An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

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  • spankdatazz22
    All Star
    • May 2003
    • 6219

    #1

    An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

    On the eve of our finally being able to see gameplay videos of 2K5, I wanted to give HUGE props to VC for something that goes practically unnoticed during the course of gameplay... the referees.

    I'm guessing others have noticed this before, but man, did VC do a great job with the referees. Do this: let the game play itself (I was playing Dolphins at Titans, daytime, 7min qtrs), and watch how the referees head track, follow a play, position themselves as the play occurs... it's almost on par with the OL/DL line play; it's (for lack of a better word)... beautiful.

    In fact, it almost seems as though the referees move better than the players, in terms of directional movement. They don't turn in 8 directions. They strafe. They turn their hips in the proper manner when following plays. When following a play while stationary, they turn in increments - they DON'T PIVOT. I got a big kick just watching the refs on different plays. Granted, they're running slower than the players on the field. But the effect of how the referees move in relation to the game is amazing. That VC could incorporate this type of subtle detail to improve upon the overall effect is why they deserve such praise. And I haven't even mentioned the sidelines...

    Just for kicks, I dusted off my copy of Madden 2004 to see if this was something that was common in each game (I'll BURN the game or use it in some high school gravity experiment before I trade it in to Electronics Boutique for the measly sum of $5). I tried using the same conditions. First of all, you don't get the ability to select any of the refs during replays - you sort of have to "follow" them w/the camera. It's almost comical how out of the play they are. There's no head tracking, and at times they're facing the complete opposite of the direction of the play. The thing is (as anyone that's played Madden would know) it seems the only time the ref comes into play is when he gets in the way of a pass play. It happens so often in Madden you'd think Tiburon inserted this kind of thing to give "realism" to the gameplay. Of course, since so many people hate it, it needs to be removed.

    It wasn't my intention to bash Madden in this thread, but seeing that this morning made me want to give props to VC for creating a game with so many football subleties that can easily be taken for granted. Thanks again VC, for a great 2k4 - stuff like this makes me anticipate 2K5 all the more...
    HBO's "The Wire" should rank as one of the top 10 shows EVER on tv - period

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  • jmood88
    Sean Payton: Retribution
    • Jul 2003
    • 34639

    #2
    Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

    I noticed this too. I read a story about which referees do which in sports illustrated (it was during the week of the superbowl) and when I simulated the superbowl they did exactly what they were supposed to do and they move like real referees. It's amazing the detail that vc puts into games.
    Originally posted by Blzer
    Let me assure you that I am a huge proponent of size, and it greatly matters. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

    If I went any bigger, it would not have properly fit with my equipment, so I had to optimize. I'm okay with it, but I also know what I'm missing with those five inches. :)

    Comment

    • jmood88
      Sean Payton: Retribution
      • Jul 2003
      • 34639

      #3
      Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

      I noticed this too. I read a story about which referees do which in sports illustrated (it was during the week of the superbowl) and when I simulated the superbowl they did exactly what they were supposed to do and they move like real referees. It's amazing the detail that vc puts into games.
      Originally posted by Blzer
      Let me assure you that I am a huge proponent of size, and it greatly matters. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

      If I went any bigger, it would not have properly fit with my equipment, so I had to optimize. I'm okay with it, but I also know what I'm missing with those five inches. :)

      Comment

      • jmood88
        Sean Payton: Retribution
        • Jul 2003
        • 34639

        #4
        Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

        I noticed this too. I read a story about which referees do which in sports illustrated (it was during the week of the superbowl) and when I simulated the superbowl they did exactly what they were supposed to do and they move like real referees. It's amazing the detail that vc puts into games.
        Originally posted by Blzer
        Let me assure you that I am a huge proponent of size, and it greatly matters. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

        If I went any bigger, it would not have properly fit with my equipment, so I had to optimize. I'm okay with it, but I also know what I'm missing with those five inches. :)

        Comment

        • GTheorenHobbes
          Banned
          • Jul 2002
          • 2572

          #5
          Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

          Good thread. I've never really noticed it before, but will keep my eye on the refs the next time that I play. Just a small detail, but appreciated all the same.

          Comment

          • GTheorenHobbes
            Banned
            • Jul 2002
            • 2572

            #6
            Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

            Good thread. I've never really noticed it before, but will keep my eye on the refs the next time that I play. Just a small detail, but appreciated all the same.

            Comment

            • GTheorenHobbes
              Banned
              • Jul 2002
              • 2572

              #7
              Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

              Good thread. I've never really noticed it before, but will keep my eye on the refs the next time that I play. Just a small detail, but appreciated all the same.

              Comment

              • **DONOTDELETE**
                Hall Of Fame
                • Sep 2025
                • 19598

                #8
                Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                spankdatazz22 said:
                On the eve of our finally being able to see gameplay videos of 2K5, I wanted to give HUGE props to VC for something that goes practically unnoticed during the course of gameplay... the referees.

                I'm guessing others have noticed this before, but man, did VC do a great job with the referees. Do this: let the game play itself (I was playing Dolphins at Titans, daytime, 7min qtrs), and watch how the referees head track, follow a play, position themselves as the play occurs... it's almost on par with the OL/DL line play; it's (for lack of a better word)... beautiful.

                In fact, it almost seems as though the referees move better than the players, in terms of directional movement. They don't turn in 8 directions. They strafe. They turn their hips in the proper manner when following plays. When following a play while stationary, they turn in increments - they DON'T PIVOT. I got a big kick just watching the refs on different plays. Granted, they're running slower than the players on the field. But the effect of how the referees move in relation to the game is amazing. That VC could incorporate this type of subtle detail to improve upon the overall effect is why they deserve such praise. And I haven't even mentioned the sidelines...

                Just for kicks, I dusted off my copy of Madden 2004 to see if this was something that was common in each game (I'll BURN the game or use it in some high school gravity experiment before I trade it in to Electronics Boutique for the measly sum of $5). I tried using the same conditions. First of all, you don't get the ability to select any of the refs during replays - you sort of have to "follow" them w/the camera. It's almost comical how out of the play they are. There's no head tracking, and at times they're facing the complete opposite of the direction of the play. The thing is (as anyone that's played Madden would know) it seems the only time the ref comes into play is when he gets in the way of a pass play. It happens so often in Madden you'd think Tiburon inserted this kind of thing to give "realism" to the gameplay. Of course, since so many people hate it, it needs to be removed.

                It wasn't my intention to bash Madden in this thread, but seeing that this morning made me want to give props to VC for creating a game with so many football subleties that can easily be taken for granted. Thanks again VC, for a great 2k4 - stuff like this makes me anticipate 2K5 all the more...

                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                Now THAT'S the type of thinking ol' Goober likes!

                I'll have to look out for that in more detail next time. But, yes, they do indeed strafe and if I remember correctly, they seem to strafe better than the defenders! But let's hope that 2k5 has incorporated this good movement for the players, and if not...

                ... There's always 2k6.

                Comment

                • **DONOTDELETE**
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Sep 2025
                  • 19598

                  #9
                  Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                  spankdatazz22 said:
                  On the eve of our finally being able to see gameplay videos of 2K5, I wanted to give HUGE props to VC for something that goes practically unnoticed during the course of gameplay... the referees.

                  I'm guessing others have noticed this before, but man, did VC do a great job with the referees. Do this: let the game play itself (I was playing Dolphins at Titans, daytime, 7min qtrs), and watch how the referees head track, follow a play, position themselves as the play occurs... it's almost on par with the OL/DL line play; it's (for lack of a better word)... beautiful.

                  In fact, it almost seems as though the referees move better than the players, in terms of directional movement. They don't turn in 8 directions. They strafe. They turn their hips in the proper manner when following plays. When following a play while stationary, they turn in increments - they DON'T PIVOT. I got a big kick just watching the refs on different plays. Granted, they're running slower than the players on the field. But the effect of how the referees move in relation to the game is amazing. That VC could incorporate this type of subtle detail to improve upon the overall effect is why they deserve such praise. And I haven't even mentioned the sidelines...

                  Just for kicks, I dusted off my copy of Madden 2004 to see if this was something that was common in each game (I'll BURN the game or use it in some high school gravity experiment before I trade it in to Electronics Boutique for the measly sum of $5). I tried using the same conditions. First of all, you don't get the ability to select any of the refs during replays - you sort of have to "follow" them w/the camera. It's almost comical how out of the play they are. There's no head tracking, and at times they're facing the complete opposite of the direction of the play. The thing is (as anyone that's played Madden would know) it seems the only time the ref comes into play is when he gets in the way of a pass play. It happens so often in Madden you'd think Tiburon inserted this kind of thing to give "realism" to the gameplay. Of course, since so many people hate it, it needs to be removed.

                  It wasn't my intention to bash Madden in this thread, but seeing that this morning made me want to give props to VC for creating a game with so many football subleties that can easily be taken for granted. Thanks again VC, for a great 2k4 - stuff like this makes me anticipate 2K5 all the more...

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  Now THAT'S the type of thinking ol' Goober likes!

                  I'll have to look out for that in more detail next time. But, yes, they do indeed strafe and if I remember correctly, they seem to strafe better than the defenders! But let's hope that 2k5 has incorporated this good movement for the players, and if not...

                  ... There's always 2k6.

                  Comment

                  • **DONOTDELETE**
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Sep 2025
                    • 19598

                    #10
                    Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

                    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                    spankdatazz22 said:
                    On the eve of our finally being able to see gameplay videos of 2K5, I wanted to give HUGE props to VC for something that goes practically unnoticed during the course of gameplay... the referees.

                    I'm guessing others have noticed this before, but man, did VC do a great job with the referees. Do this: let the game play itself (I was playing Dolphins at Titans, daytime, 7min qtrs), and watch how the referees head track, follow a play, position themselves as the play occurs... it's almost on par with the OL/DL line play; it's (for lack of a better word)... beautiful.

                    In fact, it almost seems as though the referees move better than the players, in terms of directional movement. They don't turn in 8 directions. They strafe. They turn their hips in the proper manner when following plays. When following a play while stationary, they turn in increments - they DON'T PIVOT. I got a big kick just watching the refs on different plays. Granted, they're running slower than the players on the field. But the effect of how the referees move in relation to the game is amazing. That VC could incorporate this type of subtle detail to improve upon the overall effect is why they deserve such praise. And I haven't even mentioned the sidelines...

                    Just for kicks, I dusted off my copy of Madden 2004 to see if this was something that was common in each game (I'll BURN the game or use it in some high school gravity experiment before I trade it in to Electronics Boutique for the measly sum of $5). I tried using the same conditions. First of all, you don't get the ability to select any of the refs during replays - you sort of have to "follow" them w/the camera. It's almost comical how out of the play they are. There's no head tracking, and at times they're facing the complete opposite of the direction of the play. The thing is (as anyone that's played Madden would know) it seems the only time the ref comes into play is when he gets in the way of a pass play. It happens so often in Madden you'd think Tiburon inserted this kind of thing to give "realism" to the gameplay. Of course, since so many people hate it, it needs to be removed.

                    It wasn't my intention to bash Madden in this thread, but seeing that this morning made me want to give props to VC for creating a game with so many football subleties that can easily be taken for granted. Thanks again VC, for a great 2k4 - stuff like this makes me anticipate 2K5 all the more...

                    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                    Now THAT'S the type of thinking ol' Goober likes!

                    I'll have to look out for that in more detail next time. But, yes, they do indeed strafe and if I remember correctly, they seem to strafe better than the defenders! But let's hope that 2k5 has incorporated this good movement for the players, and if not...

                    ... There's always 2k6.

                    Comment

                    • MercilessMagal
                      Rookie
                      • May 2004
                      • 57

                      #11
                      Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

                      Different thread... nice points and good observation there... i turned the game on just to check this out and it is VERY interesting.. you are right, they NEVER pivot like the players... thanks for posting this and mad props to VC.

                      Comment

                      • MercilessMagal
                        Rookie
                        • May 2004
                        • 57

                        #12
                        Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

                        Different thread... nice points and good observation there... i turned the game on just to check this out and it is VERY interesting.. you are right, they NEVER pivot like the players... thanks for posting this and mad props to VC.

                        Comment

                        • MercilessMagal
                          Rookie
                          • May 2004
                          • 57

                          #13
                          Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

                          Different thread... nice points and good observation there... i turned the game on just to check this out and it is VERY interesting.. you are right, they NEVER pivot like the players... thanks for posting this and mad props to VC.

                          Comment

                          • marcuscoleman
                            Rookie
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 24

                            #14
                            Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

                            On an interception return I had the misfortune of finding a ref taking away the sideline, and came off the worse for wear in my attempt to run over him, got bounced into the arms of the pursuit.

                            Comment

                            • marcuscoleman
                              Rookie
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 24

                              #15
                              Re: An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

                              On an interception return I had the misfortune of finding a ref taking away the sideline, and came off the worse for wear in my attempt to run over him, got bounced into the arms of the pursuit.

                              Comment

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