Good player, bad team?

[phillysouljah]

Re: Good player, bad team?

Adrian Peterson

Are the Vikings a bad team? Granted, with a rookie QB they'll struggle and that defense is getting old but 6-10 is not that terrible of a record, especially in the context of them going 12-4 and 10-6 the two years prior. The Vikings are, at worst, a middling team.

[Sanchez_Mareno]

Re: Good player, bad team?

Are the Vikings a bad team? Granted, with a rookie QB they'll struggle and that defense is getting old but 6-10 is not that terrible of a record, especially in the context of them going 12-4 and 10-6 the two years prior. The Vikings are, at worst, a middling team.

Rookie QB in a shortened off season. 4-12 is quite possible

[Feared]

Re: Good player, bad team?

It's amazing to see how much of an impact Kurt Warner was to that team, but if you're saying Fitzgerald was only good because of Warner that is highly disagreeable.

No I know Fitzgerald is a great receiver regardless of who is at QB, what I was trying to get at is the Cardinals fell back into playing poorly only recently last season. Where as some other teams have been so bad for so long, and that is what really makes you appreciate the lone bright spots on those teams that play at a high level.

For example Fitzgerald has enjoyed at least some success going on a Super Bowl run, where as Calvin Johnson hasn't even sniffed a winning season with the Lions yet. I was kind of looking at the bigger picture of over the past 5 seasons rather than just last season. Which is why I did not mention Steve Smith. The Panthers were dismal last season, but over his career there he, and the Panthers have had a lot of successful seasons and post season victories.

[Sanchez_Mareno]

Re: Good player, bad team?

No I know Fitzgerald is a great receiver regardless of who is at QB, what I was trying to get at is the Cardinals fell back into playing poorly only recently last season. Where as some other teams have been so bad for so long, and that is what really makes you appreciate the lone bright spots on those teams that play at a high level.

For example Fitzgerald has enjoyed at least some success going on a Super Bowl run, where as Calvin Johnson hasn't even sniffed a winning season with the Lions yet. I was kind of looking at the bigger picture of over the past 5 seasons rather than just last season. Which is why I did not mention Steve Smith. The Panthers were dismal last season, but over his career there he, and the Panthers have had a lot of successful seasons and post season victories.

Nitpicky but 7-9 is sniffing a winning season

[phillysouljah]

Re: Good player, bad team?

With a rookie QB, the Vikes will probably go something like 4-12 but how does that make them a bad team? It's purely because of a rookie QB. You give them a Jeff Garcia and they probably can eek out at least a 6-10 record, as they did last year with Brett Favre, correct?

That means the team isn't bad! It's a middling team!

Talent-wise at everywhere but the QB position, both the Vikings and Cardinals are middling teams. They have the talent to be in the 7-9/8-8 ballpark.

For the Cardinals, Kurt Warner had the capability of bringing them a few more wins. A Derek Anderson/Max Hall had a deleterious affect of losing some games for the team.

Beyond the QB position, the Cardinals are a middling team, not a bad team.

Nitpicky but 7-9 is sniffing a winning season

Nitpicky but who went 7-9? Sure wasn't the Lions.

[Madwolf]

Re: Good player, bad team?

First 2 names to come to mind: Larry Fitz and DeAngelo Williams

Carolina isn't a bad team. They just had an awful coaching staff last year who had been shown the door pre-2010 draft. They just went through the motions.

Carolina has the best chance for a fast turn-around in the 2011 season. I don't expect them to be the Dolphins of a few years back, but they'll compete for a .500 record.

[phillysouljah]

Re: Good player, bad team?

The problem is you can never use a single season as representative of the caliber of a team; injuries, schedules, sheer luck, and a variety of other factors can make a good team have a bad season and a bad team have a good season.

That's why you need to look at a team over 2-3 years to be able to be sure that that team is a bad team.

Consider, only one team last year was under .250: the Carolina Panthers at 2-14. Now the Panthers were abysmal but came off an 8-8 season the year before and a 12-4 campaign the year before that. They could very well be degrading and the 8-8 campaign could be the beginning of their free-fall. Still, 2-14 may have been an aberration. It's not wise to hold a single season against a team, anymore than holding a single game against a team.

Over the last few years, though, it is obvious who the truly bad teams are, though:

Buffalo Bills: Have not had a winning season since 2004; 7-9, 6-10, 4-12 over last 3 seasons.
Oakland Raiders: Last winning season in 2002; 5-11, 5-11, 8-8 over last 3 seasons.
Cleveland Browns: Last winning season in 2007; 4-12, 5-11, 5-11 over last 3 seasons
Washington Redskins: Last winning season in 2007; 8-8, 4-12, 6-10 since.
Detroit Lions: Last winning season in 2000 (!); 0-16, 2-14, 6-10 last 3 years
Seattle Seahawks: Last winning season in 2007; 4-12, 5-11, 7-9 since.
St Louis Rams: Last winning season in 2003; 2-14, 1-15, 7-9 last 3 years.


Teams like the Broncos, 49ers, Texans, etc. are middling. They've hovered around .500 over the past few years. Teams like the Bengals and Titans had recent great seasons in the middle of terrible ones.

Now, of course, especially for the really bad teams, these may be different teams now than they were over the past few years; poor performance results in coaching changes and a lot of turnover of players. Every team on that list except for the Seahawks has had a different coach and different starting QB since 3 years ago (the Seahawks, of course, have gone through 3 coaches since then but have kept Hasselbeck)

[Sanchez_Mareno]

Re: Good player, bad team?

Nitpicky but who went 7-9? Sure wasn't the Lions.

Lions in 07 with Johnson on the team. Mike Martz year IIRC

[phillysouljah]

Re: Good player, bad team?

Lions in 07 with Johnson on the team. Mike Martz year IIRC

True. Calvin Johnson's rookie year. I'm sure that feels like a long time ago to him

[Madwolf]

Re: Good player, bad team?

I think the Lions, Rams, and Bills are headed in the right direction.

[mestevo]

Re: Good player, bad team?

IMO Oakland has had some of the more talented rosters in the league over the last handful of years, just haven't had the consistency or proper administration to make them into a team.

Cable got them the closest to that since Callahan took Gruden's team into that embarrassing Super Bowl loss, and then he was fired anyways.

[pw_1016]

Re: Good player, bad team?

Fred Jackson
Dwayne Bowe
Eric Berry
Muhammed Massquoi
Kenny Britt
Michael Crabtree

[mestevo]

Re: Good player, bad team?

Dwayne Bowe
Eric Berry

Maybe it's just me, but winning the division, and going to the pro bowl, this comes across more like them not being on a good team, but instead just unhappy they aren't on yours.

[pw_1016]

Re: Good player, bad team?

Maybe it's just me, but winning the division, and going to the pro bowl, this comes across more like them not being on a good team, but instead just unhappy they aren't on yours.

The Chiefs have had one good year out of the last who knows how many ..so that are not that good of a team to me. One good year does not all of a sudden make them a dynasty or make them relevant.

[mestevo]

Re: Good player, bad team?

The Chiefs have had one good year out of the last who knows how many ..so that are not that good of a team to me. One good year does not all of a sudden make them a dynasty or make them relevant.

I don't know, from reading the thread I didn't get the impression this was supposed to be 'lets name every good player that isn't on the 3-4 best teams' if 'not a dynasty' qualifies a team as 'bad'.

The 2010 Chiefs were a good team, and it's an accomplishment for Bowe to have done as well as he did on a run-first team that led the league in rushing.

If he didn't develop some stonehands for a stretch he'd have challenged some of Moss's records.