Sunday Rivals Winter Update Adds In-Game and Season Stats, Console Development on Hold

[redwo1f]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.0)

I would argue that is is never truly "fair", never truly "realistic" and never truly "equal" when a person chooses to control a player with their controller. There is always differences in hand-eye coordination, reaction speed, a person's processing and identification ability, and even the individual controller devices (and indeed frame-rate too actually plays a role (and that varies depending on system)) -- and this can superceed or vastly mitigate by logical extension player ratings. It's why for any game mode that offers that, there ought to always be a ton of configuration abilities/adjustments to try and compensate to each individual player and their situation.

-- but it is also, in part, why I tout "coach mode" in football games for a more realistic and equal/fair approach if one is truly going for simulation and more authentic representation of player ratings -- but I realize not everyone wants to play their games as a strategy simulation, as I do...

So I think you have to allow a certain amount of forgiveness for player controlled modes/games -- but I hear you. A person either has to accept it is going to be more arcade (indeed that can be quite fun too!) - or as I suggested, have lots of ability to tweak various settings to attempt to account for their individual circumstances, I think, is really the only way.

-- Ik it's a great dilemma with many games with this mode, and I am sorry for the rambling GlennN (I know you are looking for developer response), just these are things that immediately came to mind upon reading.

[26k]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.2)

The thing I worry about is the tension between making the skill of the gamer matter, and the game having the players play true to their ratings. In sports games, I always want the ratings of the player to be the primary driver of what happens on the field. Some games, of course, do this better than others. That's why (for me) Front Page Sports Football Pro and NFL 2K5 were the best gaming experiences for me - they didn't go the Madden route of aiming to attract and feature the skill of the gamer over the ratings of the players (like having the gamer use a "catch" button, rather than going off the "catch" ratings of the player, for one example). Can you speak to your thoughts on this topic, and how Sunday Rivals handles this? Thanks!

Ya for sure! Rivals is heavily ratings driven, there's very few scenarios currently where I'm bending those values to create any sort of specific imbalance for gameplay reasons. A lot of the ratings intertwine, so for instance a receiver with great hands might be in the right place at the right time, but a low skill QB might deliver him a hard to catch ball.

I think so far that's worked pretty well, but it definitely makes the game fairly difficult for new players who start out playing as a bad team and get whooped by the AI until they play as a good one. The goal with the skill modes is to allow new and seasoned players to tailor the gameplay to their ability level. I'm trying to find a good balance of gameplay that is fun to newcomers but still engaging to veterans in their 100th game.

Sliders, which I'm working on right now, will let players really dial in a custom skill level to tune their gameplay experience. Like the preset skill modes, those values directly scale the impact of player ratings and the effects they have on the gameplay. To be clear tho, Sunday Rivals is inherently not a sim, so there's probably not going to be a combination of values that plays out into consistent 7-6 tactical victories.

[GlennN]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.0)

I would argue that is is never truly "fair", never truly "realistic" and never truly "equal" when a person chooses to control a player with their controller. There is always differences in hand-eye coordination, reaction speed, a person's processing and identification ability, and even the individual controller devices (and indeed frame-rate too actually plays a role (and that varies depending on system)) -- and this can superceed or vastly mitigate by logical extension player ratings. It's why for any game mode that offers that, there ought to always be a ton of configuration abilities/adjustments to try and compensate to each individual player and their situation.

-- but it is also, in part, why I tout "coach mode" in football games for a more realistic and equal/fair approach if one is truly going for simulation and more authentic representation of player ratings -- but I realize not everyone wants to play their games as a strategy simulation, as I do...

So I think you have to allow a certain amount of forgiveness for player controlled modes/games -- but I hear you. A person either has to accept it is going to be more arcade (indeed that can be quite fun too!) - or as I suggested, have lots of ability to tweak various settings to attempt to account for their individual circumstances, I think, is really the only way.

-- Ik it's a great dilemma with many games with this mode, and I am sorry for the rambling GlennN (I know you are looking for developer response), just these are things that immediately came to mind upon reading.

Oh, I totally agree, Redwolf. I don't expect the skill of the gamer to not matter at all, I just want there to feel a real difference when you are using a low accuracy QB as opposed to a high accuracy one. Or a low rated WR in hands or route running, etc. As long as I can feel a difference, then I can get immersed in my universe. But I totally agree with your point - there will certainly be a difference in what happens on the field varying by the skill of the gamer no matter what a developer does. Though I was asking 26k directly, I really do appreciate your input on this! A game will be at its best when the developer can consider all sides.

[GlennN]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.2)

Ya for sure! Rivals is heavily ratings driven, there's very few scenarios currently where I'm bending those values to create any sort of specific imbalance for gameplay reasons. A lot of the ratings intertwine, so for instance a receiver with great hands might be in the right place at the right time, but a low skill QB might deliver him a hard to catch ball.

I think so far that's worked pretty well, but it definitely makes the game fairly difficult for new players who start out playing as a bad team and get whooped by the AI until they play as a good one. The goal with the skill modes is to allow new and seasoned players to tailor the gameplay to their ability level. I'm trying to find a good balance of gameplay that is fun to newcomers but still engaging to veterans in their 100th game.

Sliders, which I'm working on right now, will let players really dial in a custom skill level to tune their gameplay experience. Like the preset skill modes, those values directly scale the impact of player ratings and the effects they have on the gameplay. To be clear tho, Sunday Rivals is inherently not a sim, so there's probably not going to be a combination of values that plays out into consistent 7-6 tactical victories.

Great answer, 26k! I think sliders could certainly be used to help in this area. But, I remember, with Front Page Sports, if the game was too hard, you had to get better players (or a better team). I love that concept. Looking forward to seeing where this game goes!!

[26k]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.13.0)

Hey yall, v.13.0 update is now released, adding custom skill level (aka sliders) to the game:



Full details available here:

https://store.steampowered.com/newshub/app/1297790/view/2961640916981641068

Along with the new skill level, HeadHunter records have been reset and separated out into all 4 skill levels, which should make for some interesting record books!

Another piece of good news, I'm starting work now on custom rosters! Still in the early stages, but I'm really excited about opening up this part of the game to players.

[timisone]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.13.0)

Hey yall, v.13.0 update is now released, adding custom skill level (aka sliders) to the game:



Full details available here:

https://store.steampowered.com/newshub/app/1297790/view/2961640916981641068

Along with the new skill level, HeadHunter records have been reset and separated out into all 4 skill levels, which should make for some interesting record books!



Another piece of good news, I'm starting work now on custom rosters! Still in the early stages, but I'm really excited about opening up this part of the game to players.

Looks great, but I think if it to be really successfully, it needs to have a franchise mode. I think a lot of us, play football games that gives us that. I think that's why apf2k8 wasn't as popular and 2k5 is still popular.

[26k]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.13.0)

Looks great, but I think if it to be really successfully, it needs to have a franchise mode. I think a lot of us, play football games that gives us that. I think that's why apf2k8 wasn't as popular and 2k5 is still popular.

Ya for sure, it's definitely not ruled out. I think the biggest thing for me is making a mode that feels unique to Sunday Rivals, the same way HeadHunter is (for the most part). Longevity has always been a priority for this game, so if I can find something that fits that bill, I'll pursue it!

Either way, order of operations is ultimately custom rosters > season mode > franchise mode and I'm still on step 1

[26k]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.0)

Hey yall, wanted to share a video I made showing off some in-progress work on custom teams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvq3Zqiz44o

Still a lot to do, but it's starting to come together. Most of the team and player portions are complete, I'm working now on overall league customization. The video shows some empty sections too, which will come in later updates!

[ElectricAggie]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.2)

The customization looks awesome! I love the look and functionality of the UI.

Apologies if this has been asked before, but is there any chance we might see team logos in the game?

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

[26k]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.2)

The customization looks awesome! I love the look and functionality of the UI.

Apologies if this has been asked before, but is there any chance we might see team logos in the game?

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

Thanks!

I'm still a bit on the fence with logos for a variety of reasons, but not completely ruling them out. If it happens, it would probably be a post-launch feature I add into the game!

[FunkDockta27]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.0)

Thanks, yup working on this by my lonesome!



I'm focused on the Steam release right now, when Early Access is complete I'll start evaluating other platforms since there's definitely a demand for it so far. I have no idea when that will be, so if you're interested now Steam is the best (and cheapest) place to grab a hold of it!

If i could like that reply more than once i would [emoji23]
It ever hits a console im on it man [emoji106]
Meantime Im lurkin and watchin.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[57oceanlover]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.0)

Looking forward to getting this game..

[26k]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.14.0)

really wish I could edit the title of the main thread...

v.14 Custom Teams Update is live!
This is one of two long awaited features, so I'm really excited that it's finally available in the game. Read all about it here:

https://store.steampowered.com/news/...38079943341692

Trailer here:

https://youtu.be/aEJ9YEV5AV0

Some screenshots:

[Bull_Dozer]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.0)

Does this have a coach mode? If not, will it in the future?

[26k]

Re: Sunday Rivals Updates (v.12.0)

Does this have a coach mode? If not, will it in the future?

No it doesn't, I'm still on the fence about whether or not it's going to happen and it would probably be after the game is out of Early Access if so.

The game wasn't built with that kind of mode in mind (it's an arcade football game, didn't imagine people wanted it) so there would be a fair amount of work to get that functionality.