Pro Bowl Selections

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

What's the argument for any of those three over Welker? More TDs? Is that it?

More TD's, more yds, more dangerous. Welker is a dump off artist. He's not a game changer.

[Beantown]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

More TD's, more yds, more dangerous. Welker is a dump off artist. He's not a game changer.

So people get into the Pro Bowl because of how "dangerous" they are, or what their specialty is? That makes no sense to me.

And, for the record, Welker has more yards than every receiver in the league but Andre Johnson. And he missed 2 games, which means he leads the league in yards per game. Can't punish Welker for the lack of TDs when he has Moss on the other side. That "Moss helps him" argument goes both ways. If Moss wasn't there, Welker would certainly have more TDs.

And I'd say the 122 catches, 1,336 yards make him a pretty damn "dangerous" "dump off artist."

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

Welker is overrated? That news to me.

[wwharton]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

Rice definitely deserves it IMO. 2nd in the league behind Chris Johnson in yards from scrimmage. McClain also. Lewis, started strong and played well until that injury in the Colts game. Ed Reed is lucky to still be in the league Not sure how much longer he's going to last.

Why do you think McClain deserved it (I kind of agreed with Mil on that one)?

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

So people get into the Pro Bowl because of how "dangerous" they are, or what their specialty is? That makes no sense to me.

And, for the record, Welker has more yards than every receiver in the league but Andre Johnson. And he missed 2 games, which means he leads the league in yards per game. Can't punish Welker for the lack of TDs when he has Moss on the other side. That "Moss helps him" argument goes both ways. If Moss wasn't there, Welker would certainly have more TDs.

And I'd say the 122 catches, 1,336 yards make him a pretty damn "dangerous" "dump off artist."

122 catches, FOUR touchdowns. Just 11 yds per catch. I'd expect that from a TE. Not a #2 WR. Out of the 41 players w/@ least 50 catches, Welker's yds per catch is 37th. There are 11 players w/less than 50 receptions who have more TD catches. 2 of those have less than 30.

The guy is not dangerous. He's an acceptable evil for DC's. They don't care if he gets catches.

[jth1331]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

I honestly would say either is deserving but Witten beats Gonzo in every stat except TDs where we know Dallas uses him as a blocker more than a receiving threat. On top of that, he is the main cog in the offense, take out Witten & there is a huge dropoff in everything the Cowboys can do in terms of protection, passing & running... heck, even the entire offensive scheme would change. Not trying to start a debate but if you have to choose one, you can make a very strong case that the Cowboys are a mere shell of their team without Witten while the Falcons proved last year they can move the ball without Gonzo.

Agreed. Probably the best all around TE in the league for the past few seasons. He may not get the TD numbers but he's indespensible for the offense: blocking, catching, motioning to create mismatches, finding soft spots on 3rd downs, etc he does it all. When you have a guy who can make LBs look silly covering him, Safeties look like kids trying to tackle him and DEs getting pancaked/shoved out of the way on runs you really have a special player.

Tony Gonzalez is better than Jason Witten. The Pro Bowl isn't about how valuable a player is to a team, it represents the best of the best, and Gonzalez is better than Witten. It seems the only people arguing Witten over Gonzalez are the Cowboy fans here.

[stiffarmleft]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

Welker is far from overrated, he does benefit from the scheme he's in, but so do plenty of other great players, including his teammate Moss, who didn't do so hot in Oakland. It doesn't matter how talented a player is, if the scheme and playcalling suck, not many players can overcome that, I know first hand as a Redskin fan. You can't punish Welker for flourishing in an offense that perfectly suits his abilities.

[Beantown]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

You can't punish Welker for flourishing in an offense that perfectly suits his abilities.

Apparently you can.

Again, Welker is not the touchdown threat on the Patriots offense. He's not the home run threat. Those jobs are reserved for Moss.

The Patriots ask Welker to get catches and get yards from the slot. That's what he does and he does it better than anyone else in the league. Welker has perfected the "read/option" route that the Patriots frequently call for him.

I still see no argument for why Welker doesn't deserve to be in the Pro Bowl. Because Randy Moss and the tight-ends are targeted for the touchdowns? Because he is the epitome of a dump-off slot receiver? Neither of those are good enough arguments to not put the league leader in catches and yards per game, and the #2 guy in receiving yards into the Pro Bowl.

[Cebby]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

I still see no argument for why Welker doesn't deserve to be in the Pro Bowl.

Randy Moss is much better than Welker and thus should have been chosen ahead of him.

[Beantown]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

Randy Moss is much better than Welker and thus should have been chosen ahead of him.

Based on the fact he has more TDs? Or are you supporting voting in players simply based on their names?

Again, he leads the league in catches and yards per game, and is second in receiving yards. And he doesn't get touchdowns because of Moss being on the other side and being the main red zone threat.

Moss is a better receiver, but Welker is having a better year.

[ThePPL]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

Which Bengal should have made it?

I think Chad Ocho and Cedric Benson were definitely having pro bowl seasons. The only problem was that in their AFC conference, they had so much competition against players playing in the same positions as them.

And Antwan Odom had already 8 sacks in the first four games of the season (even though most of them were against Aaron Rodgers). But of course, after week 6, he was put in the injury reserved.

That leaves the two cornerbacks the bengals have: Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall. Two former first round picks and each of these players have 6 interceptions (tied 5th in leading interceptions this season) I don't think these guys are shutdown corners, but they certainly have given players of the likes of Sidney Rice, Brandon Marshall, Ben Roethlisberger, Jay Cutler and Joe Flacco problems. I would take one of these guys (probably Joseph) over Champ Bailey.


And I don't understand why people are making Wes Welker out as this undeserving player to make the probowl. I know Randy Moss was having a great year, but Randy Moss has had better years than this and plus, he's had some notable struggles this season. I just don't believe how a defensive coordinator would not take a guy like Wes Welker into account when has produced so many yards. He may only have four touchdowns, but he must be leading their offense to getting closer to the end zone. I remember when he was first acquired in 2007, he was the least talked about acquisition. It was all Adalius Thomas and Randy Moss teaming next to Donte Stallworth. Since then, he's taken Donte's spot and hasn't looked back. For 3 years in a row, he's had 3 100+ receptions and 3 1000+ yards.

[Cebby]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

Based on the fact he has more TDs? Or are you supporting voting in players simply based on their names?

They had similar years and Moss is a far better player.

[umd]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

So people get into the Pro Bowl because of how "dangerous" they are, or what their specialty is? That makes no sense to me.

And, for the record, Welker has more yards than every receiver in the league but Andre Johnson. And he missed 2 games, which means he leads the league in yards per game. Can't punish Welker for the lack of TDs when he has Moss on the other side. That "Moss helps him" argument goes both ways. If Moss wasn't there, Welker would certainly have more TDs.

And I'd say the 122 catches, 1,336 yards make him a pretty damn "dangerous" "dump off artist."

I agree.

He's a chain mover. People like TDs. However you can't score TDs if you don't move the chains.

He's been the better player than Moss the last 2 seasons and fully deserving of that Pro Bowl spot. For others to say that Moss doesn't benefit from Welker's presence as much as Welker benefits from Moss is ridiculous.

[bkrich83]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

Agreed. Probably the best all around TE in the league for the past few seasons.

Uhhh. No.

[jeremym480]

Re: Pro Bowl Selections

I think Chad Ocho and Cedric Benson were definitely having pro bowl seasons. The only problem was that in their AFC conference, they had so much competition against players playing in the same positions as them.

And Antwan Odom had already 8 sacks in the first four games of the season (even though most of them were against Aaron Rodgers). But of course, after week 6, he was put in the injury reserved.

That leaves the two cornerbacks the bengals have: Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall. Two former first round picks and each of these players have 6 interceptions (tied 5th in leading interceptions this season) I don't think these guys are shutdown corners, but they certainly have given players of the likes of Sidney Rice, Brandon Marshall, Ben Roethlisberger, Jay Cutler and Joe Flacco problems. I would take one of these guys (probably Joseph) over Champ Bailey.

Ocho is having a very good year however, he's not more deserving than Welker, Wayne, Johnson, Marshall or Moss for that matter. However, he may have a chance at making it in if New England get's to the Super Bowl.

Benson is also having a great year and he would probably of had a great chance at making it until he got injured. But, the fact of the matter is her did get injured and I don't think he's more deserving than the other running backs selected.

Odom was on fire to start the season and I'm sure he would have finished strong too (bc that's just what the Bama boys do). Barring injury he would have probably been a no-brainier. Hopefully, he'll come back as strong next year.

Joesph vs. Champ Baily is probably your closest bet but, that's still debatable. Let's not forget that Champ is a major part of Denver's pass D and that D held teams like Cincy, Dallas and The Giants to less than 10 points. Hell, the Pat's only scored 17 on them. I mean, Joesph did intercept 3 more balls and all but, it would still be hard to vote against Champ.