Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

[Lisa_Bonami]

I dont know...I love how they did some things in NFL2K5 but I still felt the actual gameplay in 2K4 had more of an organic feel where anything could happen on any play...at least moreso than in 2K5. In 2k5, I saw alot of similar results from certain plays...hard to describe.

Anyways......Am I the only one that slightly favored the gameplay of 2K4 over 2K5?



And btw, does ALL PRO football tweak the gameplay even further over 2K4 and 2K5? Enough to make it an even much more organic, anything can happen on any play feel? the previous versions of 2K football had a very stiff and rubbery feel to the player collisions and movements

[baa7]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

Last year around this time, I got tired of the AI issues with 2K5, and started playing 2K4 instead. Without question, out of the box the game plays much better than 2K5. The CPU AI is top-notch, with the exception of the issue with never throwing long passes. I even prefer a number of graphical and presentation things about the game over 2K5.

But I went back to 2K5 after a few weeks. 2K4 has one HUGE programming glitch that I just can't get past: CPU defenders take bad pursuit angles on the sidelines. And a big part of my game plan is lobbing the ball to the HB near the sidelines, which is money in that game.

Anyway, the past year I've been using Finn's editor (thanks Finn! ) to make improvements to the CPU AI in 2K5. Things are at the point where I feel the CPU QB and DB AI issues are basically fixed now. And 2K5 overall is the better game by far, IMO. So I doubt I'll ever feel the urge or need to play 2K4 again.

[baa7]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

2K4 had more of an organic feel where anything could happen on any play...at least moreso than in 2K5. In 2k5, I saw alot of similar results from certain plays...hard to describe.

Not hard to understand though. I've been saying that since 2K5 came out. What's entirely obvious is VC set out to 'fix' some of the issues with 2K4, and they did it by programming AI cheats into 2K5.

And in some cases, they 'broke' the programming to fix the problems. Kick returns are the most obvious example. They gave the CPU kick defenders a speed and tackle boost/cheat, while dumbing down the User block protection programming. I've spent HOURS testing kickoffs. I lowered the CPU kickoff team's speed and tackle ratings way down - to 0 in some cases - yet the CPU still manages to catch and tackle User kick returners every time.

A couple more areas where cheats were programmed in include the CPU's ability to pick off passes, and to get into position to knock passes down (VC's form of jet-packing). But it's done differently than Madden's cheats. What VC did, is they programmed the User QB to throw the ball in the entirely wrong direction at times. Again, I've tested this extensively, and can tell you that a User QB will sometimes miss his target by as much as 10 yards sideways on a 10-15 yard pass (!). And of course, who is it that just happens to be standing there 10 yards off to the side, with open arms waiting for the INT? Why, the CPU LB of course!

[capa]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

If you use editor to tone down RB's, I think the game plays much better than 2K5 on the field. CPU QB's are better, DBs are more realistic. You lose nothing graphically in the 2K4 version...aside from the halftime/end game highlights show which is about the best thing about 2K5.

Finn's editors can correct alot of sins in 2K5...but out of the box, 2K4 is the better game if you don't want to spend hours editing attributes, etc (except for RB break tackle ratings).

C

[Nza]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

Yup for CPU gaming 2K4 was easily better. Something definitely went off in the AI department for 2K5, perhaps the arrival of VIP triggered it.

To be honest, 2K games have been like this ever since IMO. I haven't tried 2K8, but NBA and NHL 2K7 to me were, while great fun and the best in both of their respective sports, quite lacking in AI. NBA 2K7 sometimes is so predictable and ******** it hurts.

[baa7]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

If you use editor to tone down RB's, I think the game plays much better than 2K5 on the field. CPU QB's are better, DBs are more realistic. You lose nothing graphically in the 2K4 version...aside from the halftime/end game highlights show which is about the best thing about 2K5.

Finn's editors can correct alot of sins in 2K5...but out of the box, 2K4 is the better game if you don't want to spend hours editing attributes, etc (except for RB break tackle ratings).

C

I would agree with that. But again, the pursuit angle glitch in 2K4 is literally a gamekiller IMO. Impossible to play a football game when you know that every run up the sidelines will net you 15+ yards, and very often a TD.

[SoCal-Phenom]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

If you use editor to tone down RB's, I think the game plays much better than 2K5 on the field. CPU QB's are better, DBs are more realistic. You lose nothing graphically in the 2K4 version...aside from the halftime/end game highlights show which is about the best thing about 2K5.

Finn's editors can correct alot of sins in 2K5...but out of the box, 2K4 is the better game if you don't want to spend hours editing attributes, etc (except for RB break tackle ratings).

C

I thought 2K5 looked much nicer than 2k4 in many aspects. The player models, the football itself, the fields(grass), and the upclose shots after plays really made 2k5 shine imo - but thats just me:wink:

[hokupguy]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

i liked 2k5 more, it was a great game.

[e0820]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

I played 7 seasons of NFL2k4 on XBOX - I played 3 of my 7 seasons after I bought NFL2k5. Although I owned NFL2k5 for XBOX - I didnt start a season until after I bought it for PS2 for $3 and played it on PS3.

I would have to say I liked NFL2k4 better but 2k5 is right up there behind APF2k8

[K_GUN]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

yup

2k had more commentary

they had the proper grass (nexturf) for the bills (thats my franchise)

the AI was very good (minus no long passes)

[Cardot]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

One of the big problems I had with 2K4 was that the CPU never missed field goals. It wasn't so much the first 3 1/2 quarters that bothered me. But if the CPU was driving for a game winning FG, once they were inside the 35 it was pretty much a lock. I hated the idea that letting them score to leave myself time was the best strategy.

[baa7]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

One of the big problems I had with 2K4 was that the CPU never missed field goals.

Easily fixed with a couple of quick edits: Kicking Accuracy and Consistency

[Malignant]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

Apart from RB slider tweaks and reducing the accuracy and consistency for kickers, NFL 2K4 is pretty much a perfect game for me.

I miss watching the half-time and end-game highlights but I'm quite content with the still shots at half-time. Plus the draft is actually a pleasure to go through because of the AI logic, as teams actually look to fill holes on their roster rather than picking just QB, RB, DE and T in the 1st round (which is what happens in 2K5).

When on defense I prefer to play as a DT and it's actually quite challenging to play this position. Unlike in 2K5 where it just seems too easy to play as a DT or DE (and if you don't get past the O-line then you'll more than likely force the CPU to give away a 10-yard holding penalty instead).

I actually prefer the weather effects on 2K4. I think sunny games look great on 2K5 but I think 2K4 wins for the rain and snow. I don't like the way 2K5 has to always incorporate the fog when it rains, whereas the fog setting is actually adjustable on 2K4. Trying to kick a long field goal with the fog setting maxed out is always a good challenge.

I'm sure I'll think of some more positives later on but that's not to say that I don't like 2K5 because I do. I just think 2K4 was a much better game out of the box with only minor adjustments needed.

[Lisa_Bonami]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

I've been playing 2k5 alot lately after a long layoff from the game....I find this a good way to objectively see all the pros and cons of the game when you return to play after a long layoff.

The great thing that really hits you with the entire 2k series that madden could never touch was the immersive tackling system that really forces you to work at trying to bring down a ball carrier. Players seem to have more weight and momentum. There is no 'touch' tackling in 2K football....you want to make a tackle, you have to really work hard, hold down the X button, and even get assistance from teammates on the tougher runners....when you make an open field tackle at the legs, it's much more rewarding because its harder to do...plain and simple. this is what seperates 2K above madden.

The play calling is another area in which 2K shines over madden. You cant hedge as much in the 2k series and call a play that is going to equally cover the pass and run effectively as you can pretty much do at will in Madden. In 2k, proper play calling is rewarded and equally punished when called ineffectively.


Now, specifically in regards to 2K5, after playing alot lately, there are some things that I hope they really address going forward to elevate this game to even further heights.
One thing that I seem to notice alot, whether its due to the animation system or just the gameplay engine itself, is after while, you will start to see very systematic and repetitive outcomes to each play. Moreso, than even madden. maybe its due to a limited animation library, but I think it extents a bit further to the gameplay engine that seems to have all the players follow too much of the same scripted patterns on each play. The result seems to be a less organic and randomness to the gameplay.

It's almost if the game is limited to just a couple of outcomes per play. I seem to know exactly how certain pass plays will unfold every time I call them. For example, the SS will do the same back pedal and sweep over to try and swat the out pattern., ect. I know that these are things that players should be doing, its just that 2k5 seems to make them unfold more robotic and pattern-like than other games.

Perhaps the game could add some variety and some random animations to break up the systematic feel to every play. Let different things unfold during a play. Have a player stumble or slip from time to time. Have a player miss his assigned block and try to recover by blocking someone else....Add more randomness so the game doesnt feel so....deja vu.

What do u guys think?.....and has All Pro Football 2K8 addressed any of this?

[GB33]

Re: Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

I've said many times. If 2k4 had 2k5's running game that would be great. Or if 2k5 had 2k4's pocket I would be estatic. Primarily the latter so there would still be Finn's editor to keep the game "fresh".