Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

[wwharton]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

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Industry analysts observed that Sega's original projections for sales of NFL 2K3 were quite irrationally optimistic, drastically overestimating its potential success in its first year of direct competition with the strong Madden brand.

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If true, this is the only problem I see right here. We range from a bunch of teenagers to experienced gamers here and the consensus has always been that 2k3 wouldn't come close to the sales of Madden this year for many reasons. What the hell were they looking at?

[imported_Administrator]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

Crush we love you but you are the biggest Madden fanboy trolling the forums I have ever found.

Heck I still follow some of your posts on IGN anytime I need a good laugh.

Play what you like thought but at the very least remember this one little tidbit.

Sales figures do not = a better game.

NBA Live outsold the 2K series the last few years and if you tell me Live 2001 and 2002 was a better game... Well you get the point.

Triple Play probably doubled the sales of High Heat baseball for the PS2.

Sega has an uphill battle because it is EA and they have longer established franchises. Unfortuantely the people that make EA what it is are the noninformed consumers and parents who have been brainwashed into buying their games over the years and not even glancing at the competition.

Mind you I love Madden and NCAA but you give me another reason why Live and TP are top sellers?

Polish LOL

[MaddenMan]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

"Sales figures do not = a better game."


That is true in the cases you cited, however NBA2K didn't get blasted out of the water by Live and neither did High Heat by Triple Play.

2K3 DID get blasted out of the water by Madden and that in itself proves that either SEGAs game is crap - which I own and DO NOT believe

or

NFL2K3 doesn't appeal to the majority of football gamers. If that is how you feel then so be it. SEGA is in it for the money and nothing else, the Dreamcast episode should have proved that to SEGA diehards. SEGA needs to reevaluate what makes a football game "good" in the eyes of many.

As for EA being an established producer of games, many people don't mention that they are only established because they over time beat out all of the Joe Montana's, GameDays, etc. etc. etc. It didn't happen overnight. Being the #1 football game since the early 90s is nothing to scoff at. It may seem like the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but if you even give Madden 2003 a real unbiased chance, you too will realize that it is the best game out there.

SEGA needs to advertise their products more too during prime time play such as during Monday Night football, playoff games, and most importantly - The Super Bowl. If they are unwilling to advertise and spend their hard earned coin to bring in fans, then the Dreamcast episode will be a two-parter. I really hope they understand eventually that to "dominate" the market like EA does, it is not an overnight thing and you MUST advertise advertise advertise. I can't count how many Madden ads/commercials I have seen, yet I know I have seen 2K3 ads less than 10 times. That in itself is why Madden outsold 2K. Not to mention the fact that Madden is a hell of a game - which doesn't hurt.

[imported_Administrator]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

I agree it did not happen overnight but it has been out there the longest running title and I think the "casual" sports gamer picks it up for that reason.

Now as far as competition Madden was partly to blame for some of it's own mistakes . If Madden had come out the same year that Gameday had I would bet a pretty penny that Gameday probably would not be around today. They gave 989 sports the jump it needed to get off the ground. You have to go back and remember that for a whole year+ on the Playstation there was no Madden. Case #2 was EA deciding not to develop for the Dreamcast. Sure this can be looked as a good or bad move depending on the person but would the 2K series be where it is today had there been a Madden taking away sales for Dreamcast owners?

I personally find 2K3 better for a different reason then most. My preference has always lied in the college game. I spend so much time with NCAA 2003 that Madden feels like more of the same. I enjoy the difference that NFL 2K3 brings to the table.

EDIT: And according to the figures I have seen Triple Play more then DOUBLED the sales of HH on the PS2 alone. Will search for that info.

[Freelance]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

Crush, for whatever it's worth, I agree 100 percent with your statements. I, too, couldn't see any value whatsoever to NFL2K3 beyond three or four hours of play. I spent about 20 games with it and hated more and more by the minute.

True, sales do not equal better gameplay, but in this case, I personally thought it clearly did.

However, I DO NOT want Sega to quit trying to beat EA. I'd gladly support them with my money if they'd make a game that appeals to me.

[wwharton]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

ps2madden you said one thing that was uncharacteristically off the wall for you, IMO. I have given Madden an unbiased look and still feel that NFL2k3 is the better game. I respect that you disagree, but you know as well as all of us that a comment like that starts wars around here.

As for the rest of your post, God you can't be more right about the advertising. They have one or two NFL2k3 commercials and one NBA2k3 commercial. What? Are they nuts? This is one area that I just don't get.

As for Live and Triple Play, these are two REALLY BAD games so the fact that they would outsell at all is the problem. Madden is a great game with the biggest Name of them all (both the basketball and baseball games have gone through various name changes over the years to go along with how bad they've been until this year's Live). So you'd have to recalculate the thought that any old EA game is gonna outsell it's comp with the fact that it's the biggest ea game and is damn good. Like I said in another thread, if 2k3 wasn't a good game it wouldn't sell at all against that comp. The problem isn't the sales, it's their expectations.

[MaddenMan]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

That is true with the expectations as the original IGN link shows.

As for Triple play and Live, those games suck except for Live being resurrected this year, although it is still not better than 2K. But alot of people will buy Live because of the right analog feature.

Triple play still sucks bad.

I never said that NFL2K3 sucks, I own it, I don't buy games that I don't like or think are good. The whole point by my posts is that people need to realize that SEGA is a business - they are not your friend anymore than EA is. They both want our money. If SEGA is going to really compete with Madden, they need to add everything that Madden has plus more. As far as I am concerned 2K is a completely different game than Madden in overall feel.

If Madden loses its throne anywhere in the near future it will be because of hype. Right now Madden has more hype in advertising alone than any small website that proclaims that 2K is better that gets 1000 hits a day. I understand why people who like 2K like it better, usually it is because they want something different, however the majority of that crowd will admit that NCAA 2003 is an excellent game and bash Madden when in fact the games are so similar it isn't even funny.

I say screw EA Microsoft and SEGA and let's all support QB Club.

[Redfield]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

I consider myself an unbiased gamer and I love video game football as much as the next guy. I actually bought both Madden 2003 and NFL2K3 on their release dates. This was the first time I have ever bought two NFL football games. After many weeks of diligent playing and exploring all their nooks and crannies I came to the conclusion I only had enough time to commit to one game. I decided to go with NFL2K3. Jim Cook's(cookusu) double take review of NFL2K3 really spelled out why I prefer NFL2K3. CONTROL. That is, I am in CONTROL. I don't feel like a spectator on defense like I do in Madden 2003. When I tackle the ball carrier, when I intercept a pass, when I cover a reciever, it's because of me and my gaming ability. It's kinda hard to explain, and you only really can understand what it feels like unless you've played both Madden 2003 and NFL2K3 diligently. I think it's grossly unfair to bash and criticize either game(whether it be Madden 2003 or NFL2K3) without giving each game a lot of playing time(meaning several weeks, NOT just a few games or a few hours). Like BD said, play what you like, but better sales figures do not equal a better game.

[CheckMate]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

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Unfortuantely the people that make EA what it is are the noninformed consumers and parents who have been brainwashed into buying their games over the years and not even glancing at the competition.

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I had NBA2k and 2k1, but this year I like Live. I don't think I've been brainwashed by anyone. I just prefer Live this year.

[imported_Administrator]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The whole point by my posts is that people need to realize that SEGA is a business - they are not your friend anymore than EA is.

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Well now you have me questioning the costumes I made for the kids for Halloween.

[hdaniel1]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

Oh how cute!

[wwharton]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

Checkmate, you're missing the point there. When you're talking about good games (meaning games where it's like splitting hairs trying to argue over which is better) it all comes down to personal preference. Some people prefer NFL2k3 some prefer Madden. Some people prefer NBA2k3, some ID2003, some Live. These are all good games.

But the majority of consumers don't know any better. They don't try out every game before making a decision, or have a history with each of the different styles before the new release is out. Hell, they don't even search the web for reviews and feedback on the pluses and minuses of each game. When you include parents, they've never even SEEN most games. That's when name recognition comes in. EA has it, sega's got a little b/c of the DC and the success of NBA2k1 and 2 vs Live but very little and that's about it. If everyone that visits this site decided to only support one game it wouldn't even register in the sales figures. So marketing and advertising and name recognition is huge.

ps2madden, I think if people could look at games differently instead of trying to compare we'd all be happy. I agree with everything...except QB Club.

[CheckMate]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

You're missing my lowball attempt at humor. Don't you see the look in my eyes? I am not a healthy individual.

[MaddenMan]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

Nice costumes BD lol!!!!






P.S. You forgot to make one for Microsoft and 989 (HINT HINT)

[wwharton]

Re: Sega reduces profit outlook by 72% - Admits total defeat to Madden 2003

lol, my bad...I missed the eyes .