Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

[hatisback]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

You still need standard mocaps to make this look like football because there are some movements that have to be very deliberate. You cannot completely leave this up to randomization, and the vids we've seen so far show us quite a few things that are over-the-top despite the refusal of the early bandwagoners to accept it.

Also, until real players are used in some way beyond mocap and calculated physics (which I think will happen sooner rather than later) it's never going to entirely satisfy what people are hoping for.

No matter what, the game still has to play well, and none of us know how it plays yet. Could be great, could be garbage. I just don't understand a lot of the premature proclamations of greatness. We haven't even seen unedited 11-on-11 gameplay yet... I'd say that makes it too early to declare it king.

Well, Madden plays like garbage, just like the AI does with all of it's cheats, so even if it plays at the level of garbage Madden does Euphoria makes it better garbage.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

Well, Madden plays like garbage, just like the AI does with all of it's cheats, so even if it plays at the level of garbage Madden does Euphoria makes it better garbage.

LOL.

It may be too late for me to say this, but don't get your hopes too high... that's all I can tell you.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

The whole fight for yardage argument by EA is interesting. I don't remember seeing any interactions that weren't the epic "full steam ahead" explosions of glory that Backbreaker basically now trademarks .

What happens on interactions where they are lighter. Can we get extended driving of a defender and not just one instant collision after another? Very interesting thought.

If they nail gang tackling in Backbreaker... that game will be hard to put down. Gang tackling is mroe than a short collision. How many times do RB's grind for extra yards with men on them? Every single game. Can Backbreaker pull that off organically?

[Tito78]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

You still need standard mocaps to make this look like football because there are some movements that have to be very deliberate. You cannot completely leave this up to randomization, and the vids we've seen so far show us quite a few things that are over-the-top despite the refusal of the early bandwagoners to accept it.

Also, until real players are used in some way beyond mocap and calculated physics (which I think will happen sooner rather than later) it's never going to entirely satisfy what people are hoping for.

No matter what, the game still has to play well, and none of us know how it plays yet. Could be great, could be garbage. I just don't understand a lot of the premature proclamations of greatness. We haven't even seen unedited 11-on-11 gameplay yet... I'd say that makes it too early to declare it king.

What makes me have confidence is the fact that this game has been in development for 3 years. It seems like they're dotting every i and crossing every t.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

Yeah clipping between mo-cap and euphoria has to be difficult to mitigate. We'll see what they can do! I'm glad to see they put years into this game, and didn't just pound out a one and done incomplete game in a few months. Hopefully they start showing some impressive gameplay. After reading their control ideas.... I like them a lot. Moving the QB's head and passing differently could be a lot of fun.

[JEM]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

Lets face it... EA threw out ProTak as a weak counter to what the guys at Backbreaker are doing.. But EAs system is full of fail and then some. Whether or not BB can pull it off or not is yet to be seen but I think it will be good either way.

If EA wants to come up with a better tackling system ( better than pro tak ) then they should atleast use something like endorphin so they can create animations without mocapping every last one of them ( I reckon 2K5 used that..? ).

[t11]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

Endo didn't exist back in 05 if I remember correctly.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

I liked Pro-Tak a lot. Then again, I've never played or seen real gameplay footage of Backbreaker so no judgment can really be made. Of course in theory a totally organic physics system sounds unbelievable.

[43Chargers4Now]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

Well I hope the physics engine is also put into the passing aspect of Backbreaker. There should be an arch on the ball.

You know something that makes me SUPER EXCITED???? The throwing is going to be used on the right stick. You pull back and let it RIP!!!!!!!!! If they make throw power and throw accuracy depend on the way and how hard you flick the right stick, INSTANT SUCCESS. That would add a whole extra layer to the game that madden doesn't and may never have. Maybe a deepball will now take your hardest push up on the right stick to put enough torque on the ball to get it to the receiver and short passes such as RB and TE screens will now take gentle precision. Just awesome.

I also would like to see if it is actually possible to truck someone in Backbreaker. It seems like there is only Jukes, spins and hurdles that can be utilized. AAAAAND I would like to see if different teams will have different sets of players. I hope they will have Speed backs that are maybe thinner and short and PUNISHING backs that always get those extra two yards but won't out run many people. So many things I am hoping for, so little time.

Oh yeah, and if it's not too much A DEMO

[Skyboxer]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

Well I hope the physics engine is also put into the passing aspect of Backbreaker. There should be an arch on the ball.

You know something that makes me SUPER EXCITED???? The throwing is going to be used on the right stick. You pull back and let it RIP!!!!!!!!! If they make throw power and throw accuracy depend on the way and how hard you flick the right stick, INSTANT SUCCESS. That would add a whole extra layer to the game that madden doesn't and may never have. Maybe a deepball will now take your hardest push up on the right stick to put enough torque on the ball to get it to the receiver and short passes such as RB and TE screens will now take gentle precision. Just awesome.

I also would like to see if it is actually possible to truck someone in Backbreaker. It seems like there is only Jukes, spins and hurdles that can be utilized. AAAAAND I would like to see if different teams will have different sets of players. I hope they will have Speed backs that are maybe thinner and short and PUNISHING backs that always get those extra two yards but won't out run many people. So many things I am hoping for, so little time.

Oh yeah, and if it's not too much A DEMO

If BB (or any FB game) had that I would be in heaven...

[dfos81]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

I may need to get a new controller every week, if its based on how hard you flick it . Ratings need to matter more so imo.

[Hashmeer99]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

EA isn't sold on Euphoria, nothing to get your hopes up about.

Well, why would you want to compliment competition? Also, if they don't have to purchase the right to use Euphoria (which they don't, because they can just as easily continue with their own canned animations), why would they tell the world they like it? Think about it. If EA says that they like Euphoria, it could mean that they want to add it into their game. But WHY would they want to do this unless they are FORCED to? Since they have not been forced to do that yet, they are not going to tell their potential customers that another company has a better football engine then they do.

[wintacs]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

What does animation have to do with the real problem? How well the computer plays against you or with you. What are they trying to do to stop the cpu cheating on higher game levels? I think you should use a chess style cpu. Where it calculates moves you have made and what is logical to do next.

[t11]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

Believe me, animation have decided games in the past. Like rocket catch for instance. Or the DB spin-accelerate thing. It matters. In a game where what each player is doing determines the outcome of a play, animation rule the outcome.

[metallicatz]

Re: Euphoria vs Pro Tack Tackling Revisited

FYI, tackling physics doesn't constitute AI......and it's only a small component of a blanket term like "gameplay". A physics engine isn't going to dictate how players react to the multitude of in-game football scenarios. All it will dictate is what happens when players make contact with eachother. It won't control how DB's or linebackers pursue on a play or react to the football in any way.

The Madden haters are amusing. Pro Tak is, at this time, the best tackling engine in the history of football games. Like any other element in any other game ever produced (be it sports or otherwise), it has a few flaws here and there. Breaking out of a large group of tacklers is a rare occurance when you're playing on a setting of any real difficulty. But hey, keep ruining games for yourselves with your bias. You're only cheating yourself.

Backbreaker may end up being pretty good, but it's just a tad soon to be making comparisons like this.