substantial enough then maybe the community is to blame, but I think that is crazy.

[Tweeg]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

There is no need to make a list if you been playing this game a while. Most of the things requested by the community find their way into the game. Being understanding not everything that the community wants can be put into the game immediately. Some things take time and this is a yearly release. Football is an extremely complicated and complex sport. Some people just want things to magically appear in the game and work to perfection. Football is very complicated and programming a football game has to be quite a challenge.
Everybody has different opinions of what is important. Some ideas may be a bit over the top so people need to realize that they can not take it personal if something they request does not make it in immediately.

Big, I think you say a lot of great stuff and you really add to the community here. You make a lot of great threads and suggest a lot of great ideas but this thread right here is not one of your better pieces of work.
I should not have to list every idea that got put into the game. I been going to this forum for several years. The changes that came from community suggestions are obvious. If the changes are not substantial enough then maybe the community is to blame, but I think that is crazy.

Come on...You're acting like EA Sports is some sort of indie developer, and we should pat them on the back for being able to program a football game.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

There is no need to make a list if you been playing this game a while. Most of the things requested by the community find their way into the game. Being understanding not everything that the community wants can be put into the game immediately. Some things take time and this is a yearly release. Football is an extremely complicated and complex sport. Some people just want things to magically appear in the game and work to perfection. Football is very complicated and programming a football game has to be quite a challenge.
Everybody has different opinions of what is important. Some ideas may be a bit over the top so people need to realize that they can not take it personal if something they request does not make it in immediately.

Big, I think you say a lot of great stuff and you really add to the community here. You make a lot of great threads and suggest a lot of great ideas but this thread right here is not one of your better pieces of work.
I should not have to list every idea that got put into the game. I been going to this forum for several years. The changes that came from community suggestions are obvious. If the changes are not substantial enough then maybe the community is to blame, but I think that is crazy.

I wasn't asking for you to list every example, just any change that you felt demonstrated substantial community affect on next-gen Madden. I agree there have been changes made that coincide with things the community have asked for but they have come years later and sometimes taken completely out shortly after. I repeat, I don't know that because some things we asked for eventually changed means we affected it or it was just going to happen anyway, due to the timing.

I think you might be misunderstanding the intent of this thread. Let me word it this way and ask you this. What do you feel would be substantially different about next-gen Madden if not for the community interaction?

[berad88]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

I wasn't asking for you to list every example, just any change that you felt demonstrated substantial community affect on next-gen Madden. I agree there have been changes made that coincide with things the community have asked for but they have come years later and sometimes taken completely out shortly after. I repeat, I don't know that because some things we asked for eventually changed means we affected it or it was just going to happen anyway, due to the timing.

I think you might be misunderstanding the intent of this thread. Let me word it this way and ask you this. What do you feel would be substantially different about next-gen Madden if not for the community interaction?

I am sorry if I misunderstood.
I think there would be a whole lot less depth to the game and a lot more gimmicks without the community. Things like create a fan and create a sign and stuff like that would be in the game in full force. Stuff that was getting put in the game before the community had a voice.
I think there are some people that know that EA does listen but they like to pretend that EA does not because their expectations are too high for right now or to be put in the game in one year.

Today a half hour video was put up on OS about F1 2012. Please keep reading. I know that F1 is not a popular sport in the US but I am a huge fan of F1 so I watched the video. While watching the video the developers mention how in other sports games the developers of those games just make roster updates and little improvements from year to year and that is all they need to do to sell the game.

I think that used to be true at one time. I know that Madden got a really backwards start on this generation of console but I think EA is really trying and I think they are trying because of the community. They are clearly doing more than just giving us a roster update. I think Madden 13 is going to be huge. I think the Madden Community is to thank for that and obviously EA listens to us. I think they really do want to make the ultimate football game. I think we all need to keep our expectations at a realistic level as well. A yearly release does not even give the developers a whole year to work on the game.
The future looks great for Madden and this is because of the community.

[WillisFaithful]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

There is no need to make a list if you been playing this game a while. Most of the things requested by the community find their way into the game. Being understanding not everything that the community wants can be put into the game immediately. Some things take time and this is a yearly release. Football is an extremely complicated and complex sport. Some people just want things to magically appear in the game and work to perfection. Football is very complicated and programming a football game has to be quite a challenge.
Everybody has different opinions of what is important. Some ideas may be a bit over the top so people need to realize that they can not take it personal if something they request does not make it in immediately.

Big, I think you say a lot of great stuff and you really add to the community here. You make a lot of great threads and suggest a lot of great ideas but this thread right here is not one of your better pieces of work.
I should not have to list every idea that got put into the game. I been going to this forum for several years. The changes that came from community suggestions are obvious. If the changes are not substantial enough then maybe the community is to blame, but I think that is crazy.

They've been coding football games for like 25 years ..

While yes I'm sure some has made it's way into the game, but how many of them stay?

Problem is EA is always taking something out, which makes no sense ..

[Big FN Deal]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

I am sorry if I misunderstood.
I think there would be a whole lot less depth to the game and a lot more gimmicks without the community. Things like create a fan and create a sign and stuff like that would be in the game in full force. Stuff that was getting put in the game before the community had a voice.
I think there are some people that know that EA does listen but they like to pretend that EA does not because their expectations are too high for right now or to be put in the game in one year.

Today a half hour video was put up on OS about F1 2012. Please keep reading. I know that F1 is not a popular sport in the US but I am a huge fan of F1 so I watched the video. While watching the video the developers mention how in other sports games the developers of those games just make roster updates and little improvements from year to year and that is all they need to do to sell the game.

I think that used to be true at one time. I know that Madden got a really backwards start on this generation of console but I think EA is really trying and I think they are trying because of the community. They are clearly doing more than just giving us a roster update. I think Madden 13 is going to be huge. I think the Madden Community is to thank for that and obviously EA listens to us. I think they really do want to make the ultimate football game. I think we all need to keep our expectations at a realistic level as well. A yearly release does not even give the developers a whole year to work on the game.
The future looks great for Madden and this is because of the community.

Not to be rude Berad88 but I don't feel like you are answering the question and are instead giving generalities.

Let's say someone used the player movement finally added in M10 as an example of EA/Tiburon listening to the community. If that's true, who in the community was responsible for getting it taken out or toned down to almost nonexistent levels for M11 and M12?

How about during the M11 dev cycle when EA announced there wouldn't be anything much done to Franchise mode that year so they could overhaul it going forward but then stated submit all your suggestions for what we want added. What happened to all the Franchise suggestions and wishlists that had been submitted the previous 5 years? Also, as much as I am excited about CCM, the "Coach" control is pretty much HC09 with Madden game play, which make perfect sense considering Josh Looman created both but that's what M12's Franchise was based on too, so what happened to the suggestions they asked for back during M11?

I am not belittling the substantial changes made to next-gen Madden or denying they happened, I am just not sure that community interaction had much, if anything, to do with them coming about.

Community sales and various dev personnel changes, yes but community interaction, not so much.

[berad88]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

I guess I am just not as bitter about the game as a lot of other people. A lot of stuff that has been removed I thought was crazy at first but now looking back things like tony bruno, those mini camp drills, and stuff like that I don't miss at all.
I know that removing editing players, controlling all teams, and importing draft classes is a much bigger deal but from what has been said it seems that editing players and importing draft classes are guaranteed to make a quick return.

I cant say why anything gets cut out of the game. I don't make games. For all I know there could be a very legit reason why a trade off might have to get made.

I understand it is a game and I been playing it since way back on the Sega Genesis and it is a whole lot more realistic now than it was back then. I always find ways to enjoy it. I guess my expectations are a lot lower than most people. I know the game is not perfect but I find it to be fun.
I will close with that. There is no point in continuing. People that want to hate this game will continue to do so just like all the people that hate in every single other game forum out there.

[WillisFaithful]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

I guess I am just not as bitter about the game as a lot of other people. A lot of stuff that has been removed I thought was crazy at first but now looking back things like tony bruno, those mini camp drills, and stuff like that I don't miss at all.
I know that removing editing players, controlling all teams, and importing draft classes is a much bigger deal but from what has been said it seems that editing players and importing draft classes are guaranteed to make a quick return.

I cant say why anything gets cut out of the game. I don't make games. For all I know there could be a very legit reason why a trade off might have to get made.

I understand it is a game and I been playing it since way back on the Sega Genesis and it is a whole lot more realistic now than it was back then. I always find ways to enjoy it. I guess my expectations are a lot lower than most people. I know the game is not perfect but I find it to be fun.
I will close with that. There is no point in continuing. People that want to hate this game will continue to do so just like all the people that hate in every single other game forum out there.

I am very excited about Madden 13 .. in fact I'm probably one of those guys that most people here hate (I buy the game every year) ..

But EA knows people want control .. EA gave everyone control only to rip it away again ..

[roadman]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

Not to be rude Berad88 but I don't feel like you are answering the question and are instead giving generalities.

Let's say someone used the player movement finally added in M10 as an example of EA/Tiburon listening to the community. If that's true, who in the community was responsible for getting it taken out or toned down to almost nonexistent levels for M11 and M12?

How about during the M11 dev cycle when EA announced there wouldn't be anything much done to Franchise mode that year so they could overhaul it going forward but then stated submit all your suggestions for what we want added. What happened to all the Franchise suggestions and wishlists that had been submitted the previous 5 years? Also, as much as I am excited about CCM, the "Coach" control is pretty much HC09 with Madden game play, which make perfect sense considering Josh Looman created both but that's what M12's Franchise was based on too, so what happened to the suggestions they asked for back during M11?

I am not belittling the substantial changes made to next-gen Madden or denying they happened, I am just not sure that community interaction had much, if anything, to do with them coming about.

Community sales and various dev personnel changes, yes but community interaction, not so much.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I thought we had influence once, but now, I don't think we had as much.

I know I've brought this up before, but Ian, after Madden 10 hit the streets, came out with a list that EA put 90% of the suggestions from OS into Madden 10. Anyone that was around here for that, remembers that.

Ever since that developer interaction faded from OS, I've felt the influencing slipping away. This coincides, besides RG, not many GC's represent OS anymore.

At the end of the day, I feel marketing and the design team have more influence and make the final decisions on what goes in Madden and what is put on the chopping block. I recall the OS people that made a visit to CD for Madden 10 and I think, if I recall, they asked run blocking to become better and in Madden 11, run blocking was addressed.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I thought we had influence once, but now, I don't think we had as much.

I know I've brought this up before, but Ian, after Madden 10 hit the streets, came out with a list that EA put 90% of the suggestions from OS into Madden 10. Anyone that was around here for that, remembers that.

Ever since that developer interaction faded from OS, I've felt the influencing slipping away. This coincides, besides RG, not many GC's represent OS anymore.

At the end of the day, I feel marketing and the design team have more influence and make the final decisions on what goes in Madden and what is put on the chopping block. I recall the OS people that made a visit to CD for Madden 10 and I think, if I recall, they asked run blocking to become better and in Madden 11, run blocking was addressed.

To the bold, if that's true and run blocking was indeed changed in just one year from community suggestions at CD, then why are so many other things claimed to take years?

I am not coming at you Road, I am just saying something has got to give. If these things take time because the code in Madden is so jacked up or whatever then substantial changes have to be preplanned. However, if substantial change can be made in just one year one time, then that should be possible every time.

Like I said earlier, if someone can demonstrate that the community had substantial influence on ___ then why not ___ too?

[roadman]

Re: What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madde

To the bold, if that's true and run blocking was indeed changed in just one year from community suggestions at CD, then why are so many other things claimed to take years?

I am not coming at you Road, I am just saying something has got to give. If these things take time because the code in Madden is so jacked up or whatever then substantial changes have to be preplanned. However, if substantial change can be made in just one year one time, then that should be possible every time.

Like I said earlier, if someone can demonstrate that the community had substantial influence on ___ then why not ___ too?

Oh, I know you weren't coming after me, just the process. I don't have any answers beyond that.

Let's hope with the new engine, things can be implemented in a meaningful and quick fashion. I recall Ian mentioning they spent a ton of time ripping out the old code for run blocking and putting in the new code.