Do Players Feel Different?

[LAfan1624]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

There is totally a difference. If you play a season long gm mode, youll notice the elite level guys are top of the points list, just like in real life. I score a lot of my goals with my star players. It may not feel like theres a difference, but youll see it in the numbers.

[Money99]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

There is totally a difference. If you play a season long gm mode, youll notice the elite level guys are top of the points list, just like in real life. I score a lot of my goals with my star players. It may not feel like theres a difference, but youll see it in the numbers.

Simming and playing are two different things though.
In past EA hockey games, too many times I didn't even notice who the CPU had on the ice because from their 1st line to 4th line, all of them could skate, dangle, snipe and sauce passes all over the ice.

I see that there is a noticeable difference when the user is controlling various players, but that's always been done pretty well in this series.
The main issue is that the CPU doesn't appear to be tied to attributes or the physics of the game.
It's like you're playing against the 1987 Soviet Five every shift.

I'm hoping that's not the case this year.

[AdamJones113]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

Simming and playing are two different things though.
In past EA hockey games, too many times I didn't even notice who the CPU had on the ice because from their 1st line to 4th line, all of them could skate, dangle, snipe and sauce passes all over the ice.

I see that there is a noticeable difference when the user is controlling various players, but that's always been done pretty well in this series.
The main issue is that the CPU doesn't appear to be tied to attributes or the physics of the game.
It's like you're playing against the 1987 Soviet Five every shift.

I'm hoping that's not the case this year.

As I've said elsewhere, things are a little better CPU-wise this year. Hitting is better in terms of player separation—I've only been hit hard by guys like PK Subban and other strong defenseman. Shooting, I haven't noticed much difference. Passing as a mechanic makes it tough for there to be much difference, although pass reception seems to be about right for a Patrick Kane vs. a Dale Weise. Skating, not too much yet.

[jyoung]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

Any player can snipe a goal one time.....like or not if you are in the NHL you are still pretty one of the best 500-600 hockey players in North America if not the World.

The snipes I posted aren't rare goals, though. They are the kinds of goals that you can repeat and score multiple times a game, using any player in your lineup.

Skaters with accuracy ratings in the 60s and 70s shouldn't be able to consistently snipe the top corner of the net against the best goalies in the game, on the hardest difficulty settings in the game. But that is how EA has chosen to make their NHL games for the past two generations of consoles.

If I'm controlling a third or fourth line player, and I'm facing Price, Quick, Schneider, et al., the game should be forcing me to at least aim for the five hole, or more realistically, shoot for a rebound/redirect if I want to consistently score with less-skilled players. The very thing that makes elite goal scorers like Ovechkin, Stamkos, et al. elite in real life is that they are able to consistently hit the top corners of the net against the world's best goaltenders. That is a rare talent in the NHL, not something that every single skater on a team's roster is capable of doing game in, game out.

[actionhank]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

There is totally a difference. If you play a season long gm mode, youll notice the elite level guys are top of the points list, just like in real life. I score a lot of my goals with my star players. It may not feel like theres a difference, but youll see it in the numbers.

I've always noticed that players seemed to have decent stats, but that was from games simmed by the computer. My guys had more realistic stats, but a lot of that was my use of them. I wasn't going out and trying to score with my 4th liners, though I feel pretty confident that I could have easily rotated my 4th line in the 1st lines place and done just as well.

Where I noticed it most was goalies. It didn't matter who I threw in net. Brian Elliott, Jake Allen, Hell, Binnington could come up, and my gameplay and settings didn't seem to matter much. They gave up equally easy saves, and made the same types of absurd ones. My PS3 died before I could test it out, but I was hoping to try and edit some rosters and change ratings to see if maybe there was a good way to figure out how the ratings affected the outcome of games.

The snipes I posted aren't rare goals, though. They are the kinds of goals that you can repeat and score multiple times a game, using any player in your lineup.

Skaters with accuracy ratings in the 60s and 70s shouldn't be able to consistently snipe the top corner of the net against the best goalies in the game, on the hardest difficulty settings in the game. But that is how EA has chosen to make their NHL games for the past two generations of consoles.

If I'm controlling a third or fourth line player, and I'm facing Price, Quick, Schneider, et al., the game should be forcing me to at least aim for the five hole, or more realistically, shoot for a rebound/redirect if I want to consistently score with less-skilled players. The very thing that makes elite goal scorers like Ovechkin, Stamkos, et al. elite in real life is that they are able to consistently hit the top corners of the net against the world's best goaltenders. That is a rare talent in the NHL, not something that every single skater on a team's roster is capable of doing game in, game out.

It would be great to see a visual representation of the player's accuracy. Say someone like Ryan Reaves would have a larger "cone" projecting from the stick. Kind of like an aiming crosshair in a FPS. The accuracy of the cone would change based on a number of things. His movement, pressure, balance, and his skills would all make the cone of accuracy expand. So, you could assume that the puck was going to go anywhere within that cone, with no certainty of where. If the cone when it got to the aimed part of the net (say he's aiming top-left) only covered maybe 1/4 of the net, while the other 3/4 were outside of the net, he would have a roughly 25% chance of putting the shot on net. He could still hit the crossbar, or the puck could get saved, but he would have a 75% chance of completely missing.
Conversely, someone like Ovechkin would have a much narrower cone. The cone would likely not spread as much over distance, and would be more centered on where the player was actually aiming. I just wish EA would break down how they work things behind the scenes. It's hard to want to suggest new idea or improvements for current ideas when we have no idea how it actually works. We don't even really know if the players shot is affected by defensive pressure, how quickly a player takes a shot (say someone getting a puck right off of a pass with a low one-timer rating, or someone who's been carrying the puck and had time to setup for the shot) or anything else.

I think more variables and attribute ratings could do a lot to make players play more like themselves. Someone like Backes is great on the powerplay in the sense that he's great at screening, deflecting, and occasionally ripping a clean shot past the goalie, but he's nowhere near someone like Stamkos in terms of being able to setup for one-timers. Having that difference in the way their attributes are handled would force you to change how you use those players to get the most out of them.

[RicoLaguno]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

I personally, havent seen much seperation between player skills, attributes and styles.....For that matter, teams either. They all seem to perform the same strategies when attacking the offensive zone.. It makes games kind of repetitive and boring and Im only a few games into Season mode with full control of all teams.

Im not really noticing a difference between the Flyers, Rangers, Penguins, Red Wings, Kings, etc, ect

If it werent for the different team jersey's ...I would feel that each game is a carbon copy of the previous. Its not very encouraging

I remember playing so much of 2K Hockey cause each of the teams played a little differently and players had attributes that demonstrated variety

[CupCrazyManiac]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

I personally, havent seen much seperation between player skills, attributes and styles.....For that matter, teams either. They all seem to perform the same strategies when attacking the offensive zone.. It makes games kind of repetitive and boring and Im only a few games into Season mode with full control of all teams.

Im not really noticing a difference between the Flyers, Rangers, Penguins, Red Wings, Kings, etc, ect

If it werent for the different team jersey's ...I would feel that each game is a carbon copy of the previous. Its not very encouraging

I remember playing so much of 2K Hockey cause each of the teams played a little differently and players had attributes that demonstrated variety

Yes agree! 2k hockey was great! And with best Goalies (2k8) ever!

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

I just did a test.

I skated from goal line to goal line with my fastest player and then my slowest player (interestingly there is only a 7 point attribute difference). I told xbox to record that then went to edit the clip to time it.

Here are the results. I tested with attribute effects at 5 and acceleration at 0 and game speed at 2. I tried other slider settings, and little difference.

No acceleration
Crosby: 6.9 seconds
Lovejoy: 7.1 seconds

Acceleration:
Crosby: 6.08 seconds
Lovejoy: 6.70 seconds.


TLDR: In terms of speed, there is barely any difference.

Ive just did one more test, at the logical extreme. I edited Crosby's speed and acceleration up to 99 and Lovejoy's down to 36 (the lowest possible) and did goaline to goal line timed skates with the first slider set. I dont know exact times, but these seem close to the mark.

No acceleration
Super fast Crosby: 6.06 seconds
Super slow Lovejoy: 8.94 seconds


Acceleration
Super fast Crosby: 5.88 seconds
Super slow Lovejoy: 8.13 seconds

[LAfan1624]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

I just did a test.

I skated from goal line to goal line with my fastest player and then my slowest player (interestingly there is only a 7 point attribute difference). I told xbox to record that then went to edit the clip to time it.

Here are the results. I tested with attribute effects at 5 and acceleration at 0 and game speed at 2. I tried other slider settings, and little difference.

No acceleration
Crosby: 6.9 seconds
Lovejoy: 7.1 seconds

Acceleration:
Crosby: 6.08 seconds
Lovejoy: 6.70 seconds.


TLDR: In terms of speed, there is barely any difference.

Ive just did one more test, at the logical extreme. I edited Crosby's speed and acceleration up to 99 and Lovejoy's down to 36 (the lowest possible) and did goaline to goal line timed skates with the first slider set. I dont know exact times, but these seem close to the mark.

No acceleration
Super fast Crosby: 6.06 seconds
Super slow Lovejoy: 8.94 seconds


Acceleration
Super fast Crosby: 5.88 seconds
Super slow Lovejoy: 8.13 seconds

The speed is definitely something that doesnt differentiate from one player to another, in most cases. I think the differences come in the shots you take and how successful you are at hitting goals with different skaters. Take the same shot with Lovejoy as you would with Crosby, Crosby's will go in way more often.

[Fiddy]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

Maybe the roster buds can come up with a speed chart for the entire league. That way it will be an easy manual edit for all of us and to see some nice player separation during games.

[StrongIsland666]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

Maybe the roster buds can come up with a speed chart for the entire league. That way it will be an easy manual edit for all of us and to see some nice player separation during games.

It's just a shame that we would even need to be doing this esp in 2015

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

In terms of establishing a baseline, I think a typical big slow defender feels about right at speed of 45-50 with acceleration at the lowest (36).

Dropping speed by 5-10 points makes no difference.

[jake19ny]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

Not that we need an example of how bad the player seperation is but look at my goal scorers so far in a season and the line they are on. I play as the Rangers.
Jesper Fast 4 goals 4th line
J.T. Miller 4 goals 3rd line
Dominic Moore 3 goals 4th line
Jarod Stoll 2 goals 3rd line
Viktor Stalberg 2 goals 4th line
Rick Nash 1 goal 1st line
Matt Zuccerello 1 goal 1st line
Kevin Hayes 1 goal 2nd line

I actually feel like my 3rd and 4th are way more offensively dominant than my 1st and 2nd line while playing. Ugh

UPDATE: played another game and won 6-3
J.T. Miller hat trick for 7 goals on the season
Jesper Fast 1 goal for 5 on season
Jarod Stoll 1 goal for 3 on the season
Derek Stepan 1 for his first goal
So 24 goals scored on the season
4th line 12 goals
3rd line 8 goals
2nd line 2 goals
1st line 2 goals

[PittPens1787]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

So, this one confuses me? Most of the more recognized slider sets recommend 5 or 6 to enhance a difference between players, so not all players mesh together. And, now you're saying at 3, they are more apt to play like their rating and notice a difference between a 78 and a 85.

Also, if you go to 3 on that, will the goalies become easier to score on? Because right now with it set to 6 it feels pretty good trying to score. Its challenging but I can still have a game when I explode for 5 or 6 goals. But, I also have been shutout.

If anyone has additional information regarding the Attribute Effects slider, Id be curious to hear it. Im really looking for someone that has some insight on it because I am hearing alot of contradictory opinions. And, being the feel of players being closer than Id like already, Id really like to discern whats the best way to bet skaters to perform as close to their attributes as possible.

Thread for those interested here: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ts-slider.html

[BleacherCreature]

Re: Do Players Feel Different?

Not that we need an example of how bad the player seperation is but look at my goal scorers so far in a season and the line they are on. I play as the Rangers.
Jesper Fast 4 goals 4th line
J.T. Miller 4 goals 3rd line
Dominic Moore 3 goals 4th line
Jarod Stoll 2 goals 3rd line
Viktor Stalberg 2 goals 4th line
Rick Nash 1 goal 1st line
Matt Zuccerello 1 goal 1st line
Kevin Hayes 1 goal 2nd line

I actually feel like my 3rd and 4th are way more offensively dominant than my 1st and 2nd line while playing. Ugh

One goal for Nash. You sure you're not in playoff mode?