Best runningback of all time

[Sportsforever]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Of the running backs in the Top 10 for career rushing yards, Jim Brown ranks 1st in the following categories ...

5.2 Rushing Yards Per Carry
104.3 Rushing Yards Per Game
125.5 Rushing/Receiving Yards Per Game
0.898 Rushing Touchdowns Per Game
1.07 Total Touchdowns Per Game

Despite playing the fewest seasons (9) of anyone in the Top 10 in career rushing yards Jim Brown has more NFL Rushing Titles (8) and led the league in Yards from Scrimmage (6) more than anyone else in the Top 10.

Despite carry the ball all of those times during his career he never missed a game. How many running backs can say they played 9 seasons and never missed a game?

If you adjust Brown's career numbers to a 16 game schedule his numbers average out to...
15,019 yards rushing (1,669 per season)
18,072 yards from scrimmage (2,008 per season)
129 Rushing TD's (14.3 per season)
154 Total TD's (17.1 per season)

Now pick the 9 best seasons for Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, or anyone else you want and they all come up short to Jim Brown's adjusted career numbers.

Jim Brown was and still is the best running back to ever play the game.

A compelling argument can be made for Jim Brown (as can be made for almost every back listed here), but one thing that really stands out to me is Brown played at 6'2" and 245. The DT/NT of the day played at that weight...today the DL averages 50 lbs more than they did in his day. It speaks to how far ahead of his time he was physically, but he was basically the biggest guy on the field. Was he great? Heck, ya. Would he be as great today as he was then? I'm not so sure.

[ANDROMADA 1]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Firstly, that is a terrible ****ing example.

Secondly, Juwan Howard was a good NBA player for a span of 7-8 years, but he fizzled out of his prime quickly and started ring chasing. The bum.

Thirdly, comparing NBA players to football players is as incongruent as you can get. The average NFL runningback's prime career is 3-5 years, if that. Curtis played 10 years at a consistently high level. Enough to net him 4th all-time on the runningback list. His accomplishments dwarf Juwan Howards.

Fourthly, if any comparison to Curtis Martin is even applicable it would be Jason Kidd. Both have/had played at a consistently high level and both quietly have had hall of fame careers. Did you know Jason Kidd is 3rd all time in 3 pointers made?

So you don't like the example. Okay. You still get the point which is martin is nOT the best. Howard being good???No Howard the best is the comparison. Martin doesn't dwarf Howard. you would at least have to have a championship since he played sooooooooooooo many years on such a high level. Nobody plays pro sports for longevity. They don't hand out trophys for being better than average and not winning any championships for a running back that some even remotely consider to be the "best"

P.S. Yes, I know kidd can hit 3's. He's played for like 20 years and has a championship to boot.

[DukeC]

Re: Best runningback of all time

So you don't like the example. Okay. You still get the point which is martin is nOT the best. Howard being good???No Howard the best is the comparison. Martin doesn't dwarf Howard. you would at least have to have a championship since he played sooooooooooooo many years on such a high level. Nobody plays pro sports for longevity. They don't hand out trophys for being better than average and not winning any championships for a running back that some even remotely consider to be the "best"

P.S. Yes, I know kidd can hit 3's. He's played for like 20 years and has a championship to boot.

I don't like the example because it's a REALLLY BAD example.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...M/MartCu00.htm

Look at his stats. Look at them. Look at where he stands at for his career. 4th All time in rushing and 3rd All time in attempts.

Juwan Howard doesn't even come close. Like I said before, Jason Kidd comes closest as the best comparison, but you can also argue that Jason Kidd fits Emmitt Smith as well because they BOTH have played WAAAAAAY past their primes. Especially when Emmitt joined the Cardinals but let's not remember THAT shall we?

Oh, Jason Kidd's stats btw. http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../kiddja01.html

3rd all time in 3 pointers made. 2nd all time in assists and 2nd all time in steals.

Now, you can persist in not calling Curtis Martin an exceptional back if you want to JUST because he didn't win any championships (Which, quite frankly, is an absolutely absurd measurement for success for any football player, but especially for a runningback. Get that mess out of here) but facts state otherwise.

Oh and here's there career accomplishments side by side to destroy the notion that Juwan Howard was at the same level of Curtis at any point in time. And that comparison is STILL absurd.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...M/MartCu00.htm

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howarju01.html

Yep. Juwan Howard sure is a good comparison to Curtis Martin who never missed more than 8 games in his entire career. Yep, that makes tons of sense. Then, considering how many more runningbacks there have been in the NFL compared to PLAYERS in the NBA? Yep, you're making loads of sense right now.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Best runningback of all time

And y'all are still trying to define greatness by stats? lol

Greatness isn't what is recorded in the stat sheets, its how many guys look to you to lead them to victory. The first person to clock in and the last one to clock out. He's always ready to go to work. The 'eye test' is actually the main determining factor in greatness IMO. Majority of the folks in the discussion may not think Curtis Martin was one of the greatest backs in history but if you ask diehard Jets' fans you'll get a different answer. We didn't watch him clock in and out every day like they did -- their perception of him will be different.

For example, if we ask most people on this board to give them the next best WR not named Jerry Rice and Terrel Owens name will probably won't be at the top of many lists. His stats are HOF worthy by themselves but the perception to the public is that he's an a--hole, which tarnishes his greatness IMO.

I'm glad that Martin thing has started up some very well researched posts -- good stuff.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Best runningback of all time

but you can also argue that Jason Kidd fits Emmitt Smith as well because they BOTH have played WAAAAAAY past their primes. Especially when Emmitt joined the Cardinals just to break Walter's record, but let's not remember THAT shall we?

Emmitt didn't join the Cardinals to break Peyton's record. He broke that record as a Cowboy halfway through the 2002 season. He already had all of his records before he ever played for the Cardinals. He joined the Cardinals because he still wanted to play football.

[DukeC]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Emmitt didn't join the Cardinals to break Peyton's record. He broke that record as a Cowboy halfway through the 2002 season. He already had all of his records before he ever played for the Cardinals. He joined the Cardinals because he still wanted to play football.

You're right. Thank you for correcting me there. It was an abomination seeing him in Red, hence the overreaction. Still, that was Yuck.

[Champion8877]

Re: Best runningback of all time

And y'all are still trying to define greatness by stats? lol

For example, if we ask most people on this board to give them the next best WR not named Jerry Rice and Terrel Owens name will probably won't be at the top of many lists. His stats are HOF worthy by themselves but the perception to the public is that he's an a--hole, which tarnishes his greatness IMO.

But I'm sure anybody who knows football would put Owens in the top 10. Despite the way he acted and burnt a bridge with pretty much every team he played for, his stats are there. And you cannot argue stats, maybe because of his actions he isn't considered the #2, he is still one of the greats based on stats and how well he performed.

The same thing sorta goes for Martin. First off, I don't think anybody is arguing that he is the best RB of all time, this conversation started because somebody said "he quietly had one of the best careers of any RB" or something like that. Nobody is saying he is the best, but he is one of the best. You cannot argue against the stats. Sure Martin wasn't flashy, he didn't wow you with his moves. But he performed at a consitantly high level for many years and at the end of the day he is in the record books as the 4th all time in rushing yards. That means something, stats do matter.

[ANDROMADA 1]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I don't like the example because it's a REALLLY BAD example.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...M/MartCu00.htm

Look at his stats. Look at them. Look at where he stands at for his career. 4th All time in rushing and 3rd All time in attempts.

Juwan Howard doesn't even come close. Like I said before, Jason Kidd comes closest as the best comparison, but you can also argue that Jason Kidd fits Emmitt Smith as well because they BOTH have played WAAAAAAY past their primes. Especially when Emmitt joined the Cardinals but let's not remember THAT shall we?

Oh, Jason Kidd's stats btw. http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../kiddja01.html

3rd all time in 3 pointers made. 2nd all time in assists and 2nd all time in steals.

Now, you can persist in not calling Curtis Martin an exceptional back if you want to JUST because he didn't win any championships (Which, quite frankly, is an absolutely absurd measurement for success for any football player, but especially for a runningback. Get that mess out of here) but facts state otherwise.

Oh and here's there career accomplishments side by side to destroy the notion that Juwan Howard was at the same level of Curtis at any point in time. And that comparison is STILL absurd.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...M/MartCu00.htm

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howarju01.html

Yep. Juwan Howard sure is a good comparison to Curtis Martin who never missed more than 8 games in his entire career. Yep, that makes tons of sense. Then, considering how many more runningbacks there have been in the NFL compared to PLAYERS in the NBA? Yep, you're making loads of sense right now.

Noted. Don't worry I'm not going to bother reading up all those stats or links, no need to. You disagree, so be it.

thanks

[wwharton]

Re: Best runningback of all time

A compelling argument can be made for Jim Brown (as can be made for almost every back listed here), but one thing that really stands out to me is Brown played at 6'2" and 245. The DT/NT of the day played at that weight...today the DL averages 50 lbs more than they did in his day. It speaks to how far ahead of his time he was physically, but he was basically the biggest guy on the field. Was he great? Heck, ya. Would he be as great today as he was then? I'm not so sure.

Not sure how that can be held against him though. Either we can compare across generations or we can't. If we can, than this is more an explanation for his greatness than a knock on it. I'm sure he wasn't the only guy his size playing in the NFL back then. But he was the only one able to play the RB position the way he did at that size.

So you don't like the example. Okay. You still get the point which is martin is nOT the best. Howard being good???No Howard the best is the comparison. Martin doesn't dwarf Howard. you would at least have to have a championship since he played sooooooooooooo many years on such a high level. Nobody plays pro sports for longevity. They don't hand out trophys for being better than average and not winning any championships for a running back that some even remotely consider to be the "best"

P.S. Yes, I know kidd can hit 3's. He's played for like 20 years and has a championship to boot.

It really is just an awful comparison though. Howard's still in the league but he's getting like 5 mins a season. He's an after thought that gets garbage time after the after thoughts. Meanwhile, even when he was relevant he didn't have a role on any team as important as Martin's was. There really is no angle where that example works.

[ANDROMADA 1]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Not sure how that can be held against him though. Either we can compare across generations or we can't. If we can, than this is more an explanation for his greatness than a knock on it. I'm sure he wasn't the only guy his size playing in the NFL back then. But he was the only one able to play the RB position the way he did at that size.



It really is just an awful comparison though. Howard's still in the league but he's getting like 5 mins a season. He's an after thought that gets garbage time after the after thoughts. Meanwhile, even when he was relevant he didn't have a role on any team as important as Martin's was. There really is no angle where that example works.

I hear you. Which is why I mentioned Howard in the first place ...He and Martin do not belong in this thread topic relative to being the "best" imo.

have a good afternoon

[Champion8877]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I hear you. Which is why I mentioned Howard in the first place ...He and Martin do not belong in this thread topic relative to being the "best" imo.

have a good afternoon

The thing is, nobody said he was the best, not one person claimed that he was better than Barry, Payton, Emmitt, or Brown. Martin came up because bkrich said "Martin quietly had one of the greatest careers a running back could have." Which he for sure did, in fact he had the about the 4th best career a running back could have.

But nobody is saying he is the 4th best running back skill wise, just that statistically he had an amazing career.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I hear you. Which is why I mentioned Howard in the first place ...He and Martin do not belong in this thread topic relative to being the "best" imo.

have a good afternoon

Once again you missed the mark by a country mile.

[ImaGamer_OS]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I voted Barry Sanders.

[JayBee74]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Jim Brown all the way.

[redsrule]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I think it is Barry Sanders by far.