3rd string can still play against 1st.

[Cardot]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

For a few years now I have theorized that there are just too many things going on under the hood that effectivly outweigh a majority of the ratings. Hot/Cold Streaks, Momentum, Chemistry etc. Overly complex HFA. Then throw in some wonky EA sliders that seem to have all sorts of odd side effects. It is a hot mess.

Most wishlists seem to want them to add more factors and variables into the mix. I am probalby in the minority, but I think the game would be much better if they would simplify some aspects of the game.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

Thats not entirely true. Madden wanted this game to be a sim first and foremost to teach kids the fundamentals and basics of football. He wanted it as real as possible.

Of course over the years EA has strayed away from this basically out of pure laziness and time constraints.

I'm no EA apologist, but you do need to recognize the paradox of what "sim" gamers want. If you are going to chop 60 minutes of game clock down to 32, 24, 20, etc then you are going to have sacrifice realism on either a per-play or a per-game basis.

Imagine how the NFL would look if you chopped the game clock by 2/3rds. You'd have games ending 6-3, 7-3, 3-0, 10-7, etc all the time. QBs would be throwing for 110-140 yards on a good day.

So EA went a different route and tried to capture all the exciting plays of a 60 minute real game in a 20 minute video game, and the result is that offense is overpowered. And that's before we get into the fact that the human player can see the whole field and never gets tired or injured.

[friscob]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

I'm no EA apologist, but you do need to recognize the paradox of what "sim" gamers want. If you are going to chop 60 minutes of game clock down to 32, 24, 20, etc then you are going to have sacrifice realism on either a per-play or a per-game basis.

Imagine how the NFL would look if you chopped the game clock by 2/3rds. You'd have games ending 6-3, 7-3, 3-0, 10-7, etc all the time. QBs would be throwing for 110-140 yards on a good day.

So EA went a different route and tried to capture all the exciting plays of a 60 minute real game in a 20 minute video game, and the result is that offense is overpowered. And that's before we get into the fact that the human player can see the whole field and never gets tired or injured.

I completely agree w/ the points your making but also would enjoy it if they had a "sim" setting in the game for those of us who don't mind the 110-140 passing yards in a game or 6-3 final scores

[Sturzinator]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

I'm no EA apologist, but you do need to recognize the paradox of what "sim" gamers want. If you are going to chop 60 minutes of game clock down to 32, 24, 20, etc then you are going to have sacrifice realism on either a per-play or a per-game basis.

Imagine how the NFL would look if you chopped the game clock by 2/3rds. You'd have games ending 6-3, 7-3, 3-0, 10-7, etc all the time. QBs would be throwing for 110-140 yards on a good day.

So EA went a different route and tried to capture all the exciting plays of a 60 minute real game in a 20 minute video game, and the result is that offense is overpowered. And that's before we get into the fact that the human player can see the whole field and never gets tired or injured.

Not really.

I want to play the same number of snaps that the sim engine is producing in CCM so that my stats are relevant to and can properly measure up to the remainder of the league. In past years, the number of snaps from the sim engine has been reasonably realistic (while the results it yielded were certainly not, at least for M13).

How much time (real time or EA game clock time) this takes to achieve is irrelevant.

If the snap counts compare favorably to real football, the goal should be stat output and scores that are in a realistic range of NFL football.

[thbends]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

Im not saying this argument is not valid but you sound like my wife. She claims I "always" do this or that.

I know for a fact that the DL guys including DEs control completely differently by their stats. This is the same engine as NCAA and I can tell who on my line Im controlling. So maybe just maybe ratings have a bigger impact when you personally control someone.

[Chibears12]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

So every reciever is basically the same?

[aikitim]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

Not really.

I want to play the same number of snaps that the sim engine is producing in CCM so that my stats are relevant to and can properly measure up to the remainder of the league. In past years, the number of snaps from the sim engine has been reasonably realistic (while the results it yielded were certainly not, at least for M13).

How much time (real time or EA game clock time) this takes to achieve is irrelevant.

If the snap counts compare favorably to real football, the goal should be stat output and scores that are in a realistic range of NFL football.

For me it's like this:

If I play 5 minute quarters with accelertated clock, I want the sim engine to play 5 minute quarters with accelerated clock. Whether or not the stats are realistic to the NFL is irrelevant, they should only be realistic comparitevely speaking within your own league. If you want to run 400 plays a game with LOOOONG quarters and rush for 400 yards a game, the sim engine should be putting out similar numbers based on time of play and play count. With a system like that in place you could tweak it yourself to find a happy medium between real life play time, play count, and 'realistic' league wide statistics.

[dat boi Q]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

For me it's like this:

If I play 5 minute quarters with accelertated clock, I want the sim engine to play 5 minute quarters with accelerated clock. Whether or not the stats are realistic to the NFL is irrelevant, they should only be realistic comparitevely speaking within your own league. If you want to run 400 plays a game with LOOOONG quarters and rush for 400 yards a game, the sim engine should be putting out similar numbers based on time of play and play count. With a system like that in place you could tweak it yourself to find a happy medium between real life play time, play count, and 'realistic' league wide statistics.

Nba2k does this in their franchise mode. You choose your minutes and you choose the sim engine minutes.

[Cardot]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

Nba2k does this in their franchise mode. You choose your minutes and you choose the sim engine minutes.

I am pretty sure that NFL2K had that option way back in the day as well....Possibly even back to Dreamcast days??

[ghettogeeksta]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

So every reciever is basically the same?

No, they are exactly the same.

[Rezzo503]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

So I can put anyone at wide-out and dominate like Calvin Johnson?


I don't know if I agree with that one.

People Act like EVERY starter position in the NFL is guaranteed. Most of these guys are average everyday players, who probably paid more attention in class...and came to work on time. lol

Only a select few players in the league are Guaranteed Spots every year.

So yea, most linemen in the league you can move around on most teams and wouldn't make a difference... its usually the captain/center who makes them work together and effectively.

I mean REALLY... how many different types of wide-outs can you have? Not Many, they all can catch... all can jump, all run routes... The only ones who STAND out...every game, every play. Are FREAKS of nature. (CJ is a threat no matter what, even with the defense covering him perfectly... he still has the ability to overcome that, only a handful of guys you can say that about... so Yea... most recievers are the same, besides some are quicker then others. And guess what they do?.... Run Streaks?...and Hope they are a hot read on a blitz? or hope they are playing a just as average CB?)

People say route running doesn't matter?... I mean really? Play someone who uses Zone A lot, and watch you 95 Route Runner Drop in the soft spots. Or him make a beautiful Double move on a route and NOT lose speed...

Or when you see a Curl route, and the DB keeps running for 5-6 steps... That's Route Running Rating

Now im not here to defend Madden and say it has no flaws, because trust me... ive spent countless hours testing sliders and theories, and comparing them to the ones I've seen on here.

But im sorry, the Majority of people here act like EA is just abunch of idiots who have no idea what there doing, they just put abunch of ratings together and most of them mean nothing...

Is everything realistic? Hell no... but the average NFL fan doesn't even know what "Scrape Exchange" means...

Or Pattern Matching...Pattern Matching?...No One brings that up when talking about defense in this game. That's going to take Brand New FANTASTIC A.I To have Pattern Matching in a football game.

Pattern Matching is the EPITOMY of READ AND REACT in football...and EVERY team does It. Advantage Offense In Madden...

But Offense is missing a ton of things as well. Plus... Who REALLY spends just as much time learning the defensive side to the game of football?

How many of you look at the QB's Drop as a Indication of what type of play they called?

Im not saying people don't do this, because I've seen people bring these up... but it just feels like it drops to deaf ears. People want Simulation Football... But if The game was 100%, Wouldn't know half the Term's in the game and would be getting BLOWN out by the CPU. lol

But then they come on forums and talk about realism.... lol


This game won't be real....for a long long time. Football is WAY to complicated on a play by play basis. The A.I would have to INCREDIBLE and almost mind reader like to even have a chance to compete with someone who knows football and utilizes matchups.

Theres only so much they can do.

I mean everyone is on NBA 2k's Nuts.... But even THEY are missing ton's of elements from real basketball.

The A.I Doesn't Run the REAL Triangle in NBA 2k... Why? its To damn complicated and is based of read and reaction.

Everyone wanted "Real" Read and react in the game... then wonder why people are wide open?

Seriously? Has anyone watched COACH FILM? (Im sure people have, and they understand that plus Birds eye view equals people open, unless they DB's were Psychic....Oh wait...) PEOPLE ARE OPEN Almost every play in real football....lol...
But In REAL Football, the QB has MAYBE...Literally Maybe, 2 Seconds to pass. A Good Blitz will get there in 1.2 Seconds... People would be complaining if they had that much time playing against the steelers in Madden 11 a couple years ago. lol

Thank god we have Birds eye view in Madden...

Plus add in the Fact that there trying to appeal to Millions of Fans?

EA is doing the same thing NBA 2k is doing.....lol NBA 2k has plenty of A.I Problems when it comes to Reading and Reacting... and that's what football is ALL about.

If they made the game a Simulation.... No one would play it and have fun. It would be way to complicated. They have to find a balance.

Its like a Racing Sim..... Even in those games they leave out certain elements of real driving, or else it would be way to hard and end up not fun.

Not everyone wants to spend a month learning REAL football and reading about each and every D-Line Technique, and whats the difference between a 0 Tech and 3 Tech, Etc etc...

People would lose their damn minds lol


Everyone wants something different...

Most of the people that BUY madden, know they are buying a VIDEOGAME... That's in a Entertainment Market. EVERY Damn Product uses Marketing To Sell....

I mean come on guys....lol

[inkcil]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

For me it's like this:

If I play 5 minute quarters with accelertated clock, I want the sim engine to play 5 minute quarters with accelerated clock. Whether or not the stats are realistic to the NFL is irrelevant, they should only be realistic comparitevely speaking within your own league. If you want to run 400 plays a game with LOOOONG quarters and rush for 400 yards a game, the sim engine should be putting out similar numbers based on time of play and play count. With a system like that in place you could tweak it yourself to find a happy medium between real life play time, play count, and 'realistic' league wide statistics.

You hit the nail on the head. I don't want to play 5 minute quarters and compete against CPU stats based on 15 minute quarters. I'll never get any year end "total yard-based" awards.

[R9NALD9]

Re: 3rd string can still play against 1st.

You hit the nail on the head. I don't want to play 5 minute quarters and compete against CPU stats based on 15 minute quarters. I'll never get any year end "total yard-based" awards.

Wait didn't the game we do not speak of have this?