The Smashmouth Project

[TheWatcher]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

to the watcher thanks for taking time to answer my question. if its ouy on ps3 for me it would be a definite buy. what you're doing is great. and for getting this out on ps3 try sony computer entertainment. they could easily tell you about some guys who will help you get this out on ps3. and just a side note, are you on twitter?

Thanks, scitychamps.

I'm not on Twitter just yet, but will be soon.

[TheWatcher]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

That sounds good. If it was my game I'd have a few default structures (say, 8, 12, 16, 24 and 32 teams), and then allow some level of customization on top of that, in areas such as division structure and alignment. The problem with allowing basically anything (which would be the ideal) is that automatic scheduling becomes an issue if a user creates some odd structure. A system of schedule files similar to OOTP baseball would work for a PC game, dunno about 360 though.

Yeah, I think it's safest to just use even numbers.

[TheWatcher]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

I have seen quite a few companies holding publishing competitions lately, some majors. Are you open to entering those? I don't think it would be a bad idea. You couldn't lose either way.

There are some I've heard about that aren't advertised online. I'm not against it at all.

[MikaV]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

Nice to see people dedicating their time to try and come up with a new angle on videogame football, and i hate to be negative, but...

You say you have a working tech demo, then could you possibly hook up a video of even one play. Would be great to see it actually working, way the people here are heaping praise on it already.

Also, what really makes me wonder about all this... You actually using "no polygons" as a slogan. I just dont understand why would you make a marketing point out of having a 2D game with sprites in the year 2010.

That being said, i do wish you the best of success with what you do. Would love to hear some insight into these things i mentioned. Thanks.

[TheWatcher]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

You say you have a working tech demo, then could you possibly hook up a video of even one play. Would be great to see it actually working, way the people here are heaping praise on it already.

If you take a look at how things have been released for this and other projects, you'll note that things are released in stages. When the stage is set and/or public feedback is needed (and I think everyone has done a great job with that), then it's released.

Also, what really makes me wonder about all this... You actually using "no polygons" as a slogan. I just dont understand why would you make a marketing point out of having a 2D game with sprites in the year 2010.

If you search through the information in this thread, you'll find that the game makes use of 3D, 2.5D, and 2D formats.

Aside from the fact that no other football games will be using real assets, there are also a ton of advantages made possible through the process, such as faster AI and general data calculation, and greater fluidity between movements and scenes, not to mention many development advantages that will allow me to focus evenly on all areas of the game, and not be handcuffed by concerns of sacrificing one part of the game for another. If I didn't make those things a point, I wouldn't be doing the project justice.

[celticfang]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

So the view's like TSB3 (i.e. side on 3d basically)?

The more I read about it the more I want it to succeed, there's not been a good football PC game since 2008

Customization Q: I know Maximum-Football lets you tweak the rules, have you considered having different styles in (e.g. NFL rules, CFL rules, flag football), or is it one rule for all? (Gah, I almost put in a Lord of the Rings quote >_<)

[Cryolemon]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

Having more than one set of rules is a cool idea, but it's a bit of a pain to do because of different AI requirements for each one. MaxFB had good customization (and the best play editor I've seen for a while, which was sadly made worse in version 2) but the game itself was dire.

[TheWatcher]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

So the view's like TSB3 (i.e. side on 3d basically)?

Similar to that, and the design goal is to allow the user to adjust the distance to your liking. I tested the distance code a few builds ago in the Technical prototype and it worked fine. In the prototype photos, on the prototype field you can see about 60 yards of field space. The empty space behind the QB/RB will be eliminated and that will give you another 30 yards or so at that distance. The final game field will be built differently so that you'll be able to set zoom and also have the sidelines visible.

The main objectives for field visibility in the prototype are to allow you to see enough space on the field, and allow you to still see your receivers and be able to locate them at all times. You won't be disappointed.

Customization Q: I know Maximum-Football lets you tweak the rules, have you considered having different styles in (e.g. NFL rules, CFL rules, flag football), or is it one rule for all? (Gah, I almost put in a Lord of the Rings quote >_<)

That's a great question, and it's something I've thought a lot about. While the focus is not on creating CFL or Arena styles directly, I'm also intrigued by some of the rules of other leagues. We'll see what happens when the team is assembled, but my concept thought is on flexibility and I would like to give gamers a choice on certain rules.

[Cryolemon]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

That's a great question, and it's something I've thought a lot about. While the focus is not on creating CFL or Arena styles directly, I'm also intrigued by some of the rules of other leagues. We'll see what happens when the team is assembled, but my concept thought is on flexibility and I would like to give gamers a choice on certain rules.

I think the bare minimum would be to have pro and college rule sets. Arena and Canadian rules create a lot of potential for AI issues as I said (the motion rules are the main thing I have in mind). Obviously a "custom" rule set that includes some aspects of Arena or Canadian football would be cool.

On a related point, I think it would be cool if there were some rules that aren't usually seen in football video games. I'm thinking of the fair catch kick for one. Dropkicks also come to mind, but they should probably be low percentage plays lol (That also allows you to do the Arena rule of a Dropkick being worth 4 points as a field goal or 2 as an XP).

Finally, since MaxFB was mentioned, I think a play editor is a cool idea. Ideally (as I've said before) I think the editor should be designed first and all the default plays should then be created with it. That would allow plenty of testing to make sure it was as difficult as possible to make money plays. If college rules are included we should be able to make option plays, although I appreciate the complexity of that.

[celticfang]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

I mentioned MaxFB as I mod it regularly (but don't release), and that has various rule sets in it. It played okay, but the play editor was AMAZING.

Fair catch has been in most modern NFL games, and I'm fairly sure drop kick was in a PS1 game, but I can't remember which one.

IMO AI tweaks should be fairly easy to transition for 11 on 11, as was said before

[MikaV]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

TheWatcher,

I'm truly sorry for beating a dead horse, but... You have so far not shown one glimpse that there is anything coded anywhere. All the talk is fine, and i do understand that, like you said, things need to be released in stages. But we're at a point where there is not a single bit of video - or even a picture of anything happening on the field - that would erase the doubt from my mind.

And please do know, that i'm not trying to be malicious - i think you would agree that it all sounds a bit grandiose given that you have not shown anything actually working yet.

It's just a plea for you to show something, anything - be it picture, video, whatever - that would prove that there is actually some working code behind all the talk and hype words.

Again, i'm not trying to put you down, or be mean. I'm just thinking - and i hope you agree - that given the circumstances my plea is not unreasonable.

Thanks again, and keep up the work!

[Cryolemon]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

I mentioned MaxFB as I mod it regularly (but don't release), and that has various rule sets in it. It played okay, but the play editor was AMAZING.

Yeah, with a better gameplay engine that game would be excellent.

Fair catch has been in most modern NFL games, and I'm fairly sure drop kick was in a PS1 game, but I can't remember which one.

I said fair catch kick, which is where you can make an unchallenged field goal attempt from the point of a fair catch: Fair Catch Kick

IMO AI tweaks should be fairly easy to transition for 11 on 11, as was said before

it depends a lot on how the AI is done, and obviously varies based on which part of the AI you're talking about. Obviously play calling AI is vastly different for CFL because of only having three downs.

[TheWatcher]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

@MikaV

There has been a few videos of captures shown here. Captures don't move on their own within a program (although I wish they would, it would make my life much easier), they must be coded...

There have been three videos of some prototype captures, as well as several on-field pictures showing several different formations. They don't happen on their own, they must be coded.

With about a year to go until there is a publicly playable game, the expectation to see what you're asking for is not a reasonable expectation. They don't show you 11-on-11 gameplay for an upcoming Madden in September, you get it next year a few months before release. BackBreaker went 3 years without it. 2K typically didn't show much until a month or so before release, and we're talking about products that have been in development for many, many years with a huge staff of salaried employees on some of those teams. There is a process and it has to be guided slowly. I would think after having seen all of those projects over the years and how info was released for all of them, people would be used to how this works, but I'm learning that this is not necessarily the case. Nevertheless, it's not going to be any different here.

From now on, my response to these types of posts will be a quote from the other times I've explained this all as there is not much more I can add that I haven't already said. I'm sure you mean well, and I'm also sure you can understand how people either implying or outright calling you a liar not because there are real grounds, but because of impatience and/or misunderstanding of the process, would get old rather quickly.

=====================

I just want to stick to ideas and feedback. People here have done a great job of throwing some things out there on the forums or by PM or by email, and I am listening... even if I don't have a response to add to some forum posts, I am listening.

[celticfang]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

Ahh my bad about the fair catch kick, I thought you meant the rule. A FG try from (say) your 30? That's a good rule but a crazy attempt. But hey if the option was there I'd try it every so often.

Surely it'd be easy to adapt a human to playing CFL, the AI would be told to ignore 4th down and turn the ball over. Or am I being TOO simplistic?

@Mika, he has shown images and videos, I'd say that he's coded more than most people who want to do their own game.

[Cryolemon]

Re: The Smashmouth Project

Ahh my bad about the fair catch kick, I thought you meant the rule. A FG try from (say) your 30? That's a good rule but a crazy attempt. But hey if the option was there I'd try it every so often.

It's usually used where you have the other team backed up at the end of the first half and they punt from like their 1, so you fair catch it around midfield, giving a 60 yard try.

Surely it'd be easy to adapt a human to playing CFL, the AI would be told to ignore 4th down and turn the ball over. Or am I being TOO simplistic?

I think some of it would be quite simple, but some of it would be harder.