NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

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  • mika77
    Rookie
    • Oct 2010
    • 30

    #16
    Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

    thanks to the NBA 2K series rating guideline and after looking at the official NFL 2k5 player ratings i have been able to define a rating guideline for NFL 2K5. Keep in mind i want to stick with the original philosophy .

    95-99 Greatest of all Time ( future all of famer without a doubt)
    90-94 superstar, multiple time probowl
    85-89 star , pro bowl alternate
    80-84 above average starter
    75-79 average starter and 1st round rookies
    70-74 below average starter , above average backup(starter potential) and situationnal role player (nickel, 3rd down pass rusher) 2nd round rookies
    60-69 average backup (2nd team) and 3/4 round rookies
    50-59 below average backup (3rd team) and 5/6 round rookies
    40-49 end of bench, practice squad player , 7th round and undrafted rookies

    once again , i wanted a realistic rating guideline sticking with the original 2k5 philosophy.

    any thoughts?

    Comment

    • mika77
      Rookie
      • Oct 2010
      • 30

      #17
      Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

      Originally posted by chibears96
      Yes I used this somewhat when editing my rosters though his ratings are out there sometimes like calling Sproles the best RB in the league, but still reliable. You should ask Gillbold for permission to use his rosters as a base since you can use his in franchise, and starting from scratch is a daunting task.
      you have read in my mind, i asked him this morning if i could use his work! and he said yes!

      Comment

      • mika77
        Rookie
        • Oct 2010
        • 30

        #18
        Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

        I've started some editing and i've found out that the rating guideline needed to be tweaked in the lower ratings. certains positions have a lot of below 70 OVR starter and i've also found out below 40 OVR players so based on 2K5 official ratings here is the updated guideline for my 2k13 rosters :

        95-99 Greatest of all Time ( future all of famer without a doubt)
        90-94 superstar, multiple time probowl
        85-89 star , pro bowl alternate
        80-84 above average starter
        75-79 average starter and 1st round rookies
        70-74 below average starter and some rotational role player (nickel back, 3rd down pass rusher, blocking TE for example) and 2nd round rookies
        60-69 above average backup(starter potential) and 3/4 round rookies , basically the second stringers
        50-59 average backup and 5/6 round rookies , basically the third stringers
        40-49 below average backup and 7th round rookies , basically the 4th stringers with a menbership for healthy scratch on gameday.
        35-40 end of bench, practice squad player , 7th round and undrafted rookies

        Comment

        • Rickster101
          MVP
          • Sep 2003
          • 4203

          #19
          Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

          This sounds like a good idea in principle and it has been done before just not lately but by other her guys who have edited rosters in previous years long before Gill and I'm sure he is aware of this fact.

          I among a long standing group of fellow members have been at this for a very long time including the creator of the NFL 2k editor Finn himself who started off editing Hockey rosters back in the day and gave us this modding tool commonly known as the "Finn Editor".

          My point being that even tho there are a few current and recent rosters available now there are still quite a few archived at Dolphins 2k5 roster site and should be looked at along with the tons of info and knowledge left and discussed by these gentlemen who should not be forgotten amongst the best in my opinion is Puja21 who is practically a legend known to those of us who have dedicated time and effort creating and editing 2k rosters.

          Don't find yourself limited confined and/or constricted to just one roster or concept in idea or principle.

          Your presentation here shows a true passion to wanting a better way of doing rosters and should be viewed as such but keep in mind the many past, present and current members who still come here checking out and chiming in on whats currently going on with rosters still being edited and updated yearly their contributions should not be dismissed or forgotten and can prove to be helpful in your quest to perfect and improve on a legacy still on going.

          Knowledge and knowing is power.....Absolute power is corrupt and destructive....



          The Boss....Lead Man
          Rickster101
          Rickster101
          The One and Only
          "Class is now in session"
          ____________________
          Now currently playing:NCAA 2009 Madden 2009 EA SPORTS HEAD COACH ESPN NFL 2K5/6/7,ESPN NBA 2K8,NBA Live09

          Comment

          • chibears96
            Pro
            • Oct 2010
            • 584

            #20
            Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

            Originally posted by Rickster101
            This sounds like a good idea in principle and it has been done before just not lately but by other her guys who have edited rosters in previous years long before Gill and I'm sure he is aware of this fact.

            I among a long standing group of fellow members have been at this for a very long time including the creator of the NFL 2k editor Finn himself who started off editing Hockey rosters back in the day and gave us this modding tool commonly known as the "Finn Editor".

            My point being that even tho there are a few current and recent rosters available now there are still quite a few archived at Dolphins 2k5 roster site and should be looked at along with the tons of info and knowledge left and discussed by these gentlemen who should not be forgotten amongst the best in my opinion is Puja21 who is practically a legend known to those of us who have dedicated time and effort creating and editing 2k rosters.

            Don't find yourself limited confined and/or constricted to just one roster or concept in idea or principle.

            Your presentation here shows a true passion to wanting a better way of doing rosters and should be viewed as such but keep in mind the many past, present and current members who still come here checking out and chiming in on whats currently going on with rosters still being edited and updated yearly their contributions should not be dismissed or forgotten and can prove to be helpful in your quest to perfect and improve on a legacy still on going.

            Knowledge and knowing is power.....Absolute power is corrupt and destructive....



            The Boss....Lead Man
            Rickster101
            Well said as always Rickster I hope more guys will continue producing rosters weather or not they use someones as a base or not you got to love a variety of ideas and rosters. Best of luck with your project.

            Comment

            • mika77
              Rookie
              • Oct 2010
              • 30

              #21
              Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

              Originally posted by Rickster101
              This sounds like a good idea in principle and it has been done before just not lately but by other her guys who have edited rosters in previous years long before Gill and I'm sure he is aware of this fact.

              I among a long standing group of fellow members have been at this for a very long time including the creator of the NFL 2k editor Finn himself who started off editing Hockey rosters back in the day and gave us this modding tool commonly known as the "Finn Editor".

              My point being that even tho there are a few current and recent rosters available now there are still quite a few archived at Dolphins 2k5 roster site and should be looked at along with the tons of info and knowledge left and discussed by these gentlemen who should not be forgotten amongst the best in my opinion is Puja21 who is practically a legend known to those of us who have dedicated time and effort creating and editing 2k rosters.

              Don't find yourself limited confined and/or constricted to just one roster or concept in idea or principle.

              Your presentation here shows a true passion to wanting a better way of doing rosters and should be viewed as such but keep in mind the many past, present and current members who still come here checking out and chiming in on whats currently going on with rosters still being edited and updated yearly their contributions should not be dismissed or forgotten and can prove to be helpful in your quest to perfect and improve on a legacy still on going.

              Knowledge and knowing is power.....Absolute power is corrupt and destructive....



              The Boss....Lead Man
              Rickster101
              Thanks for your thought, it means a lot coming from a legend like you in the 2k5 communauty.
              As i wrote it in my first post, i give all the credits of previous and past guys that have done a tremendous job on creating rosters and editing rosters, i have downloaded most of them and they are all great and unique.I will never have the pretention of doing better, i just came to the conclusion that we lost somewhere the initial philosophy of the original 2k5.

              My point in this project is just that i feel that recent update have players ratings way to different than in the 2k5 original game. i know there is a lot of theory saying that 2k conceptors should not be viewing as the perfect rating guru but i think it was that rating philosophy that was a big part of the success of this game and why we love it so much.

              with such a project you've got to understand that the OVR ratings is the focal point . i have never been a stat psychopat, maybe because too much super workout warriors have been super bust in my ravens team so far. So i had to decide what i really want.

              I decided that the OVR rating is the best way to have an homogeonous roster, playable and precise enough to create real game strategy (with few sliders adjustment)

              to stick with the original 2k5 philosophy wich was for exemple the obligation to play with a QB1 with only 70 OVR rating like for the ravens (boller) or the cowboys for example forced us to play with this team philosophy and that was the beauty of 2k5. i mean even if i love the saints or packers playbook, i wanted to play the way my ravens played. i can't even imagine the reactions of today madden addict player if their team had a QB rated 70!
              of course as a die hard fan my premiere reaction at Boller rating was : WTF! but now more than 6 years later i can tell you that this original 2k5 roster was pretty accurate based on game performance and influence not on combine results.

              well i know i'm a bit messy in my demonstration, but i wanted to find a way to create an actual roster without the feeling of something was wrong and without the need of reguraly editing players to boost them up especially my favorite player.

              i know it's totally my point of view but for example if i create Cary williams the ravens starting corner who has only one interception in all his carreer and who is getting beaten reguraly , i'm feeling ok to rate him low and if i feel the urge of boosting him i just have to take a look at the original 2k5 roster ratings to see that there was ton of starters CB that were rated in the low 70 or the high 60.

              i guess my problem is the perception of the OVR ratings and thats why i think the rating guideline i've published wich is based on the official nba 2k series rating guideline is a good start to understand the 2k5 philosophy.

              we tend to think that an nfl starter should be rated 80 at least... i now think that an average nfl starter should be rated 70. to get to this rating we have to adjust some crucial caracteristic of the player and to accept that the result with these caracteristic will not match with the combine results of this player. that's the most difficult thing to understand here. but that's the only way to obtain these rollercoster rating wich create the realism and particularity of each team at each position.

              i'm also encouraged by the results of the simulations of a lot of franchise season i've done with the original 2k5 rosters wich ,with some sliders adjustement, are pretty realistics.

              So let the fun begins...

              Comment

              • mika77
                Rookie
                • Oct 2010
                • 30

                #22
                Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                I'm looking for the original nfl 2k5 players list with all their attribute in pdf format ?

                it would be a very helpfull source for me and a huge gain of time.

                let me know if someone has that list...

                cheers

                Comment

                • mika77
                  Rookie
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 30

                  #23
                  Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                  i got it : i've find the last official 2k5 update by visual concept in 2k5rosters.com and thanks to finn's editor i'm able to export the data in excel board! that's awesome i will have my database starting point and point of comparaison for editing the 2k13 players ratings...

                  Comment

                  • mika77
                    Rookie
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 30

                    #24
                    Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                    been working a lot on data so far. i've have edited an excell sheet with all the players of the original 2k5 sorted by position and with all their attribute.

                    i have now a perfect picture of the guideline rating and the correspondant attribute for each player.

                    i am now picking for each guideline rating range 3 to five player , basically each type of player at the same position.

                    for example , based on 2k5 official rating :

                    for the 99-95 range : we have peyton manning and brett favre . manning is a throwback type player while brett favre is more a balanced QB. no pure scrambler in this rating range. i will use their attributes as base for the 2k13 player with the same ratings wich will probably be brady and rodgers and maybe brees...

                    for the 90-94 range : we have culpepper , vick and mcnabb wich are good base for the 2k13 superstar scrambler even if i'm not sure 2k13 scrambling Qb deserve to be rated so high.

                    and so goes on, you understand the drill...

                    Comment

                    • mika77
                      Rookie
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 30

                      #25
                      Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                      the different type of player at each position :

                      QB : classic throwback, gunslinger , scrambler and balanced

                      O- LINE : pass protector , run protector , balanced

                      TE : in line classic TE , hybrid WR/TE , blocker only TE

                      WR: speedy elusive , possession/slot , deep threat

                      RB/FB: north/south , scat back basically power or elusive or balanced

                      DT/DE/OLB: bull rusher, pass rusher , edge setter/run stopper , balanced

                      ILB : pass rusher/run stopper/coverage LB

                      CB: zone cover corner, shutdown, man coverage corner , balanced

                      SS/FS : cover safety, run support safety, big hitter , ball hawk

                      i need now to sort each player of 2k5 to be able to translate the results for the 2k13 player.

                      once again don't hesitate to give me your thought,

                      cheers

                      Comment

                      • GillBoldberg
                        MVP
                        • Aug 2012
                        • 1135

                        #26
                        Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                        Like I've said before, good luck with this project. OVR's aren't the definitive measure of a player, at least in my opinion. I like the scale and it's a good start but individual attributes are much more important. It seems like you understand that since your above post has the diff type of position players, you'll just need to figure out what attributes to tweak to turn a player into a certain type of player.

                        Comment

                        • mika77
                          Rookie
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 30

                          #27
                          Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                          with the excell sheet of the official 2k5 roster and all the attribute players sorted per position, it's easy to see wich attributes are important at each different position and wich are evolving regarding the styles of play of the player...

                          but like i wrote before all the guys have done a tremendous job on editing rosters since 2004-2005 but the rating philosophy tend to be more of a madden philosophy right now . basially if we had sticked to the 2k5 original rosters by just copying original players attribute matching with new players and just creating draft classes with attribbute matching original rookie 2k5 players we would have today some rosters respecting the philosophy of visual concept.
                          but yesterday i have taken a look at all the rosters made so far and we quickly deviate from the original ratings philosophy.

                          So here is my question of the day for all the guy mastering Finn's editor : is there any way to copy , from an excell sheet for example all the attribute of a player and to paste them in flinn's editor without modificting players information?

                          for example : again i really think ray lewis 2k5 attribute would match greatly for an actual 2k13 patrick willis.

                          is there a way i copy the ray lewis attribute from visual concept roster file and i paste them in a 2k13 roster file like yours for example ?

                          the 2k5 roster was super deep at all position to find a matching player for all the actual 2k13 player.

                          i've checked so far for QB and runners and it's very easy to find an accurate match beetween 2k5 players and 2k13 players. only very little or none tweaking would be required, just to personalize a little them.
                          Last edited by mika77; 10-08-2012, 01:42 AM.

                          Comment

                          • GillBoldberg
                            MVP
                            • Aug 2012
                            • 1135

                            #28
                            Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                            Originally posted by mika77
                            So here is my question of the day for all the guy mastering Finn's editor : is there any way to copy , from an excell sheet for example all the attribute of a player and to paste them in flinn's editor without modificting players information?
                            Yeah, you just have to open the 2 files in Finn's, right click on the player you want to copy, then in the other file, right click on a player and choose paste - attributes only. Should work fine.

                            Comment

                            • mika77
                              Rookie
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 30

                              #29
                              Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                              that's HUGE !!!! this is gonna save me tons of time !!!!!!!!!! thank you!!!!

                              Comment

                              • lhslancers
                                Banned
                                • Nov 2011
                                • 3589

                                #30
                                Re: NEW 2K13 PROJECT TO KEEP THE PHILOSOPHY OF 2K5 ratings

                                Originally posted by mika77
                                that's HUGE !!!! this is gonna save me tons of time !!!!!!!!!! thank you!!!!
                                Good luck with the project. I would be careful of just copying previous players and just slapping another name on them. While players can be similar there are many differences. Otherwise why would there be so many categories to change?

                                Best of luck.

                                Comment

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