Breaking Down Backbreaker

[gamer23]

it seems more like a friday night game.looks great but it needs that license man.

[bukktown]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

yes, you can mathematically predict what will happen between two inanimate objects when they colide if you know the exact conditions of that collision...

however we are not talking about inanimate objects, we are talking about football players... they have to be able to accelerate, make cuts, have balance, strength, vision, agility, possibly some sort of fundimentals rating (ie a bad tackler may just throw a shoulder into the ballcarrier, where as a good tackler will try to wrap the ball carrier up)... thats completely ignoring things like passing, catching, etc

yeah, realistic physics are great, but without ratings there is no game... you cant just take a physics engine, throw a bunch of dummies w/ different weight distribution in there, and expect a football game to come out of it...

there are many many more factors than just mass/speed and angle of approach when determining what happens on the field

Are you arguing some semantic point about what 'ratings' means? APF did not have ratings. They had animations that were tied to abilities. If you didn't have the 'ability', then you could not trigger that animation.

[superstarshad]

Anyone who buys this game over Madden is foolish.

[Triathlete_201]

Anyone who buys this game over Madden is foolish.

And anyone who judges a game before actually playing it is foolish..

[KBLover]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

Are you arguing some semantic point about what 'ratings' means? APF did not have ratings. They had animations that were tied to abilities. If you didn't have the 'ability', then you could not trigger that animation.

Did the game have zero ratings at all or where they all just hidden from the user?

If players without any speed abilities ran at different speeds, there was some sort of rating in place making that difference. Otherwise, they'd all be at the same speed.

Even if it's just tied to the position, there's still a base rating and then position is a modifier and any speed abilities is another modifier. The game has to know what the base speed is to make any adjustments to that speed - or the player is given a totally new speed rating, which means he moves faster or slower on the screen.

All of this could be done invisibly to the user - you just see guys going faster or slower, but that doesn't mean there's necessarily no rating at all.

[geezmeister]

Im gonna try it out....... but im just not sure about it yet

[Cryolemon]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

Did the game have zero ratings at all or where they all just hidden from the user?

If players without any speed abilities ran at different speeds, there was some sort of rating in place making that difference. Otherwise, they'd all be at the same speed.

Even if it's just tied to the position, there's still a base rating and then position is a modifier and any speed abilities is another modifier. The game has to know what the base speed is to make any adjustments to that speed - or the player is given a totally new speed rating, which means he moves faster or slower on the screen.

All of this could be done invisibly to the user - you just see guys going faster or slower, but that doesn't mean there's necessarily no rating at all.

Exactly. You don't need visible ratings, but you need some form of rating system.

As I've said before I'm in favour of a mixture between numerical ratings and APF style "attributes".

On the subject of numerical ratings, if I was doing it the ratings would be basically 1-100, but could be more than 100 in exceptional circumstances (for example, Peyton Manning for coverage reading).

[TheWatcher]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

I didn't care for APF's attempt with the attribute-only system. I think a mixture of some type is better.

[sooner111]

Has anyone noticed that there isn't anything on the sidelines ( backups, coaches, people, etc. ). Wasn't Blitz that way? Just thinks it adds more realism to have players and coaches there.

[KBLover]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

Exactly. You don't need visible ratings, but you need some form of rating system.

As I've said before I'm in favour of a mixture between numerical ratings and APF style "attributes".

On the subject of numerical ratings, if I was doing it the ratings would be basically 1-100, but could be more than 100 in exceptional circumstances (for example, Peyton Manning for coverage reading).

Yeah, I think easily scouted stuff should be visible number ratings. Things like speed, agility, strength, throwing power, kicking power, anything you could just put the player on the field in isolation or tests (like the combine) and say "do this" and watch how well he does it.

Others should be initially hidden (unless your scouts are good, perhaps) and then appear over time as abilities (good cover corner, ball hawk, hard hitter, elusive runner, power run blocker, etc)

[bill2451]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

Yeah, I think easily scouted stuff should be visible number ratings. Things like speed, agility, strength, throwing power, kicking power, anything you could just put the player on the field in isolation or tests (like the combine) and say "do this" and watch how well he does it.

Others should be initially hidden (unless your scouts are good, perhaps) and then appear over time as abilities (good cover corner, ball hawk, hard hitter, elusive runner, power run blocker, etc)

personally, I'd perfer a system where you scouts dont reveal numbers, rather the numbers (or letters, or whatever it may be) are always visible, but may not be completely accurate... like the way baseball mogul works

the more you pay your scouts (aka the better/more scouts you get), the less deviation there will be in "scouted' numbers and "actual" numbers

so I may see that Joe Blow has a short throw accuracy of 75, but if my scouts have a +/- of 15 then I'm really left in the dark... instead I'll have to rely more on stats to point me in the right direction (I imagine players on your team would be "scouted" more accurately, so you'd see the numbers more closely to what they really were, but you still wouldnt know exactly what they were)

imo it would only work this way for players currently in the league... then obviously amature scouting would work differently (for amature scouting I'd love a more CH2k8 approach, where you have a certain amount of hours, and you can get game tape of specific players, watch practices/games of them, invite them to your pro day, etc, and depending on what you choose to do you'd learn different things about certain players)... and again nothing you learn would be 100% accurate. The more time you spend scouting a player though, the closer to 100% accurate it gets (so in amature scouting you'd be revealing numbers and getting more accurate with those numbers, whereas for ppl already in the league all the numbers are already revealed, and you're just trying to get more accurate numbers on them by getting better scouts)

[noshun]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

I will def check this game out. Good to try something different from Madden and to check out the tech behind this game.

[rodriggo]

What are the legal implications if they allow you to edit every team? Someone explain this to me while I fire up Pro Evolution Soccer and play the EPL with wholly edited and created teams.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

^^^ Yeah. There are no implications. It's just concern and a misunderstanding that people have of how licensing works.

[KBLover]

Re: Breaking Down Backbreaker

personally, I'd perfer a system where you scouts dont reveal numbers, rather the numbers (or letters, or whatever it may be) are always visible, but may not be completely accurate... like the way baseball mogul works

the more you pay your scouts (aka the better/more scouts you get), the less deviation there will be in "scouted' numbers and "actual" numbers

so I may see that Joe Blow has a short throw accuracy of 75, but if my scouts have a +/- of 15 then I'm really left in the dark... instead I'll have to rely more on stats to point me in the right direction (I imagine players on your team would be "scouted" more accurately, so you'd see the numbers more closely to what they really were, but you still wouldnt know exactly what they were)

imo it would only work this way for players currently in the league... then obviously amature scouting would work differently (for amature scouting I'd love a more CH2k8 approach, where you have a certain amount of hours, and you can get game tape of specific players, watch practices/games of them, invite them to your pro day, etc, and depending on what you choose to do you'd learn different things about certain players)... and again nothing you learn would be 100% accurate. The more time you spend scouting a player though, the closer to 100% accurate it gets (so in amature scouting you'd be revealing numbers and getting more accurate with those numbers, whereas for ppl already in the league all the numbers are already revealed, and you're just trying to get more accurate numbers on them by getting better scouts)

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

Good points.

Should have thought of that - I've played BB Mogul as well as OOTP and both work that way with scouting!