Franchise Player?

[Mr. Moustafa]

Re: Franchise Player?

Joe Thomas

[lonewolf371]

Re: Franchise Player?

It's not like those great offenses have done much before and after Warner. Warner sucked in NY because, like mah quotabak Chad Pennington, he's struggled to stay healthy. It's why Mike Martz ran him out of St. Louis. Plus with the first overall pick sitting behind him in NY, they'd be looking for any excuse to bench him. I just don't know how you can keep a guy who took the worst franchise in NFL history to a SB out of the top five.

He's had injury problems everywhere he's been, including Arizona, but even the games he's healthy in his numbers shot way up in Arizona. That's a result of Fitz. When he was good in St. Louis, he had Torry Holt, Marshall Faulk and Isaac Bruce. Worst franchise in NFL history? Pfft, they still went 9-7 and Warner rode the brilliant playoff performances of Boldin and Fitzgerald to the Super Bowl. Substitute any other WR in the league for Fitzgerald and they don't make it that far.

[CW McGraw]

Re: Franchise Player?

But the Cards have had Fitz and Boldin for years. If Warner is so replaceable, why did it take until this year for the Cards to finally get to a SB? Where have Rams been since Warner? Warner elevates every team he actually gets a shot to play on.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Franchise Player?

But the Cards have had Fitz and Boldin for years. If Warner is so replaceable, why did it take until this year for the Cards to finally get to a SB? Where have Rams been since Warner? Warner elevates every team he actually gets a shot to play on.

They never had a consistent QB that could stay on the field until Warner. The last QB to start 16 games before Warner last year was Jake Plummer in 2002. Passing is very dependent on precision and the QBs and wide receivers getting to know each other. That's problem #1.

Problem #2 was that Fitzy has been developing. Last year was his fifth season, which means that he's had enough time to develop the mental side of his game to compliment the physical side (which is incredible).

The last problem is that the rest of the team really wasn't that good. They've finally made some good moves in the draft over the last few years and picking up guys like Levi Brown and Darnell Dockett and others to compliment those two. Those guys have developed along with Fitzgerald and the overall talent level of the team is a lot better now than Fitzgerald's earlier years. Warner has helped, but the rest of the team has gotten better and Warner has been the beneficiary of having one of the best young receivers in the NFL.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Franchise Player?

I don't care how good your weapons are. You have to be pretty darn talented yourself to play as well as Warner has. Warner's been on teams where they know almost every play is going to be a pass, and they still can't stop him. He's outstanding at finding the holes in a defense and getting the ball there consistantly. Definitely top 5 in the NFL right now.

And for the record PackMan, I know I said I'd take Ryan as my franchise QB and everything, but I'm on you side in saying that I think Rodgers is the better QB right now. I just don't think he will be in 3-5 years.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Franchise Player?

I don't care how good your weapons are. You have to be pretty darn talented yourself to play as well as Warner has. Warner's been on teams where they know almost every play is going to be a pass, and they still can't stop him. He's outstanding at finding the holes in a defense and getting the ball there consistantly. Definitely top 5 in the NFL right now.

And for the record PackMan, I know I said I'd take Ryan as my franchise QB and everything, but I'm on you side in saying that I think Rodgers is the better QB right now. I just don't think he will be in 3-5 years.

He's talented, but not top 5. Take away Fitzgerald (or look at his success in New York or St. Louis towards the end) and he's just good.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Franchise Player?

Brady
Roethlisberger
Long/Thomas/OL
Mario Williams
Patrick Willis


I would never take a RB first. Their career span is like, 5 years.

[Vince]

Re: Franchise Player?

They never had a consistent QB that could stay on the field until Warner. The last QB to start 16 games before Warner last year was Jake Plummer in 2002. Passing is very dependent on precision and the QBs and wide receivers getting to know each other. That's problem #1.

Problem #2 was that Fitzy has been developing. Last year was his fifth season, which means that he's had enough time to develop the mental side of his game to compliment the physical side (which is incredible).

The last problem is that the rest of the team really wasn't that good. They've finally made some good moves in the draft over the last few years and picking up guys like Levi Brown and Darnell Dockett and others to compliment those two. Those guys have developed along with Fitzgerald and the overall talent level of the team is a lot better now than Fitzgerald's earlier years. Warner has helped, but the rest of the team has gotten better and Warner has been the beneficiary of having one of the best young receivers in the NFL.

Keep finding excuses to discredit legit top 5 Quarterbacks...

[JaBronie247]

Re: Franchise Player?

Brady
Roethlisberger
Long/Thomas/OL
Mario Williams
Patrick Willis


I would never take a RB first. Their career span is like, 5 years.

IMO I don't think Roethlisberger is a good QB for last year he threw 15 Int's an 17 Touchdowns! that isn't good! also I think there Defense carries there team too much!

[lonewolf371]

Re: Franchise Player?

Keep finding excuses to discredit legit top 5 Quarterbacks...

I also hear that he smells, and doesn't shower very often.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Franchise Player?

IMO I don't think Roethlisberger is a good QB for last year he threw 15 Int's an 17 Touchdowns! that isn't good! also I think there Defense carries there team too much!

And he's a proven winner who comes up huge whenever he needs to. He knows how to manage the game, he knows how to get a big play, he has great physical talents. I'll take him, even if "there defense carries there team too much!".

[mKoz26]

Re: Franchise Player?

I also hear that he smells, and doesn't shower very often.

What would you say to this list, lonewolf?

Top 5 QBs
Kerry Collins
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Jake Delhomme
Peyton Manning

In order. Fair?

[lonewolf371]

Re: Franchise Player?

What would you say to this list, lonewolf?

Top 5 QBs
Kerry Collins
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Jake Delhomme
Peyton Manning

In order. Fair?

I'd say that I disagree, and ask you why you felt that way, hoping to learn something new from someone else's opinion.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Franchise Player?

It's not like those great offenses have done much before and after Warner. Warner sucked in NY because, like mah quotabak Chad Pennington, he's struggled to stay healthy. It's why Mike Martz ran him out of St. Louis. Plus with the first overall pick sitting behind him in NY, they'd be looking for any excuse to bench him. I just don't know how you can keep a guy who took the worst franchise in NFL history to a SB out of the top five.

Man, in St Louis he had Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Pace, all in their primes. That's just absurd. It's not like that offense died after Warner left. Bulger stepped in and they were fine. They weren't "greatest show on turf" kind of good, but there were a lot of factors in on that, aside from Warner leaving. As a team in general, the main reason they dropped off is because their defense dropped off the face of the planet. When Warner was there, they had a very good defense.

Warner was awful in NY when he was healthy, downright awful.

If Matt Leinart actually acted like he cared, and played up to his talent, Warner probably wouldn't even be there. I refuse to believe he can't put up similar numbers to Warner with that offensive talent around him. Larry Fitz's numbers have been great regardless of who's thrown to him since he's been in the league, btw. It's not like Warner made him break out or something. The Cardinals just haven't had a team until now.

Or putting a rookie above him for that matter.

I'm absolutely not doing that. Warner's still a top 10 QB, still a good QB. I'm just not on this boat that thinks he's an elite QB. The fact of the matter is that the guy has only played "elite" when he's had ridiculous offensive talent around him.

[JaBronie247]

Re: Franchise Player?

What would you say to this list, lonewolf?

Top 5 QBs
Kerry Collins
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Jake Delhomme
Peyton Manning

In order. Fair?

Your forgetting Travaris Jackson and what about Daunte Caulpepper? he is a BEAST!