Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

[skydog71]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Ben - 2 rings
Plunkett - 2 rings

There ya go, fixed it for you.

[tripwire]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

There ya go, fixed it for you.

To his credit, Plunkett played good/great in those SB runs, especially in '80. I still remember both runs pretty vividly.

I must be old.

[skydog71]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Actually, it looks like Roethlisberger and Plunkett are the only 2 QB's who have more rings than Pro Bowls.

[Evan_OS]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Never would have thought you would fall into the trap of numbers. If a RB has 1 or 2 games with 20 carries for 200+ yards, it would skew his total for the season, but it wouldn't tell the whole story if he had more bad games than good ones. The OVERALL numbers are flawed in many ways. All running stats are lumped into those numbers, including reverses and QB scrambles.

A run support game is with running backs. Just to show you what i mean, Ben has played 14 games this season, and he's had 100 yard rushing support in 7 of those from his backs combined (50%). In 5 of those games, it was between 106-116, one game was 145, and the other 188. Just for comparison sake, Brady had 100 or more rushing yards from his backs in 10 of his 17 starts (59%).

There's so many examples of looking inside the true numbers, but i don't want to do all that work to find them right now. I know how good or bad the Steeler run game is, and that comes with watching every game.

I guess you didn't know Ben was suspended 4 games to start the season. During that time, they passed the ball 39.7% of the times. When Ben returned, they passed it 53.4% of the times. Last season was 55.6%. I'll correct my split to 55-45, and that's with the Steelers closing games out by running it, unlike some of the QBs who keep piling stats in games that were over at the half.

Numbers, they don't always tell the whole story.

You seriously think Manning piles stats?

Manning has thrown 399 TD's in his career, he's played 208 games. For his career, he's only averaging 1.918 TD's a game, basically 2 TD's. How exactly is that "piling stats".

[tripwire]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

You seriously think Manning?

Manning has thrown 399 TD's in his career, he's played 208 games. For his career, he's only averaging 1.918 TD's a game, basically 2 TD's. How exactly is that "piling stats".

Nobody is disputing the numbers he has. They look nice don't they?

[z Revis]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Never would have thought you would fall into the trap of numbers. If a RB has 1 or 2 games with 20 carries for 200+ yards, it would skew his total for the season, but it wouldn't tell the whole story if he had more bad games than good ones. The OVERALL numbers are flawed in many ways. All running stats are lumped into those numbers, including reverses and QB scrambles.

A run support game is with running backs. Just to show you what i mean, Ben has played 14 games this season, and he's had 100 yard rushing support in 7 of those from his backs combined (50%). In 5 of those games, it was between 106-116, one game was 145, and the other 188. Just for comparison sake, Brady had 100 or more rushing yards from his backs in 10 of his 17 starts (59%).

There's so many examples of looking inside the true numbers, but i don't want to do all that work to find them right now. I know how good or bad the Steeler run game is, and that comes with watching every game.

So you're basically saying that the numbers are skewed? I don't buy it. Numbers can be skewed for 1 game. Or 4 games. Or MAYBE even a half a season. But not a full season.

I guess you didn't know Ben was suspended 4 games to start the season. During that time, they passed the ball 39.7% of the times. When Ben returned, they passed it 53.4% of the times. Last season was 55.6%. I'll correct my split to 55-45, and that's with the Steelers closing games out by running it, unlike some of the QBs who keep piling stats in games that were over at the half.

Numbers, they don't always tell the whole story.

My bad on that, did forget he was suspended. Still isn't 60-40. 55-45 sounds about right.

This has me thinking of what the Colts ratio is. 70-30?

You seriously think Manning?

Manning has thrown 399 TD's in his career, he's played 208 games. For his career, he's only averaging 1.918 TD's a game, basically 2 TD's. How exactly is that "piling stats".

I think he's referring to the whole "running up the score" thing with the Patriots. Still shouldn't be brought up. Even if you took away the garbage time stats away from Brady, they'd still be superior to Big Ben's.

[jeremym480]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

I'd take either of the three as the backup in Green Bay

In all seriousness, all three are great in their own regard. Most people would put Big Ben third, as would I. However, in crunch time I'd put him up there with anyone. He is about as clutch as they come.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

I'd take either of the three as the backup in Green Bay

In all seriousness, all three are great in their own regard. Most people would put Big Ben third, as would I. However, in crunch time I'd put him up there with anyone. He is about as clutch as they come.

Exactly.

People get too infatuated with style points sometimes(aka the High TD, Passing Yd numbers)but when a game is on the line, they forget that Ben is one of, if not the best in that category.

[tripwire]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

So you're basically saying that the numbers are skewed? I don't buy it. Numbers can be skewed for 1 game. Or 4 games. Or MAYBE even a half a season. But not a full season.

Ben had 100 yards rushing support in 7 of his 14 games, Brady 10 of his 17. You can't skew those facts. Looking at attempts/game and avg rushing just doesn't tell the whole story.

Look and Mendenhall for example, 1273 yards, (7th overall), and a 3.9 avg. Not bad you think, but when you look deeper you'll see it wasn't a good season at all. The run game was inconsistent and average all season, and has been that way for years.

Only 3 games with more than 100 yards rushing out of 16
5 games with a mediocre run average between 3.0-3.7
4 games with a measly run average between 2.5-2.6

That's why overall stats usually NEVER tell you the true story.

My bad on that, did forget he was suspended. Still isn't 60-40. 55-45 sounds about right.

This has me thinking of what the Colts ratio is. 70-30?

In Indy, it's safe to say that's been by choice. They can try and run it more if they wanted to.

I think he's referring to the whole "running up the score" thing with the Patriots. Still shouldn't be brought up. Even if you took away the garbage time stats away from Brady, they'd still be superior to Big Ben's.

Ben's got a better career YPA, but he can't match up to most stats those 2 put up. Some of that is by choice, as the Steelers do not run up scores for the most part, (they choose to run games out and close down the passing game with a lead), and they abide by the Rooney's wishes to always try the run game, even if it fails over and over again.

Brady and Manning would not have the numbers they do now if they played with the Steelers, but i don't hear that too often. Pittsburgh wouldn't all of a sudden go to a 70-30 pass vs run split because Tom or Peyton came to town. It's not the Steeler way.

That's why i put more stock into overall performances within the team system and current circumstances over just plain numbers.

[CW McGraw]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Quick question: If Ben is in Peyton and Brady's league, why don't the Steelers let him throw the ball as much? If I've got an elite QB and elite defense, why even let the game be close? I'm gonna let my best offensive player take the game over while my great defense gets to rush the passer all game long.

[tripwire]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Quick question: If Ben is in Peyton and Brady's league, why don't the Steelers let him throw the ball as much? If I've got an elite QB and elite defense, why even let the game be close? I'm gonna let my best offensive player take the game over while my great defense gets to rush the passer all game long.

They will only do that if they need him to, such as the 4 games last year with 40+ passes. It's not the Steeler way, and for them, it's not about individual success. They will always believe that a run game, even if it fails, must be tried, especially with the lead. As long as the Rooney's are there in power, you won't EVER see a 70-30 pass vs run split, no matter who the QB is.

Team success always comes first. You don't get 6 SB rings worrying about letting your QB air it out for the wrong reasons.

[Bellsprout]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

I love threads like this.

Pick the guy from my favorite team or you're wrong!!!!

There isn't a wrong answer among the 3 options. I'd feel comfortable with any of them.

[CW McGraw]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

They will only do that if they need him to, such as the 4 games last year with 40+ passes. It's not the Steeler way, and for them, it's not about individual success. They will always believe that a run game, even if it fails, must be tried, especially with the lead. As long as the Rooney's are there in power, you won't EVER see a 70-30 pass vs run split, no matter who the QB is.

Team success always comes first. You don't get 6 SB rings worrying about letting your QB air it out for the wrong reasons.

So if letting your QB only do just enough to win games is one of the reasons for the Steelers' success, how can anyone (not necessarily you) blame Manning for not winning more Super Bowls? After all, the Colts aren't built and run the right way.

[biglen]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

That has nothing to do with my point. My point is that when you get pressure on him he folds. Obviously they didn't get the same pressure in both games.

Wow, I would kill to have a QB like Brady who "folds" when pressured. He is probably the most successful QB that "folds" under pressure I guess.

[kingkilla56]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

We need a limit on qb comparison threads per week.