Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

[Cebby]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Now some might say that you still get tackled, so yeah there's still that part, but football is becoming more and more like basketball on grass.

That's not even kind of true.

Football may be easing up on some of the contact, but basketball has turned into female soccer with some of the theatrics by Wade, Lecrab, and especially Pierce.



That doesn't happen in the NFL.

Ever

[CPT]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Well first of all, playing pass-catcher in the NFL is becoming more and more of a contact sport instead of a collision sport in the first place. A guy "fouls" you and the ref tosses a flag and your team gets the ball wherever he touched/breathed/looked at you. Now some might say that you still get tackled, so yeah there's still that part, but football is becoming more and more like basketball on grass.

everyone has an opinion, so fine. I happen to see guys in football get drilled, as in drilled unconscious (in the safest equipment - to date) splitting the seam downfield, broken ribs, collarbones, jaws, dislocated shoulders, etc......and a lot of those are not penalties - they are deemed clean. I guess you see something different - that's fine.

another player hitting you full speed as you also are at full speed is not "contact." sorry. Getting "tackled" is one thing...getting "drilled" is another.

If you had to choose one....would you rather get fouled in the paint by Shaq or get drilled catching a pass by any FS/SS in the NFL?

NFL rules have been tweaked in order to save crippling injuries and possible even lives. Guys are simply much bigger, faster, and stronger than they were ten years ago. It is a very dangerous sport. A lot of the injuries in hoops are not even contact injuries.

If you say that football is becoming close to basketball on grass...hoops is closing in on soccer (with the exception of slide tackles in soccer) even quicker. Watch the NBA films from the 80's and pay attention to what was allowed then vs now - night and day. If you think the NFL has become softer (re: penalties) than then NBA - look again.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

everyone has an opinion, so fine. I happen to see guys in football get drilled, as in drilled unconscious (in the safest equipment - to date) splitting the seam downfield, broken ribs, collarbones, jaws, dislocated shoulders, etc......and a lot of those are not penalties - they are deemed clean. I guess you see something different - that's fine.

another player hitting you full speed as you also are at full speed is not "contact." sorry. Getting "tackled" is one thing...getting "drilled" is another.

If you had to choose one....would you rather get fouled in the paint by Shaq or get drilled catching a pass by any FS/SS in the NFL?

NFL rules have been tweaked in order to save crippling injuries and possible even lives. Guys are simply much bigger, faster, and stronger than they were ten years ago. It is a very dangerous sport. A lot of the injuries in hoops are not even contact injuries.

If you say that football is becoming close to basketball on grass...hoops is closing in on soccer (with the exception of slide tackles in soccer) even quicker. Watch the NBA films from the 80's and pay attention to what was allowed then vs now - night and day. If you think the NFL has become softer (re: penalties) than then NBA - look again.

The "getting drilled" tackles are becoming more and more rare. It usually hurts the safety just as much as the receiver, plus the NFL is starting to call unnecessary roughness penalties, such as in the case of a safety torpedoing a defenseless receiver. These types of changes will continue at the NFL moves towards an 18-game schedule. Any way you slice it, the running routes part of the game has had a lot of its contact removed and that's probably part of the reason basketball players seem to cross over well. I think Gates, Gonzalez, and Pollard all played basketball, so there's a track record of basketball players being good receiving tight ends.

Guys still get shot, and I'd argue that concussions are more worrisome than all the injuries you listed, but the game is becoming less physical and there are a lot of aspects from basketball that would seamlessly transfer.

[wwharton]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

The "getting drilled" tackles are becoming more and more rare. It usually hurts the safety just as much as the receiver, plus the NFL is starting to call unnecessary roughness penalties, such as in the case of a safety torpedoing a defenseless receiver. These types of changes will continue at the NFL moves towards an 18-game schedule. Any way you slice it, the running routes part of the game has had a lot of its contact removed and that's probably part of the reason basketball players seem to cross over well. I think Gates, Gonzalez, and Pollard all played basketball, so there's a track record of basketball players being good receiving tight ends.

Guys still get shot, and I'd argue that concussions are more worrisome than all the injuries you listed, but the game is becoming less physical and there are a lot of aspects from basketball that would seamlessly transfer.

You're kind of making stuff up as you go here. Gates, Gonzo and Pollard got chances bc of rule changes that didn't exist when they started playing? More basketball players are crossing over?

[lonewolf371]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

You're kind of making stuff up as you go here. Gates, Gonzo and Pollard got chances bc of rule changes that didn't exist when they started playing? More basketball players are crossing over?

Okay, there's two different points, I'll separate them:

Point 1: Football is becoming a less physical sport, making it more like basketball. This doesn't mean football = basketball, but it does mean there are some aspects of the modern NFL game that a basketball player could pick up very quickly, possibly more so than in the past.

Point 2: Other basketball players have also become great receivers, therefore it's not crazy to think that a basketball player that's more athletic than any of them would have a good shot at making the transition, especially if he also has Point 1 in his favor.

I haven't read about other TEs that were also basketball players, but considering 2 of those three are consistent Pro Bowl/All-Pro selections I still think the point is valid.

[Cebby]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Point 2: Other basketball players have also become great receivers, therefore it's not crazy to think that a basketball player that's more athletic than any of them would have a good shot at making the transition, especially if he also has Point 1 in his favor.

Name another player besides Gates.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Name another player besides Gates.

Tony Gonzalez and Marcus Pollard. That's just from my personal leisure knowledge. I haven't done any research or anything.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Tony Gonzalez and Marcus Pollard. That's just from my personal leisure knowledge. I haven't done any research or anything.

I believe Vincent Jackson was as well.

[CPT]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

The "getting drilled" tackles are becoming more and more rare. It usually hurts the safety just as much as the receiver, plus the NFL is starting to call unnecessary roughness penalties, such as in the case of a safety torpedoing a defenseless receiver. These types of changes will continue at the NFL moves towards an 18-game schedule. Any way you slice it, the running routes part of the game has had a lot of its contact removed and that's probably part of the reason basketball players seem to cross over well. I think Gates, Gonzalez, and Pollard all played basketball, so there's a track record of basketball players being good receiving tight ends.

Guys still get shot, and I'd argue that concussions are more worrisome than all the injuries you listed, but the game is becoming less physical and there are a lot of aspects from basketball that would seamlessly transfer.

Coming from a guy who played FS until college when I moved to CB I would argue that when you lay a guy out - the right way- you feel no pain. It is simply euphoric.....No one who is even remotely intelligent, "torpedoes" anyone on purpose - that is how you end up in a chair forever.......Did you play?

You listed three guys....exactly the same number of guys listed in this thread who went actual double duty in football/baseball in the Bo, Deion, and B.Jordan days... Does this mean that there is a good track record of guys crossing between those two as well? .....Three?

Any way you slice it - football is collision - which is why they not only wear pads but more importantly - why the season is only one game per week for 17 weeks. The human body simply cannot withstand the beating. Not the case in hoops... sorry.

[VTPack919]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Okay, there's two different points, I'll separate them:

Point 1: Football is becoming a less physical sport, making it more like basketball. This doesn't mean football = basketball, but it does mean there are some aspects of the modern NFL game that a basketball player could pick up very quickly, possibly more so than in the past.

Point 2: Other basketball players have also become great receivers, therefore it's not crazy to think that a basketball player that's more athletic than any of them would have a good shot at making the transition, especially if he also has Point 1 in his favor.

I haven't read about other TEs that were also basketball players, but considering 2 of those three are consistent Pro Bowl/All-Pro selections I still think the point is valid.

Point 1: Apples to Oranges. Never should the two be compared in this manner. I don't care what "point" you think you are making.

Point 2: Talk about stretching a sample size. That's three players out of how many in the NFL. Trot Nixon signed a LOI to play quarterback in high school but ended up in the MLB. Is it then fair to say that an athletic football players can make the baseball transition because he did it.* Most of these guys are athletic as hell and probably excelled in most sports they played in. There is no trend between football and basketball because those three managed it.

*Note - that makes no sense. Just like your "point 2".

Edit: Should have read the post above mine. Kind of mirrors my post. Sorry for the redundancy.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Coming from a guy who played FS until college when I moved to CB I would argue that when you lay a guy out - the right way- you feel no pain. It is simply euphoric.....No one who is even remotely intelligent, "torpedoes" anyone on purpose - that is how you end up in a chair forever.......Did you play?

You listed three guys....exactly the same number of guys listed in this thread who went actual double duty in football/baseball in the Bo, Deion, and B.Jordan days... Does this mean that there is a good track record of guys crossing between those two as well? .....Three?

Any way you slice it - football is collision - which is why they not only wear pads but more importantly - why the season is only one game per week for 17 weeks. The human body simply cannot withstand the beating. Not the case in hoops... sorry.

Well on tackling, no one is going to tackle the right way every time. If you go for the big hit, sooner or later you're going to get hurt just as badly yourself. The more physical evidence is that safeties are among the most common injury report listings in the league, my anecdotal evidence is the numerous number of times I've seen a safety deck a player and not get up while the offensive player hops up and runs back to the huddle. As for the decision to torpedo, all I can say is the league has taken a hard stance on it for a reason, and I doubt the reason included every player in the NFL abstaining from torpedoing defenseless receivers.

The guys I listed were off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. da ThRONe mentioned Vincent Jackson right after me, so I guess that's four. I'm never going to say that every player in the NFL played basketball, haha, just that some players have made the transition.

As for the beating/comparison to hoops, I never said they were the same, I said there were a number of similar aspects that would translate, particularly with route running and handling the football in traffic. Obviously LeBron would have to find it within him to take the punishment, but a lot of the skills he uses on the basketball court would translate, and with a body and mentality like his I think he'd be able to take the contact.

Point 1: Apples to Oranges. Never should the two be compared in this manner. I don't care what "point" you think you are making.

Point 2: Talk about stretching a sample size. That's three players out of how many in the NFL. Trot Nixon signed a LOI to play quarterback in high school but ended up in the MLB. Is it then fair to say that an athletic football players can make the baseball transition because he did it.* Most of these guys are athletic as hell and probably excelled in most sports they played in. There is no trend between football and basketball because those three managed it.

*Note - that makes no sense. Just like your "point 2".

Edit: Should have read the post above mine. Kind of mirrors my post. Sorry for the redundancy.

I haven't done any substantial research on it, those were three guys off the top of my head; there's probably a decent chunk more out there.

[CPT]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Well on tackling, no one is going to tackle the right way every time. If you go for the big hit, sooner or later you're going to get hurt just as badly yourself. The more physical evidence is that safeties are among the most common injury report listings in the league, my anecdotal evidence is the numerous number of times I've seen a safety deck a player and not get up while the offensive player hops up and runs back to the huddle. As for the decision to torpedo, all I can say is the league has taken a hard stance on it for a reason, and I doubt the reason included every player in the NFL abstaining from torpedoing defenseless receivers.

The guys I listed were off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. da ThRONe mentioned Vincent Jackson right after me, so I guess that's four. I'm never going to say that every player in the NFL played basketball, haha, just that some players have made the transition.

I haven't done any substantial research on it, those were three guys off the top of my head; there's probably a decent chunk more out there.

A) Please share this report with me re: the oft injured safties. I would imagine that the sample size (if Bob Sanders is removed) will be fairly small. I know for fact that DB's most common injury is a broken or sprained finger/thumb or wrist - not exactly time-missing injuries. On the injured list and not playing are very different.

B) Guys who already were playing hoops and football is not a 'transition' -playing two and choosing one is a "choice."

I didnt catch if you played or not...

...and quit calling it a "torpedo." The league has taken a hard stance on helmet to helmet/or leading with the head because is it dangerous as well as to protect the reciever. It has been written on the back of every helmet for over 30years...I dont recall seeing any warnings on any basketball gear.

again - collision vs contact.

[Cebby]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Tony Gonzalez and Marcus Pollard. That's just from my personal leisure knowledge. I haven't done any research or anything.

Gonzalez didn't switch to football from basketball. Stop using him as an example; it's very stupid.

Pollard was like Gates who quit football in college. There's a big difference between being out of a sport for three or four years and being out of it for 10 years.

[wwharton]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

Okay, there's two different points, I'll separate them:

Point 1: Football is becoming a less physical sport, making it more like basketball. This doesn't mean football = basketball, but it does mean there are some aspects of the modern NFL game that a basketball player could pick up very quickly, possibly more so than in the past.

Point 2: Other basketball players have also become great receivers, therefore it's not crazy to think that a basketball player that's more athletic than any of them would have a good shot at making the transition, especially if he also has Point 1 in his favor.

I haven't read about other TEs that were also basketball players, but considering 2 of those three are consistent Pro Bowl/All-Pro selections I still think the point is valid.

As these guys have already said, these aren't examples of basketball players. College doesn't even really count. The athleticism can transfer in college but the pros are a completely different story, and there are no examples of pro basketball players turning to the NFL or vice versa. You are making it sound like those three guys played basketball all their lives (like Lebron) and then decided they'd do football and got drafted. They all played football and choose it over basketball... probably bc they had a better chance of going pro in the NFL than the NBA. Doesn't mean one sport is easier than the other but that the skills of the individual better fit one sport than the other.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Could LeBron James compete in the NFL?

A) Please share this report with me re: the oft injured safties. I would imagine that the sample size (if Bob Sanders is removed) will be fairly small. I know for fact that DB's most common injury is a broken or sprained finger/thumb or wrist - not exactly time-missing injuries. On the injured list and not playing are very different.

B) Guys who already were playing hoops and football is not a 'transition' -playing two and choosing one is a "choice."

I didnt catch if you played or not...

...and quit calling it a "torpedo." The league has taken a hard stance on helmet to helmet/or leading with the head because is it dangerous as well as to protect the reciever. It has been written on the back of every helmet for over 30years...I dont recall seeing any warnings on any basketball gear.

again - collision vs contact.

No, I never played.

Bob Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Ed Reed, Rodney Harrison, John Lynch, Tanard Jackson, Jermaine Phillips, and Eugene Wilson have all spent time on the injury report, out of games, in multiple seasons. Here's the Bears/Lions injury report from last season:

http://www.chicagobears.com/team/injuries.html

In which 5/18 players are safeties. For more general stuff, I'm not going to take the time to do research on it, but there is this clinical study at least on TBI (traumatic brain injury) in NFL players. Only one injury (not a finger sprain), but I didn't see anything for large amounts of data that was more general in the quick search I did.

For the whole sample, there were 650 players who experienced 887 concussions during the study period, and the position they were playing was recorded in this analysis. Individually, the position groups most often associated with loss of 7 or more days are the defensive secondary (23.6%), kick unit (19.4 %), quarterbacks (12.5%), and wide receivers (12.5%).

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553967_3

Study period was 1996-2001. I'm also guessing these are clinical concussions which may only include a fraction of all concussions received (a large number are asymptomatic with the tests they use), but the trend is exactly what I would generally expect.

So, to summarize: safeties spend a lot of time on the injury report. The NFL wouldn't have put an increased emphasis on protecting receivers if DBs weren't trying to kill them. This stuff is getting to the point where it's not related to LeBron, so when you disagree with this I'm going to ignore it next time.

At what point in time did I claim basketball was as physical as football? I said some aspects would translate well, particularly with route running and handling the football in traffic. I also said that football is losing some of its physicality, becoming more like "basketball on grass", but I never meant to make the claim that they're equal, sorry if I gave that impression.

You're never going to find an example of a guy that attempting to make a transition because they'd lose too much money and gain too much injury risk. It would be a ridiculously stupid career move to go from the NBA to the NFL, so this is entirely speculative from the output.

Gonzalez didn't switch to football from basketball. Stop using him as an example; it's very stupid.

Pollard was like Gates who quit football in college. There's a big difference between being out of a sport for three or four years and being out of it for 10 years.

As these guys have already said, these aren't examples of basketball players. College doesn't even really count. The athleticism can transfer in college but the pros are a completely different story, and there are no examples of pro basketball players turning to the NFL or vice versa. You are making it sound like those three guys played basketball all their lives (like Lebron) and then decided they'd do football and got drafted. They all played football and choose it over basketball... probably bc they had a better chance of going pro in the NFL than the NBA. Doesn't mean one sport is easier than the other but that the skills of the individual better fit one sport than the other.

Yeah I see what you're saying. But like I said earlier you probably won't see a guy go from the NBA to the NFL because of the loss of money and the increase in injury risk. As for going to the NBA from the NFL, it's probably just general risk to your career. Obviously the biggest reason you see basketball/baseball and football/baseball but not football/basketball is because of the time of year. All I'm saying is that I think LeBron could do it. He was an All-State wide receiver in high school.