Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

[Caliboy626]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Unlucky 13,

I am neither a bully or do I have a copious amount of time on my hands. I work 50 hours a week and have a family. I personally have complained this year that it takes to long to get through 1 week in owner mode this year.

Look I am not defending the game guys (although I do like the scheme overalls, I just think it needs to be tweaked). I am simply trying to make the scheme overall make sense for you guys.

[brettmickey]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Then why is everyone complaining? You just admitted the overall has no effect on the actual gameplay without the core stats to back it up. That's the point I was trying to make. Plus the computer basis contract talk and free agent values and trade values on the overall rating. I got Hakeem Nicks for a song and a dance because he was rated to low for the scheme he signed with in free agency, and he has made the prow bowl every year for me.

Also, I think you missed the point brettmickey. Kyle Williams is still an 89 overall and he will play like an 89 overall for you. Consider yourself lucky cause when it comes to contract time your not going to have to pay very much for a really good player. That 60 is basically a number you should not even pay attention to.

As long as Kyle Williams strength, power moves, block shedding, pursuit and play rec ratings are high I am sure he will play reasonably well for you.

Alright this is my other issue: how can I evaluate other players in my scheme when my scheme doesn't correctly make changes to their "overall"? If I didn't know how good Kyle Williams truly was, then I would think he fits horribly in my scheme. No matter what scheme I decided to run, Kyle Williams would look like a terrible option for my team when in fact he isn't a bad option at all when in the correct scheme. Even though the overall doesn't effect gameplay, it does effect the perception of players on my team. See what I'm saying?

If Kyle Williams was a free agent and he was down at a 60 overall, I might not even consider him for my team because he wouldn't fit in. And besides, an 89-91 overall DE that has absolutely NO player scheme they fit in to makes no sense at all! Shouldn't one of those schemes allow his overall to be close to his actual rating? Let me know if you get what I'm trying to say

Also, since players like Kyle Williams and other starters have low overalls, that's negatively affecting my fan happiness rating. If the scheme based overall worked properly, I would have no issues (last year I had no issues with it). But my entire d-line rating is a 68 which is grossly bogging down my team overall and hurting my fan happiness. It's a small issue that's causing other issues for me.

[slipknottin]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

So if overall is meaningless, why is it even in the game?

Either it should have a function or it should be eliminated.

[Caliboy626]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Alright this is my other issue: how can I evaluate other players in my scheme when my scheme doesn't correctly make changes to their "overall"? If I didn't know how good Kyle Williams truly was, then I would think he fits horribly in my scheme. No matter what scheme I decided to run, Kyle Williams would look like a terrible option for my team when in fact he isn't a bad option at all when in the correct scheme. Even though the overall doesn't effect gameplay, it does effect the perception of players on my team. See what I'm saying?

If Kyle Williams was a free agent and he was down at a 60 overall, I might not even consider him for my team because he wouldn't fit in. And besides, an 89-91 overall DE that has absolutely NO player scheme they fit in to makes no sense at all! Shouldn't one of those schemes allow his overall to be close to his actual rating? Let me know if you get what I'm trying to say

Also, since players like Kyle Williams and other starters have low overalls, that's negatively affecting my fan happiness rating. If the scheme based overall worked properly, I would have no issues (last year I had no issues with it). But my entire d-line rating is a 68 which is grossly bogging down my team overall and hurting my fan happiness. It's a small issue that's causing other issues for me.

I think in trade mode and trade block your team properly accesses the players rating to your scheme if I am not mistaken. You have some valid points brettmickey. There are reasons why I like scheme overall, and there are reason why I don't most of which you mentioned. It just seems like something we will have to deal with this year.

[PaulChildres]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I would highly doubt than any NFL team would rate the same player in the 60s while another rates him in the 90s if he's playing a similar position.

I agree with your entire post except this part. Reason being is because when I started following the Redskins a few years ago once they switched from 4-3 to 3-4 and they had DE/OLB Andre Carter on the team, he was decent in the 4-3 but as soon as they changed to a 3-4 he had absolutely 0 production. He then went to a NE Patriots team who fit him better and he was their leading sack guy.

Same thing with Jason Babin when he was in HOU/KC then went to Tennessee and had a breakout year.

Practice squad material for one team could = not only a starter but a top 5 player on the team depending on the scheme.

[brettmickey]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I think in trade mode and trade block your team properly accesses the players rating to your scheme if I am not mistaken. You have some valid points brettmickey. There are reasons why I like scheme overall, and there are reason why I don't most of which you mentioned. It just seems like something we will have to deal with this year.

It's unfortunate because it seemed to have worked last year without a problem, I don't know why a change of scheme doesn't change a player's overall. Oh well, hopefully someone at EA gets notified about this and can make a fix in the next update.

[bartone33]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I personally like the schemes. What I do is assign the type of scheme to each position that I want my team to play like. For example, I like to have pass rushing DE's so I'll set my DE's scheme to pass rusher. That way if they are a run stopping DE than they will not work well in my defense (even if they are really a 90 OVR). It is complicated, but it puts more strategy into the franchise.

[Hooe]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

So if overall is meaningless, why is it even in the game?

Either it should have a function or it should be eliminated.

It has two functions -

1 - by viewing the OVR rating, a user can make a snap judgment of a player and decide whether to play him, how much to play him, and what sort of performance to expect out of the player which can change how the user calls his game. For example, if I see my QB has a low OVR rating and I'm unfamiliar with his skill set, I definitely would put more emphasis on my running game.

2 - the OVR rating is essentially a grade assigned to the player's skill set. This grade, in combination with player age, the player's contract, and the salary cap, are used for purposes of roster management by the CPU. This is why scheme-specific OVRs are an integral part of the game, they are present to give each CPU-controlled team a roster management personality. It will prevent the Pittsburgh Steelers from acquiring a 4-3 OLB such as the Cowboys' Bruce Carter to play the 3-4 edge rusher position, as Carter is not suited for being deployed as a 3-4 edge rusher whatsoever. The scheme-specific OVR rating for 3-4 Pass Rusher OLB reflects this; Carter receives a low OVR grade with this scheme setting and receives a high OVR grade in the Cover 2 or Prototype scheme settings.

[slipknottin]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I know exactly what overall is supposed to do.

But if it's not accurate in any scheme then it becomes totally pointless.

People were already talking in this thread about just ignoring it.

[msdm27]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

It has two functions -

1 - by viewing the OVR rating, a user can make a snap judgment of a player and decide whether to play him, how much to play him, and what sort of performance to expect out of the player which can change how the user calls his game. For example, if I see my QB has a low OVR rating and I'm unfamiliar with his skill set, I definitely would put more emphasis on my running game.

2 - the OVR rating is essentially a grade assigned to the player's skill set. This grade, in combination with player age, the player's contract, and the salary cap, are used for purposes of roster management by the CPU. This is why scheme-specific OVRs are an integral part of the game, they are present to give each CPU-controlled team a roster management personality. It will prevent the Pittsburgh Steelers from acquiring a 4-3 OLB such as the Cowboys' Bruce Carter to play the 3-4 edge rusher position, as Carter is not suited for being deployed as a 3-4 edge rusher whatsoever. The scheme-specific OVR rating for 3-4 Pass Rusher OLB reflects this; Carter receives a low OVR grade with this scheme setting and receives a high OVR grade in the Cover 2 or Prototype scheme settings.

Very good explanation!

But I still haven't seen anyone explain the OP's problem.... Regardless of which scheme he chooses, the player stays at 60OVR.

This is not a matter of whether schemes are good or not, it seems to me as if the game is broken in that sense, the player's overall should fluctuate according to the scheme the team selects, right?

Also... OP, is this happening on ps3 or Xbox? I'll assume the former since all the issues seem to affect ps3 users.

[Caliboy626]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Very good explanation!

But I still haven't seen anyone explain the OP's problem.... Regardless of which scheme he chooses, the player stays at 60OVR.

This is not a matter of whether schemes are good or not, it seems to me as if the game is broken in that sense, the player's overall should fluctuate according to the scheme the team selects, right?

Also... OP, is this happening on ps3 or Xbox? I'll assume the former since all the issues seem to affect ps3 users.

This has been explained!!!! Position preferences are already hard coded to a coaches playbook. Bill Walsh ran a west coast scheme for years with the 49ers so let me just use him as example. Just because I go in and change the scheme preference to Long passing (West coast offense is a short throw scheme with quick timing reads) and my quarterback to big arm preference it will not make someone who has low awareness and bad short arm accuracy a good fit for the scheme I.E. the playbook does not fit the scheme or the player preferences I am choosing. Now If I fire Bill Walsh and bring in Don Coryel, then this change is going to make my big arm quarterback and downfield threats go up exponentially because the playbook fits the scheme I am running.

Therefore If I am running a 3-4 attack but I only have speed rushing 4-3 ends, I cant just go in and change my Devensive end preference to 4-3 speed rush to gain an overall boost. Its a system that is in place to make good personel decisions actually matter.

[brettmickey]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

It has two functions -

1 - by viewing the OVR rating, a user can make a snap judgment of a player and decide whether to play him, how much to play him, and what sort of performance to expect out of the player which can change how the user calls his game. For example, if I see my QB has a low OVR rating and I'm unfamiliar with his skill set, I definitely would put more emphasis on my running game.

2 - the OVR rating is essentially a grade assigned to the player's skill set. This grade, in combination with player age, the player's contract, and the salary cap, are used for purposes of roster management by the CPU. This is why scheme-specific OVRs are an integral part of the game, they are present to give each CPU-controlled team a roster management personality. It will prevent the Pittsburgh Steelers from acquiring a 4-3 OLB such as the Cowboys' Bruce Carter to play the 3-4 edge rusher position, as Carter is not suited for being deployed as a 3-4 edge rusher whatsoever. The scheme-specific OVR rating for 3-4 Pass Rusher OLB reflects this; Carter receives a low OVR grade with this scheme setting and receives a high OVR grade in the Cover 2 or Prototype scheme settings.

Very good explanation!

But I still haven't seen anyone explain the OP's problem.... Regardless of which scheme he chooses, the player stays at 60OVR.

This is not a matter of whether schemes are good or not, it seems to me as if the game is broken in that sense, the player's overall should fluctuate according to the scheme the team selects, right?

Also... OP, is this happening on ps3 or Xbox? I'll assume the former since all the issues seem to affect ps3 users.

@CM Hooe Excellent explanation of the scheme based rating system for anyone who is not understanding why the overall is different in CFM compared to play now.

@msdm27 I am on the 360 and I have the problem you stated above. No matter what scheme I choose, my player stays as a 60 overall whether the scheme fits his ratings or not.

[slipknottin]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

This has been explained!!!! Position preferences are already hard coded to a coaches playbook. Bill Walsh ran a west coast scheme for years with the 49ers so let me just use him as example. Just because I go in and change the scheme preference to Long passing (West coast offense is a short throw scheme with quick timing reads) and my quarterback to big arm preference it will not make someone who has low awareness and bad short arm accuracy a good fit for the scheme I.E. the playbook does not fit the scheme or the player preferences I am choosing. Now If I fire Bill Walsh and bring in Don Coryel, then this change is going to make my big arm quarterback and downfield threats go up exponentially because the playbook fits the scheme I am running.

Has this been tested? Or is this a hypothesis?

If true then this makes that scheme selection menu completely pointless and that should be removed from the game.

[brettmickey]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

This has been explained!!!! Position preferences are already hard coded to a coaches playbook. Bill Walsh ran a west coast scheme for years with the 49ers so let me just use him as example. Just because I go in and change the scheme preference to Long passing (West coast offense is a short throw scheme with quick timing reads) and my quarterback to big arm preference it will not make someone who has low awareness and bad short arm accuracy a good fit for the scheme I.E. the playbook does not fit the scheme or the player preferences I am choosing. Now If I fire Bill Walsh and bring in Don Coryel, then this change is going to make my big arm quarterback and downfield threats go up exponentially because the playbook fits the scheme I am running.

Therefore If I am running a 3-4 attack but I only have speed rushing 4-3 ends, I cant just go in and change my Devensive end preference to 4-3 speed rush to gain an overall boost. Its a system that is in place to make good personel decisions actually matter.

When I originally started up my CFM, it had our defensive scheme set as a base 4-3. So even if I change my base set to a 3-4 the overalls are going to be determined by a 4-3 defense???

[Caliboy626]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Has this been tested? Or is this a hypothesis?

If true then this makes that scheme selection menu completely pointless and that should be removed from the game.

I have done some testing with this years and last years game. But I will only use madden 25 as an example.

Dennis Allen playbook calls for a west coast offense. I do not know why because every Raider fan knows this year they are going back to a power run scheme. This makes Matt Flynn my highest rated quarterback. It even says under quarterback preference "West coast" values are based more on short accuracy, awareness, and player mobility I.E. Steve Young. Even if I change my quarterback preference to big arm Matt Flynn is still rated higher then Terrell Pryor because Dennis Allens playbook wants a west coast quarterback for his playbooks scheme.

I fired Dennis Allen at the end of the year and hired a coach who likes a downfield passing attack. Terrell Pryor was now my best "scheme overall" quarterback in the mid 80's because of his down field arm strength, and deep accuracy being higher than Matt Flynns. Jacoby ford because of his speed as a downfield threat now got bumped up to my top overall receiver when he was my third option at best during the season.

If you guys go to scheme and look at each position type preference it will tell you exactly what attributes the coaches value more for there scheme. Go and get the personnel to match, or fire your coach and bring in someone who fits your personel. This happens in the NFL all of the time.

At the end