Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

[chargerrich]

So I have spent the better part of the last two weeks with retro fever (thanks to no editing in M16) researching all the past gen (ps2) maddens and NCAA games to find the best combo for some long term franchise/draft class fun.

As part of this endeavor I have spent a couple of hours which each Madden starting with 2003 and ending with 2012. What struck me as truly amazing is how polished the rosters were with 07 and how sloppy and uncaring the EA team was with 12.

While I understand that M12 for the PS2 was merely an afterthought and a rush job for a dying console, I still could not believe how horribly inaccurate and random the rosters were and how cut and paste the game play is. That a company would not take the time to just make the game not look so ridiculous at even the most cursory examination before release is kind of unbelievable.

In nearly all facets 07 is better than 12 and its not even close.

Just a few examples:

1. Almost EVERY player including kickers have their body type/size slider set to maximum as though they just copied data and never even bothered to change them. Conversely in 07, I went through every team and barely had to make any changes because they were so on point.

2. Not only are the attributes wildly inaccurate but the rosters are so incredibly wrong. While I understand that 12 was probably "coded" during the player lockout in 2011 which would explain a lack of up to date transactions but that is no reason to not at least have good attributes on those players in the game.

3. And speaking of players in the game, there are missing players completely... i.e. Vince Young and nearly every mid to late round pick.

4. Oh and the commentary. Good god, I never thought I would play a madden game where I long for Phil Simms and Jim Nance, but M12 PS2 will do just that. Broken sentences and about 12 lines in total is all you get. Just Bad.

On the bright side, I know now for certain (IMO) that Madden 07 is the best old gen (6th?) Madden ever and I really appreciate how much care went into the game some 9 years ago!

[BenJ1356]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

I know this is a 4 year old post but i thought id share some thoughts for anybody looking for more info on
old game and wound up on this thread like I did. Its a little lengthy but here we go

I recently thought about getting madden 12 because I think the ps2 gameplay is the most enjoyable in the entire history of the series going all the way back to the snes and genesis era.
But 12 on ps2 is a lot more expensive than any other madden on that console. Last I checked it was around 25$ used at most stores or online outlets and all the other ps2 maddens can be had for a couple $$ at most. I also realized deep info on the ps2 version is next to impossible to find sorting through all the results that focus on the 360 and ps3 versions some sites dont even list it as a ps2 release.
I just figured 12 would be the best because it was the last release on the console but obviously a new year doesnt always mean a better game especially since the first ps3 madden was 07 (even tho it was trash) so the fact they kept making ps2 madden's all the way until 12 is odd.
I didn't realize until this year they made anything past 08 or 09 on ps2. Because I like many other gamers were eager to move to the "next gen" (which was and still is disappointing in my opinion) I in turn missed out on the last releases for the ps2 the last I had was 06.
But I actually got lucky and found a copy at a goodwill for 2$ and I must say in my limited time with it, its incredibly sloppy to say the least. It even gives you the option to import a draft class from ncaa football 2011. I guess because Ncaa 12 wasnt even made for the console? But most likely its because they didnt bother to take it out from the previous years game.
So this game is basically a copy of 11 with different rosters from what I gather so far I mean hell you can import rookies that should theoretically already exist on the game.
But Ive been looking for the "best" Madden on ps2, i loved 05 but I think the roster ratings are too high across the board, for example I think the worst starting qb on the game was like a 84. But thats really my only issue with the games i played most which was 03-06.
Lastly just a side note I bought a xbox360 at Launch sold my regular xbox to get it but luckily didnt sell my ps2. I wad super excited for madden 06 on 360. Which was a complete dumpster fire of a game and probably the biggest gaming letdown of my life. I took it back the day of and got a ps2 copy instead.

[omega412930]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

Madden 12 was prolly the best on the 360/ps3 era, I loved madden 05/03 on the ps2 Xbox era


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

The only downside of 07 is the sim stats.

The RB1/RB2 slider is broken, which leads to some really wild RB numbers. kinda wrecks long-term franchise playability.

.. M12 rosters are editable on the 360. I don't know why anyone would play it on PS2. (no offense!)

[montgom24]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

Question for madden 12 franchisers, do you play the roster as of that year, or do your edit it to the present day rosters? Thanks!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[PGaither84]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

1) No Madden is perfect, as we all know.
2) Madden 07 was my favorite for years. I got Josh Looman and Phil Frazer to sign my discs and covers when I went to the Community Event for Madden 11. I bought a used PS2 version on the cheap just so they could sign it and give it to my best friend who sold his copy. We would play on Xbox at my place and PS2 at his.
3) Both 07 and 12 have their strengths and weaknesses, but I feel Madden 12 shines above 07 when all is said and done.


What enchanted me about 07 was the solid PS2 era game play, especially for 2 players on the same TV, combined with a deep and overhauled franchise mode which was the best of its time in any sports game (that I know of).


The weekly radio show got stale for me quickly and the presentation has aged like milk. You had some archaic "smart phone" to interact with, but whatever. Instead, I loved the national and local newspapers, which again has aged with the times. Instead, what drew me into the 07 franchise mode the most were the player traits/roles.


Growing up, I was had was a senior in high school when Madden 02 came out on the Game Cube and I recall having a franchise mode where I traded Bryant Young for Brian Urlacher and draft picks because Young was something like a 97OVR DT and Urlacher was like an 84 or so rookie MLB. I also traded Jeff Garcia who was something like an 88 or 92 or whatever for rookie and #1 overall pick Michael Vick and draft picks. I then moved those draft picks for LT and stacked my team like a non-sim teenager having fun. However, in Madden 07, there were player roles tagged to rookies like "Future star" and "franchise QB" and even just the generic "First round pick, top 10 pick" or whatever which raised how highly the computer valued a player in a trade, not just their OVR rating.


There were other roles such as injury prone, fan favorite and so forth. A fan favorite would help with ticket sales and how happy hey were when you resigned them or upset if you cut them. There were so many ways that game play was changed on and off the field which made players feel more like sacks of numbers running into one another. This allowed me to immerse myself into franchise mode and made games feel like more than a collection of exhibition games.


Madden 12 brought back a lot of these ideas, adjusted them and made improvements. Dynamic Player performance is one such addition/improvement, though it was forgotten about once the game launched. Players have a Consistency start rating and a confidence rating. The consistency rating, as far as I can tell, is static and no players in any roster updates, including when Madden 13 and Madden 25 came out, ever had those ratings changed, even when they had proven over 2 or three years to warrant such a change. Confidence was what changed from week to week depending on the performance from the prior week(s). Players had hot and cold streaks both in game and from week to week. Players could enter the game on a cold streak, but you could feed them the rock and if they were doing well, could change to a hot streak in game and vise versa.


Consistency, as it was explained to me, was the likelihood that a player played up to their ability in a given game. You could play 10 games with a player who had 1 star of consistency and get various results in their performance, whereas Tom Brady and other 5 star guys brought their A game all the time.


Another in game feature of game play were Player traits. QBs had traits to see if they would scramble a lot or stay in the pocket, if they would throw the ball away and how well they sensed pressure. Defenders would have a yes/no check for having a "high motor" and how they played the ball in the air (aggressive/neutral/conservative) and the list goes on.


These player traits and DPP combined to keep player performance varied and more unique than just the same canned animations no matter who was out there. An aggressive CB who went for picks vs a conservative one who would go for swats and so forth.


There were also player roles, though they were reduced, they still had future start, top draft picks, injury prone and so forth which also impacted how they were seen off the field when making free agent moves and trades.


What really put Madden 12 over the top for me though is the draft. Teams will trade on draft day and you can trade for future picks. While the computer can be taken advantage of, I use a draft value chart I found online as my guide. Future picks are worth half of their mid round value, and until the bottom 21, current rounds picks can be traded for a future pick one round higher. So, if you have the 17th pick in the 7th round, then flip that for a future 6th. Take a mid or high 6th and flip it for a future 5th and so on.


I like to start my franchise by trading down and mostly out of the first round for a future pick and a late round pick. For example, using this 2011 chart if my team has the 10th pick (1300), then give me a future 1st round pick (15th pick value 1050 ÷ 2 = 2525) which leaves me with (1300-525) 775 points to play with. that means I look for who has a pick worth about 775 points, which are the 22nd/23rd picks at 780 or 760 respectively. That is an even trade in points, which means I also need to ask for something to sweeten the deal, which I try to take a pick 3 rounds deeper, in this case their 4th (58 points). So now I have flipped the 10th overall for the 22nd, a future 1st and the 4th pick. Now I flip that 22nd pick fora future 2nd and another 4th or 5th. I will make a 2nd round pick, but my goal is to get value for my 10th pick rather than just take a risk on a single player.


Before long, over a few seasons, I will have 20 draft picks of which I make 8-12 selections and flip the rest for future value. When I find a draft class I really like or free agency has caused me to cut a lot of talent, I will use 15+ of my picks and am forced to restart my collecting all over again, or mostly from scratch.


This is all something hat you cannot do in Madden 07, as is the heart of my game play experience. Especially when Madden on the field is a really flawed game no matter which version you are playing. Especially if you are accustomed to 2k5/2k8. I like the zone run game and improved defense of Madden 25, but that is still lacking in Madden 12 and is nonexistent in Madden 07. Instead, I just run the team, scout, trade and deal with free agency.


The scouting in Madden 12 is flawed, but I try to work around it:


1) Do not sort/scout by potential.


2) Not every position can be properly scouted. Another thread from back in the day broke down which positions to scout at which stages of the season. Unless you use the 5 individual workouts, you will never know a WR's route running, a CB's man/zone coverage, or a defensive lineman's block shedding, power moves or finesse move skills for pass rushing. Instead, I pretend that I am a GM who is good at identifying the talent which I can scout and use free agency and trades (Bill Belichick style) to target though players who are already in the NFL for those skills which I cannot target in the draft.


====================


Sorry for the long post, but I have stuck with last gen Madden and never bought into the PS4/XBoxOne and knew in my heart that current generation Madden was going to be bad. I was not wrong. I love my "last gen" Madden 12/25 and still get play out of them both.

[Cardot]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

I liked '12, but really HATED that DPP feature. I tend to play with quarters a little shorter than a pure sim experience. As a result, stats are a little low across the board....which inevitably triggered most of my offensive players to be "Cold" by midseason.

[reeshmd23]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

With the current madden DB editor I was able to convert a madden 2020 pc roster to madden 13 on vita. I'm sure it will also work for other versions.

[Chederer]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

I recommend 09 for the NCAA/Madden combo. There was a recent thread about last gen NCAA and someone made a great case for NCAA 09. Madden 09 is pretty well the same game as 07 and 08. It's everything you know and love about 07, minus Tony Bruno but plus Supersim. Player roles and traits, deep and fun gameplay, and all kinsd of game modes outside of franchise. Both Madden and NCAA have that actually.

Downsides for Madden 09 on PS2 are no Brett Favre and no Michael Vick (that was the Favre NY Jets year, but the game was released when Favre was technically retired and Vick was in prison), but you can create either guy. You can even create players in an ongoing Franchise mode, so you can add Vick mid-playthrough when he returns to the league IRL.

They actually patched Favre into the main roster later, but you had to have a PS2 connected to the internet, which was rare. I wonder how many memory cards exist out there with an updated ps2 roster file that has Brett Favre patched onto the Jets?

[mattjames2010]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

I recommend 09 for the NCAA/Madden combo. There was a recent thread about last gen NCAA and someone made a great case for NCAA 09. Madden 09 is pretty well the same game as 07 and 08. It's everything you know and love about 07, minus Tony Bruno but plus Supersim. Player roles and traits, deep and fun gameplay, and all kinsd of game modes outside of franchise. Both Madden and NCAA have that actually.

Downsides for Madden 09 on PS2 are no Brett Favre and no Michael Vick (that was the Favre NY Jets year, but the game was released when Favre was technically retired and Vick was in prison), but you can create either guy. You can even create players in an ongoing Franchise mode, so you can add Vick mid-playthrough when he returns to the league IRL.

They actually patched Favre into the main roster later, but you had to have a PS2 connected to the internet, which was rare. I wonder how many memory cards exist out there with an updated ps2 roster file that has Brett Favre patched onto the Jets?

The problem with NCAA 09 is how broken the sim stats are - college QBs are WAAAAAAAAAAAY too INT prone. Is there any fix to this, or is it similar to the Madden fix that you need to lower the CB and LB catch ratings?

As for Madden 09's Supersim, I remember it being absolute garbage. QBs getting sacked like 12 times a game and completely less than 50% of their passes. I never experimented with it too much, but I remember them kinda just tacking stuff on without much testing at that point since the PS3/Xbox 360 was the focus.

Personally, I think 08 is the sweet spot with the player roles but not as much broken and gimmicky stuff that came after - plus, there is a way you can actually convert NCAA 06 draft classes to work with Madden 08.

[xlvell]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

Hey @BenJ1356, I know you said that importing a draft class from "ncaa 2011" would work on Madden 12, but I just wanted to double check with you before I go out and spend money on the game. Have you been able to import a ncaa 2011 draft class to madden 12???

[mWolfe]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

Hey @BenJ1356, I know you said that importing a draft class from "ncaa 2011" would work on Madden 12, but I just wanted to double check with you before I go out and spend money on the game. Have you been able to import a ncaa 2011 draft class to madden 12???

You can import NCAA 11 draft class to Madden 12 on the PS2 I have both.

[chargerrich]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

The only downside of 07 is the sim stats.

The RB1/RB2 slider is broken, which leads to some really wild RB numbers. kinda wrecks long-term franchise playability.

Sadly this is true... in fact it looks like from M07 to the end of the PS2 editions, some coder working on Madden 07 - accidently - changed the RB1/RB2 to slider to - in fact - work like an RB1/FB1 slider but no one EVER fixed it through 6 more years!

Kind of amazing... and sloppy.

[KillerFart]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

In the midst of getting a PS2 repaired so I can play Madden 12. Which as close to real franchise mode as we can get in 2020. Sad!

[wcchamp2020]

Re: Madden 07 vs Madden 12 (PS2) WOW!

With the current madden DB editor I was able to convert a madden 2020 pc roster to madden 13 on vita. I'm sure it will also work for other versions.

Can anyone speak more to this? Are you able to convert rosters between versions? Looking for an updated roster for Madden 13 for PS3, and haven't been able to find anything. That would be awesome if I could convert from a different version.