NFL Off Topic

[Jeffx]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I’m happy to have had the pleasure to watch him throughout his career. I’m sure all of us partly hate him for beating our own team but his greatness is undeniable.

He never beat my team when it counted (Giants).

Brady's great, but not above Joe Cool & Johnny U, IMO.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: NFL Off Topic

So wtf apparently there are conflicting reports Brady is set to retire. Oh boy.. if the media confirmed this too early...

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Apparently the TB12 company account tweeted it first. The only issue I'd think is that he may need to rework his deal with the Bucs first. I recall that was an issue with Buffalo when Eric Wood had to retire for medical reasons. They had to actually interrupt his retirement announcement over it.

[kehlis]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I think he's owed a bunch of money in February and if he retires now he would lose that.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Brady is also probably upset (understandably) that news of his retirement leaked to the press early, so is intentionally muddying the waters before his future announcement. He doesn't want to upstage the playoffs and wants to do this in his own time and place.

Still think he's retiring. He's already said publicly he doesn't want to go through the hoopla of an extended farewell tour.

[KSUowls]

Re: NFL Off Topic

He contributed to the worse night in Atlanta sports history, but I'm sad to think of a NFL without him.

He's succeeded as a passer both with and without real weapons. It was fun watching him work without much of a supporting cast in a lot of those New England years, and it was a lot of fun watching him with Randy Moss and in TB. Definitely an entertaining player to watch, and he will be missed.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I don't really know how you could call Brady overrated. He played on some great teams but we saw his greatness on display time and time again.

He wasn't even the most skilled. Arod has a better arm. Was more accurate. Brees and Manning had the counting stats. And yet who do you want on your team.

Now if you mean the media overhyping him. Then yea, because they set he bar so high and some of them really think he can walk on water.

There won't ever be another Tom Brady. I couldn't appreciate him like I should have when he was a Patriot. But I sure as hell did his last few years in Tampa.




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Well, it does seem contradictory to call someone the GOAT at the game's most important position and also say they're overrated.

Anyways, I'll use this as a segue to rekindle the Brady/Manning wars for old time's sake and restate my old position that peak Brady wasn't even the best peak QB of his era (I still think that's Peyton Manning), which definitely distinguishes him from the other North American sports GOATs (Jordan, Ruth, Gretzky). Undoubtably had the GOAT career, though.

His resume and accolades make him untouchable. No one has had close to the same level of success as he has had.

BUT, those teams he was on get overlooked. Lord knows Patriots beat the Ravens more than once in the playoffs*, but not one of those games did I feel Brady beat us. In each of his SBs, I didn't come away thinking he carried them to a title. His teams win so much we find ourselves saying "its tough to beat Brady" but when you look back at those moments its usually not Brady that won the game. Colts also beat the Ravens. And every single time I came away saying "that damn Peyton got us"

Even the most ardent Brady ***** would have to put him in the top 3 I think. Even if one were to agree with what I just said above, they would still have to concede that Brady rarely made mistakes or put his team in bad spots. Over an entire career that is crazy impressive. But put Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, etc on the Patriots and would the Patriots not be as good? I don't think so. Now put Brady on Peyton's Colts, Brees' Saints, or Rodgers' Packers. I'm not convinced those teams would be as good.

In the end that is just speculation though. His accolades aren't speculation, they're facts. So I'll acknowledge him as the GOAT, but when no one is around I'll whisper to myself "Peyton was better"

*For my biased money, for the latter half of Brady's run with NE I think the Bal-NE rivalry was NE's best. Flacco actually outplayed Tom multiple times, and also many times Baltimore was the opponent NE fans least wanted to see. They were always tough games. I'm still not over Lee Evans and Billy Cundiff.

[steelerfan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

There is a difference between the greatest and the most accomplished. Brady is undeniably the most accomplished player of all time (not just quarterback). But to me, he is neither the greatest player nor the greatest quarterback of all time.

The greatest quarterback in my book is Peyton Manning followed by Joe Montana. The greatest player is Jerry Rice.

I won't argue with anyone who thinks differently. I'll just express my opinion.

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[Blzer]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I always thought it was incredible what Brady could do while being an immobile quarterback. With his age and/or lack of speed, he can't get by adding yards on his own or needing spies on him. So for him to do what he does in a playoff where every other quarterback can break and run (sometimes even by design) always spoke volumes to me.

[ProfessaPackMan]

NFL Off Topic

We would’ve had one more with Brady,
I’m convinced of that. We’d be playing right now if we had Brady.

But this is also why I hate the whole “Plug and Play” mindset that we do with athletes as if it’s that simple. Or I’m just getting old and hate Sports outside of the actual games. [emoji18]

[Hooe]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I think he's owed a bunch of money in February and if he retires now he would lose that.

Yup, Tom Brady has $15,000,000 reasons to not officially retire until after this upcoming Friday.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NFL Off Topic

We would’ve had one more with Brady,
I’m convinced of that. We’d be playing right now if we had Brady.

But this is also why I hate the whole “Plug and Play” mindset that we do with athletes as if it’s that simple. Or I’m just getting old and hate Sports outside of the actual games. [emoji18]

You may be right. I personally think Peyton is the GOAT, but thats not something I would debate because I know I would lose. The argument is clearly in favor of Brady.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: NFL Off Topic

We would’ve had one more with Brady,
I’m convinced of that. We’d be playing right now if we had Brady.

Rodgers has played as well as he ever has these last 2 years. And the Packers couldn't get back.

That was the best defensive performance since 2010. Probably the best since holding Barry to negative yardage in '94. And they found a way to lose.

Its just not meant to be for this team. Changing QBs wouldn't make a difference, and probably would make things worse.

[Hooe]

Re: NFL Off Topic

We would’ve had one more with Brady,
I’m convinced of that. We’d be playing right now if we had Brady.

I have to disagree. Tom Brady doesn't make Brandon Bostick not drop an onside kick, he doesn't make the Giants' pass rush less relentless in their second charmed season, he doesn't change Mike McCarthy's static curl-route-loving offense getting stale, he doesn't change everyone getting injured in 2016 and somehow advancing to the doorstep of the Super Bowl in spite of that, and he doesn't change basically every Packer not under center laying an egg in the 2020 NFC Championship.

Winning a Super Bowl is really hard. It requires great players, great coaching (or at least ahead-of-the-curve coaching), and quite a bit of luck. The New England Patriots at various times over the past two decades fielded several Hall of Fame or All Pro caliber players who did not play quarterback - Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, Rodney Harrison, Lawyer Milloy, Logan Mankins, Randy Moss, Darrelle Revis, Rob Gronkowski, Stephon Gilmore, Devin McCourty, Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Jerod Mayo, D'Onta Hightower, Wes Welker... I could go on, I'm sure I'm missing some dudes. How many great quarterbacks get to play alongside even more than one Hall of Fame player? In Aaron Rodgers' case, I think a similar list of Hall of Fame caliber Packers non-quarterbacks over the past decade-plus starts and ends with Charles Woodson, but maybe Clay Matthews, Jordy Nelson, and Davante Adams as well if one is feeling charitable.

On the sideline, Bill Belichick is not only a first-ballot Hall of Fame head coach but also in my opinion the most important figure in the schematic evolution of modern football defense (he and Nick Saban are 1A and 1B). Arguably the most impressive thing about his tenure is that despite so many of his assistants getting hired elsewhere over the past two decades the Patriots' football operation never once suffered from brain drain. At the bare minimum, we can agree that Bill Belichick coaches circles around Mike McCarthy.

Tom Brady's football resumé is unimpeachable, and he's objectively the most accomplished player to ever put on the pads. That stated as fact, I just don't think it is reasonable at all to hand-wave away that unprecedented excess of riches around him when discussing his career.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I have to disagree. Tom Brady doesn't make Brandon Bostick not drop an onside kick, he doesn't make the Giants' pass rush less relentless in their second charmed season, he doesn't change Mike McCarthy's static curl-route-loving offense getting stale, he doesn't change everyone getting injured in 2016 and somehow advancing to the doorstep of the Super Bowl in spite of that, and he doesn't change basically every Packer not under center laying an egg in the 2020 NFC Championship.

Winning a Super Bowl is really hard. It requires great players, great coaching (or at least ahead-of-the-curve coaching), and quite a bit of luck.

I haven’t mentioned a single moment/game so I’m not sure why you brought those up as if I was speaking in them. [emoji2377]

And yes, we know it’s hard, that doesn’t need to be prefaced every time someone questions/doubts a team/player.

[Hooe]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I haven’t mentioned a single moment/game so I’m not sure why you brought those up as if I was speaking in them. [emoji2377]

I brought up those moments specifically because I’m not sure which other season the Packers are obviously contending for a championship by swapping in a less mobile quarterback into a less dynamic offense with a less capable coaching staff.

2011, 2014, and 2020 are self-evidently the best teams the Packers have put together over the past decade. Those three teams’ fates were sealed by events outside of a quarterback’s control. Changing the quarterback doesn’t change those outcomes.