So what's the point of defense in this game?

[Trick13]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

The defense is really flawed in this game. Can we get a Madden game where, when you hit the "jump" button, defenders (and WR's for that matter) consistently always, you know, jump?

In 2013, that is not too much to ask for.

Consistent results from how you push the buttons based on ratings? That is outrageous, we haven't had anything like that since legacy gen control layout.

But that would be awesome...

[MikeKolb]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Because it's obviously not to stop the offense.

The defense in this game is so atrocious. Unless you are able to force a turnover, defense does not stop the offense. And before anyone discusses my playcalling - I am in a 32 man online CCM, and there isn't a strong defense anywhere in the entire league.

Even when I call the right play, and have defenders in position, they fail to react to the ball in the air and just stand around with their thumbs up their butts as the offense makes a play that shouldn't have been made. The buttons to actually manually defend the pass (Y and LB on X-Box 360) don't work, as even when I press them the defender I'm controlling does nothing. In zone defense, the defenders do not probably defend against receivers that come into their zone. And in man coverage I've watched my DB's literally run away from receivers...

In the running game, I lose control of my players as they are pulled into blitzing the opposite gap than I assigned them to blitz... appropriately enough, the gap that I was pulled away from is the gap that my opponent is running into. When blitzing against the run or for pass rush, even if I have a wide open path, the player that I am controlling gets pulled away from their path to get sucked into a block... Even though the blocker was away from me.

It seems that literally every game I play comes down to who has the ball last, because the defense simply doesn't stop anyone.

I find that you need to set sliders properly to make it more realistic.

[Trick13]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

I find that you need to set sliders properly to make it more realistic.

I would really love to see them flip the script and make it so that the "glitchers" would have to spend hundreds of hours to make the game play arcade style via slider adjustments.

[daniel77733]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Well firstly, it sounds like you're playing in a league where people can switch to receivers and defensive backs and in my opinion and my opinion only, that's not how the game is supposed to be played.

If you're not supposed to switch to receivers and defenders, whats the point of playing the game to begin with? After I pass, I switch to the WR so I can manually catch the ball. On defense, I switch to the closest defender to either attempt a tackle or to knock down a pass.

Sorry but if Madden is meant to be played by the CPU and you just watching what happens, what the hell is the point of buying Madden? And people here wonder why many (myself included) wish every year that 2K return.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

If you're not supposed to switch to receivers and defenders, whats the point of playing the game to begin with? After I pass, I switch to the WR so I can manually catch the ball. On defense, I switch to the closest defender to either attempt a tackle or to knock down a pass.

Sorry but if Madden is meant to be played by the CPU and you just watching what happens, what the hell is the point of buying Madden? And people here wonder why many (myself included) wish every year that 2K return.

I just replied to this sentiment in another thread.

A no switch league, which I have never been in but understand the premise of, doesn't equate to not "playing" the game, the User stills has to assume control of the ball carrier after a catch/int. It's simply a means to try to limit intentional and unintentional User exploitation of the passing game.

[Hooe]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

As to avoid double-talk, I'm going to direct all talk about user catching to the user catching discussion thread also on the first page and ask that that discussion continue there and that this one get back to more defense-oriented issues:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...e-leagues.html

#trafficCop

[Unlucky 13]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Im a bit late to the party here, buying the game in March, but I find the defense to be MUCH stronger than the offense.

Now, I play only against the CPU, never against humans, so that may color my views somewhat. However, as a veteran of Madden since the first year it was on the original NES, I find playing offense in this generation more difficult than it has been in a long time. It took me 10-12 games to even feel like I was in a rythm and regularly score two TDs a game on PRO difficulty. I moved up to All Pro for my second season, and am last in the league in most catagories.

On the flip side, the defense - both mine and the CPUs - is almost overpowering. My DE's absolutely destroy the CPU's RT on a regular basis, and the CPU's QB rarely tries to throw the ball between the hash marks, leading to a very low complestion percentage.

Most of my games end in a score where both teams score below 17.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

This thread made me take a double look at one of my leagues - this one is on OS - and look at the scores. Most of the close low scoring games are pretty consistent - the 50 point game is rare as well as a lopsided win. Note: These are all user v. user matchups.

CLE 20
BUF 24

NYJ 17
IND 13

KC 21
SD 52

TEN 21
BAL 20

MIN 17
DET 24

ARI 13
DAL 37

WAS 16
DEN 24

STL 27
ATL 14

NE 17
PIT 23

HOU 17
JAX 20

[Unlucky 13]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

After reading through the whole thread, I have to ask...is everyone here talking about playing online against other people? Does the game play differently (you against the defense) in that case? Since the CPU blitzes on almost every play, I cant imagine that human players are THAT much more agressive.

Playing against the CPU on offense, I have huge troubles in the passing game. CPU LBs crush my WRs over the middle and jump any short route in the flat for a pick six. 75% of my deep passes are picked off, even when it looks like my guy is WIDE open. Id say that about 75% of my drives end either in a three and out or almost as quickly because a DB blitz puts me in third and forever, and I end up punting. Most of my scoring drives are because I returned a punt into good field position.

Dont get me wrong, I like a challenge. But what was my whole game plan in most generations of the game just isnt there anymore for me.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

After reading through the whole thread, I have to ask...is everyone here talking about playing online against other people? Does the game play differently (you against the defense) in that case? Since the CPU blitzes on almost every play, I cant imagine that human players are THAT much more agressive.

Playing against the CPU on offense, I have huge troubles in the passing game. CPU LBs crush my WRs over the middle and jump any short route in the flat for a pick six. 75% of my deep passes are picked off, even when it looks like my guy is WIDE open. Id say that about 75% of my drives end either in a three and out or almost as quickly because a DB blitz puts me in third and forever, and I end up punting. Most of my scoring drives are because I returned a punt into good field position.

Dont get me wrong, I like a challenge. But what was my whole game plan in most generations of the game just isnt there anymore for me.

Ian Cummings back when he was CD for Madden stated that adaptive AI for CPU controlled teams was intentionally watered down for User controlled teams because the User should be playing, not the CPU for them. So who knows WTF is going on in the code with Madden at this point.

[Franchise408]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

In response to a few things that have been said in this thread since I originally created it:

-I definitely am not getting upset because a "38 MCV" guy is getting beat in man coverage. Quite the opposite in fact. My best cover corner ratings wise is a 91 man coverage who is constantly getting beat in man coverage, almost to a point of being a liability. When I first started in my league, I was controlling the Arizona Cardinals, and Patrick Peterson was an absolute liability for me, always getting beat in coverage. I am using the 49ers now, and my CB's have 91 and 86 man coverage respectively, and neither one of them can make a stop in man coverage. I make substitutions to take players off the field where their weaknesses would be exploited... I.E. I have one formation where a safety of mine who DOES have somewhere around a 38 man coverage would be constantly placed in man coverage. So I remove him and replace him with players that have stronger ratings for that particular formation. I pay attention to my player's rankings and playcall to take advantage of those strengths. As far as the zone coverage goes, the people who don't make any sort of reaction in zone coverage are players like Dashon Goldson. Not exactly scrubs sitting back there. For what it's worth, I played a game against an owner who had stacked a secondary with Champ Bailey, Aqib Talib, and Asante Samuel, and I torched him for about 400 yards or so in the air.

-The league we play in doesn't really glitch or take advantage of game mechanics. We're in a somewhat sim league that doesn't have a "win at all costs" mentality. It's a bunch of guys just having fun with a league, and it's competitive, but we all have things going on outside of Madden. I don't feel that the people that are beating me are people who are rocket catching or things like that. But on the flip side, it's -my- offense as well. I don't do any of that stuff, but unless I'm throwing interceptions (which lets be real... INT's are way to frequent in this year's game), my offense isn't being stopped.

-When my defenders aren't reacting to my button presses, I'm not talking about guys who are out of position. I am talking about defenders who simply just stop, which basically allows the receiver to run free for a touchdown. I have seen defenders who are in PERFECT position to make a play, but when I press the button, they just stand there and do nothing. The players simply do not respond to my press of the button. It has nothing to do with being out of position and everything to do with poor design and mechanics.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

@Franchise408, I feel for most part and the only thing I will ad is I have heard with regard to "pressing" the button, that in M13 you have to hold it down. Not saying your are doing it wrong, I am just clarifying that people have stated there is a difference this year, due to the ball hawk feature and whatnot, with pressing the button to jump or attempt an int in M12 opposed to needing to hold it earlier in M13. It's like the jump/int has become more of an auto assist.

[Franchise408]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

@Franchise408, I feel for most part and the only thing I will ad is I have heard with regard to "pressing" the button, that in M13 you have to hold it down. Not saying your are doing it wrong, I am just clarifying that people have stated there is a difference this year, due to the ball hawk feature and whatnot, with pressing the button to jump or attempt an int in M12 opposed to needing to hold it earlier in M13. It's like the jump/int has become more of an auto assist.

But sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's wholly inconsistent.

[Trick13]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

But sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's wholly inconsistent.

This is a problem throughout the entirety of the game. And in response to those who say the player is out of position - what should that matter in terms of response from user input. If the game is judging the player to be out of position then fine have the attempt be terrible, but at least show the attempt, at least have the player respond in some way to the input even if you are out of position.

It should be no different than when I accidentally hit the tackle/dive button with a defender who is 7 yards away from the ball carrier - in that case the player dives and takes himself out of the play. So if I am controlling a player and miss time something, or he is not "positioned" to make the play, have him make an attempt of some sort - even if it is completely ineffective.

There are times when you switch to a DB and get an INT despite the DB having no idea where the ball is. I am willing to allow for DBs "guessing" right or "reacting" to the WRs catch attempt in those cases, but these instances should almost never result in INTs. Pass breakups - sure, dropped INTs - fine with that, "tip drill scenarios" - would be awesome, but not cool when any player, offense or defense catches a ball they had no way of seeing...

[Nav]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

I stand completely by what I said. For evidence, scroll up to this post:



Not to pick on you PacMan, but my DB's always jump when they're in position to do so. Now, when you smash the jump button and they don't jump, it's because they're body is not in the position to do so, and/or they are too far away from the ball to make a play. Again, go back and read my other post. Most Madden players expect their players in-game to do unhumanly things.

You cannot expect your player to launch himself over the moon for a catch or an interception every time you ask him to.

Tell that to the guy I played yesterday. If this is true for the defense it should be true of the offense. The guy I played chose the Bears and kept ROCKET catching vs DOUBLE COVERAGE. He completed 80% of the jumpball animations with my CORNER and SAFETY all OVER him. Somehow he could magically contort his BODY through and over my safety to catch the ball.