My solution to the "hold out" craze.

[blackceasar]

Its pretty simple.

If you are still under contract, you play. Period. I dont care if you Led the leage in receptions, and TD's and your current contract is only paying you 800,000 a year. You honor that contract until your contract is over. I think this is what a player does...I will use a 4 year contract as an example. Rookie signing...WR gets 8 million over 4 years. Thats 2 million a year. First year in the league he plays like a "rookie". 2nd year in the league he puts up MVP numbers. So what does he do? He holds out in the offseason before the 3rd year because if he doesnt get a new huge extention signed THEN, in year 3 and 4 he might go back to being an average WR soo then when his contract is up, the team is not as likely to offer him MVP money and neither is any other team cuz they will assume that one great year was just a fluke, so hes trying to get a crapload of money for that one year of great performance he had.

I say if youre still under contract and you dont honor it and at least make it to training camp by a certain date you are suspended without pay for that whole season. It doenst matter by then if your team is willing to give in or not. At that point its no longer your choice or your teams. You are out for that year without pay, plain and simple. And you owe ALL bonus money and inscentives gained from your current contract BACK to the team.

After that season is over the suspension is lifted and you can go back and play for your team BUT still under the money that was agreen upon in the contract that you are still under. If you dont want to play then you sit out and cannot do anything with any other team until your contract years expire with your current team..of course you dont get paid either.

After your contract has expired and if you did hold out and not play for your team, whatever team you do go sign with the new team has to pay your previous team (of which you caused all this ruckus with) a certain percentage of your whatever salary you are getting from the new team. Say if you ink a new 4 year 8 million dollar deal, for every one of those years with the new team, they have to pay your old team 20% of whatever they offered you for each year. (and it counts against thier slary cap as well for those years), this will make other teams think twice about signing you after you screwed your former team over.

Pro sports is the only business where people can decide one day they arent making enough money and just sit on thier laurels. Any other place youd be fired. I also think that after you hold out one time, after the second time you just have to seek employment elsewhere outside of the NFL.

Yeah I know it sounds like im in favor of the NFL teams management but Im not. I think if you are not under contract and youre in negations with teams and you feel like youre worth 8 million a year for the next 7 years then thats what you ask for up front and if no one is willing to pay it, then you are just SOL unless you come down with your figures. Heck with this " I will sign a small contract with them then when I have a breakout year I will act like a brat and sit at home until they give me whatever money I want".

You know you dont HAVE to play in the NFL. Its a priviledge not a right. Which is why I feel like someone like Eli Manning when he didnt wanna play by the draft rules should just be put out of the NFL for good. You get drafted by a team you dont wanna play for, then you decide...either play for the team that rightfully drafted you or permanently leave the NFL. We you leave because of these reasons, there is no coming back. Period.

[Jimplication]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

You know you dont HAVE to play in the NFL. Its a priviledge not a right. Which is why I feel like someone like Eli Manning when he didnt wanna play by the draft rules should just be put out of the NFL for good. You get drafted by a team you dont wanna play for, then you decide...either play for the team that rightfully drafted you or permanently leave the NFL. We you leave because of these reasons, there is no coming back. Period.

Once players join the player's union they are pretty protected, and teams can't really throw them out on the street like they are minimum wage workers. That is one of the benefits unions have, and the professional sports' unions are some of the strongest in the world.

The player's union would never agree to a proposal like the one you present above.

Does it sound nice? Sure, but it won't be happening, ever.

[SPTO]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

I prefer the simpler method

Just cut the player and let him go.

Of course most teams can't afford to do that but teams like Philly have no qualms doing stuff like that cuz their roster is so deep.

[jmood88]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

Its pretty simple.

If you are still under contract, you play. Period. I dont care if you Led the leage in receptions, and TD's and your current contract is only paying you 800,000 a year. You honor that contract until your contract is over. I think this is what a player does...I will use a 4 year contract as an example. Rookie signing...WR gets 8 million over 4 years. Thats 2 million a year. First year in the league he plays like a "rookie". 2nd year in the league he puts up MVP numbers. So what does he do? He holds out in the offseason before the 3rd year because if he doesnt get a new huge extention signed THEN, in year 3 and 4 he might go back to being an average WR soo then when his contract is up, the team is not as likely to offer him MVP money and neither is any other team cuz they will assume that one great year was just a fluke, so hes trying to get a crapload of money for that one year of great performance he had.

I say if youre still under contract and you dont honor it and at least make it to training camp by a certain date you are suspended without pay for that whole season. It doenst matter by then if your team is willing to give in or not. At that point its no longer your choice or your teams. You are out for that year without pay, plain and simple. And you owe ALL bonus money and inscentives gained from your current contract BACK to the team.

After that season is over the suspension is lifted and you can go back and play for your team BUT still under the money that was agreen upon in the contract that you are still under. If you dont want to play then you sit out and cannot do anything with any other team until your contract years expire with your current team..of course you dont get paid either.

After your contract has expired and if you did hold out and not play for your team, whatever team you do go sign with the new team has to pay your previous team (of which you caused all this ruckus with) a certain percentage of your whatever salary you are getting from the new team. Say if you ink a new 4 year 8 million dollar deal, for every one of those years with the new team, they have to pay your old team 20% of whatever they offered you for each year. (and it counts against thier slary cap as well for those years), this will make other teams think twice about signing you after you screwed your former team over.

Pro sports is the only business where people can decide one day they arent making enough money and just sit on thier laurels. Any other place youd be fired. I also think that after you hold out one time, after the second time you just have to seek employment elsewhere outside of the NFL.

Yeah I know it sounds like im in favor of the NFL teams management but Im not. I think if you are not under contract and youre in negations with teams and you feel like youre worth 8 million a year for the next 7 years then thats what you ask for up front and if no one is willing to pay it, then you are just SOL unless you come down with your figures. Heck with this " I will sign a small contract with them then when I have a breakout year I will act like a brat and sit at home until they give me whatever money I want".

You know you dont HAVE to play in the NFL. Its a priviledge not a right. Which is why I feel like someone like Eli Manning when he didnt wanna play by the draft rules should just be put out of the NFL for good. You get drafted by a team you dont wanna play for, then you decide...either play for the team that rightfully drafted you or permanently leave the NFL. We you leave because of these reasons, there is no coming back. Period.

So what do you propose happens to the teams who force players to renegotiate contracts that they signed?

[Freelance]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

So what do you propose happens to the teams who force players to renegotiate contracts that they signed?

Just won't grasp this, will you.

Look, let's guarantee the contracts like you want, get rid of the salary cap, and eliminate signing bonuses. Then we'll have the same system as baseball.

Teams and players in the NFL do contracts this way because of the high frequency of injury and the salary cap.

[jmood88]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

Just won't grasp this, will you.

Look, let's guarantee the contracts like you want, get rid of the salary cap, and eliminate signing bonuses. Then we'll have the same system as baseball.

Teams and players in the NFL do contracts this way because of the high frequency of injury and the salary cap.

Did I say that I want the same system as baseball? People always want the players to stop being "greedy" when nfl players have the highest risk out of all of pro sports of sustaining a serious injury and not being able to work later on in life. And the little "just won't grasp this" comment wasn't necessary at all and I would appreciate it if you would try to have a discussion without trying to insult me.

[Freelance]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

Did I say that I want the same system as baseball? People always want the players to stop being "greedy" when nfl players have the highest risk out of all of pro sports of sustaining a serious injury and not being able to work later on in life. And the little "just won't grasp this" comment wasn't necessary at all and I would appreciate it if you would try to have a discussion without trying to insult me.

Sorry, jmood. Not trying to insult you, seriously. It's just that the signing bonus is what guarantees the contract.

This works in favor of the player. Often times, a team is playing poorly and needs to dump salary. Then, the player that got the big bonus and is released can more quickly go get ANOTHER big bonus for a term deal.

The length of contracts is designed to help a team scatter that signing bonus over more time so it works for the team and player. Then, as the contract gets to the end and the salary gets too big for the team to absorb, they can renegotiate if the team and player want to stay together. Otherwise, the player can reject the offer to renegotiate and go for another big deal elsewhere.

No one is snookering anyone here. Both sides know going in that it will work this way.

Now Owens is WAY too early in his deal to be asking for this. The Eagles paid a bigtime upfront chunk for his services for at least 3-4 years, and they are risking salary cap flexibility in the event he gets a career-ending injury early in the deal.

[bkrich83]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

So what do you propose happens to the teams who force players to renegotiate contracts that they signed?

First of all no one forces them to do anything. Second of all, if they renogotiate, they generally get a nice big lump sum of guaranteed money. I don't feel sorry for them in these instances.

[zappa55]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

Hey give this a read. Pat Kirwan has experience working in front offices so he knows the ins and outs.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8423804

(April 27, 2005) -- I have read just about enough about players who refuse to come in and work out in the offseason, about guys who get traded and want a new deal before they ever do anything for their new team (nice first impression), star players who feel they are grossly under paid even though they cashed checks for upward of $10 million dollars over the past year or so and teammates who support their teammates in their struggles for more money.

There's no reason to mention names at this point, but it's probably a good time to point out how things work. For the front-office executives and head coaches who have to deal with players that threaten not to show up for work and hang their dirty laundry out to the media because they want new contracts and more money, I have a few suggestions:

1. Minicamps (except for three days all offseason) and offseason workouts aren't mandatory, so don't take the bait from the players when they miss these sessions. Make it clear that re-negotiating contracts is just as voluntary as the workouts, and for every day they decide to volunteer to stay home, you will elect to 'volunteer' not to negotiate for a month. Has anyone reminded our young friends that there is only one NFL and if they don't play in this league, they don't play at all? Unless, of course, they want to find out what it feels like in a minor league.

2. For every player who stays out of practice, there is another player who is hungry and ready to seize the opportunity. We just saw 255 rookies get drafted, another 160 undrafted rookies will be signed and there are 150 guys over in NFL Europe developing their skills and maybe 50 tough young men in the Arena League and Canada who would do just about anything for an opportunity in the only high-paying football league in the world. Someone out there is a star waiting to be discovered. That's over 600 potential players being injected into the system in addition to the young developing athletes already on rosters.

3. Does any 5-foot-9 receiver sitting at home insisting he deserves more money or a running back who had one good season really think their team can't win without them? I say stop worrying about these kinds of players. And I don't care what wide receiver thinks he's indispensable. The fact is, the talent pool at that position never dries up and it's more about the quality of the quarterback who delivers the ball. Dan Marino made a lot of average receivers look pretty good and Tom Brady hasn't done a bad job of it either.

4. As for the players that use the favorite cry of "The clubs don't honor the contract, so why should we?" there are reasons teams fire players and don't stand by the length of the contract -- the length of the contract was never a real length of term and the player knew it all along. The club was trying to give the player a bigger signing bonus up front and, in agreement with the agent, extended the deal to amortize the bonus over a longer period of time. I always told the player when he signed what the logic was behind the deal and most executives do the same. It is amazing how many players and agents conveniently forget that when the player is cut. Front-office people probably need to go on record when a deal is done by saying something like, "We just signed Player X to a six-year deal but it really is a three-year deal in which we had to spread the big signing bonus out to fit under our salary cap. The player understands the structure."

5. To the teammates that feel they must support their holdout buddies by standing by them and never expressing their frustration that the team isn't getting better in the offseason, do me a favor: Call me when you get fired and those same guys send you a check to keep food on the table in your house. Trust me, it will never happen.

6. To the athletes who elect to stop team activities and somehow your story makes it to the media and it is splashed all over the Internet and print, make sure you have someone fully explain the possible negative effects to you as well as the possible positives. Sure, you may get a new deal and the disappearing act you pulled during the offseason will seem worth it. But maybe you will not get a new deal and just maybe the team decides to dump you just as soon as they find a capable replacement.

NFL coaches have learned two critical things in the past few years that help them deal with all the contract volatility that has arisen. Most of the 32 head coaches keep smiling and, when pressed by the media, don't show any emotion or dissatisfaction about their holdout player. The player should not misconstrue the public behavior their coach shows as a sign he understands you are worth more money -- he's trained to not make a bad story worse by reacting emotionally to it. Trust me, in a very short period of time behind closed doors with his coaching staff, he is going to focus on replacing you. That is the nature of the beast. The old saying "Out of sight, out of mind" eventually replaces the anxiety of "What will we do without him?" If you don't think that is true, there are veterans getting released by the day now as teams secured cheaper, young talent in the draft. And when June 1 comes along, there will be even more talented players on the market. There will be options and I doubt any player crying for a new contract truly understands the economic or talent pressure that is upon them.

Finally, every coach and front-office executive I know wants to win, and if they have a player on their team that can get them to that goal, they will pay them, as was seen when the Bengals paid Rudi Johnson and the Patriots redid Corey Dillon's deal this offseason. But please don't think your team is going to open up a can of worms by being forced into renegotiating because you think you're the one guy they can't live without. There are very few players that ever make it to that category. As one very good retired NFL player said to me this morning, "No one put a gun on to their head and made them sign the deal they have now. Don't ever let the player force the renegotiation."

Personally, I really want to see players get all they can while they're talented enough to play in the NFL, and since 1992, salaries paid to the players have gone from $1 billion to more than $3 billion today. Is it a perfect system? No, but it's pretty darn good and it's the only one in town.

[Alliball]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

I was wondering, because I don't think I read about it anywhere, but just how much of his $10 million signing bonus did Ryan Leaf give back to the Chargers? I think anyone with half a brain will catch my drift.

[PSU]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

First of all no one forces them to do anything. Second of all, if they renogotiate, they generally get a nice big lump sum of guaranteed money. I don't feel sorry for them in these instances.

exactly...i will never feel bad for them, they r already guaranteed and damn good amount, they dont need any sympathy and most of them r VERY greedy. they forget where they come from and how they got there, that just gets all thrown out the window to a lot of them. a lot of people in this world would die for this kind of money, and these athletes just worry bout themselves. not all but a lot of them do.

[jmood88]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

exactly...i will never feel bad for them, they r already guaranteed and damn good amount, they dont need any sympathy and most of them r VERY greedy. they forget where they come from and how they got there, that just gets all thrown out the window to a lot of them. a lot of people in this world would die for this kind of money, and these athletes just worry bout themselves. not all but a lot of them do.

Why shouldn't they worry about themselves? Do you think that the owners don't worry about themselves or the general managers or the coaches don't think about themselves?

[albsur2003]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

I hate holdouts but I see why the players choose to use them. If a guy is making under a mil and has like a MVP type season. It would be stupid for him to say "I will keep playing 800K because I have morals." Just like football is a business out to make money, these players are out to make money as well. Why should a player continue to play under a contract that doesn't reflect how important he is to the team? Especially in the NFL, when injuries are just one hit away. It's human nature to want what you feel you deserve, it's just magnified because of the amount of money. Real world example: Say I work for Intel and I am clearly an up and comer and have been leader on several projects but I am still binded by the original offer that I signed. Should I be happy with my current salary or should i threaten to walk to another competitor for more money in an attempt to get a deserved raise? Usually, a company like Intel would offer the raise before it got to that point. Football teams won't give you a raise when you clearly deserve it, they would wait until your contract expired if they had a say, so players HAVE to holdout to get what they deserve. Say you've had an MVP season with one year left on your contract and you don't worry about an extension because you feel it would be taken care of next year, and you get injured during training camp, not only would you lose your bargaining power, you would lose your status in free agency. Who is the ******* in that situation? The player who should have held out for a better contract. There's a big difference between 800K and 4Mil. This isn't a person being greedy, this is a person being practical. Baseball has arbitration at least, football doesn't.

[bkrich83]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

I hate holdouts but I see why the players choose to use them. If a guy is making under a mil and has like a MVP type season. It would be stupid for him to say "I will keep playing 800K because I have morals." Just like football is a business out to make money, these players are out to make money as well. Why should a player continue to play under a contract that doesn't reflect how important he is to the team? Especially in the NFL, when injuries are just one hit away. It's human nature to want what you feel you deserve, it's just magnified because of the amount of money. Real world example: Say I work for Intel and I am clearly an up and comer and have been leader on several projects but I am still binded by the original offer that I signed. Should I be happy with my current salary or should i threaten to walk to another competitor for more money in an attempt to get a deserved raise? Usually, a company like Intel would offer the raise before it got to that point. Football teams won't give you a raise when you clearly deserve it, they would wait until your contract expired if they had a say, so players HAVE to holdout to get what they deserve. Say you've had an MVP season with one year left on your contract and you don't worry about an extension because you feel it would be taken care of next year, and you get injured during training camp, not only would you lose your bargaining power, you would lose your status in free agency. Who is the ******* in that situation? The player who should have held out for a better contract. There's a big difference between 800K and 4Mil. This isn't a person being greedy, this is a person being practical. Baseball has arbitration at least, football doesn't.

That's not 100% true. Teams re-negotiate with players who are outperfoming their original contracts all of the time. The Chargers did it with Tomlinson just last year. Holding out is not neccesarily the right way to go about it.

It comes down to, do you put money over winning. The way I see it, if you perform and your team wins, the money will be there. Not to mention one good year, is hardly enough to justify holding out. There are other ways to go about getting a pay increase in the NFL.

[mickj]

Re: My solution to the "hold out" craze.

That's not 100% true. Teams re-negotiate with players who are outperfoming their original contracts all of the time. The Chargers did it with Tomlinson just last year. Holding out is not neccesarily the right way to go about it.

Probably not, but trying to get a player to take a pay cut by threatening to release them isn't the right way to go about negociating a cap friendly contract either. Neither is releasing a player just as he's about to get a roster bonus so they don't get that said bonus.

I don't have really all that much of a problem with any of the stuff NFL teams do to get out of contracts. Likewise I have no problems when players hold out for contracts that they feel better reflect their market value.

I think the way it works right now is perfect. Both players and teams have their own ways of getting out of bad contracts. Both sides can always renegociate. Failing that, teams can release players who are not earning their contract, and players can hold out for a better contract. Both methods are harsh and entail risks. But they both exist to provide balance between team and player relations, so one side does not gain too much leverage over the other.

It comes down to, do you put money over winning.

I care about my company succeeding. That doesn't mean I have to sit there and just let them exploit me by not paying me my what my value is. Especially if i can actually do something about it. Complaining that Walker is selfish is hypocritcal. We're all selfish beings. We care more about ourselves because no one is going to care about ourselves. No one is going to look out for Javon Walker other than Javon Walker.