NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements & Much More - Patch Notes

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  • Will I Am
    Pro
    • Nov 2013
    • 931

    #76
    Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

    Originally posted by VeNOM3099
    I'm a hockey fan too. Just because you have no "complaints" doesn't make my, or the thousands of others who bought this game any less valid.

    Did you also know that I played and coached competition level hockey? Does that then make my complaints more or less valid than yours, or yours IRRELEVANT as you seem to imply from those that have them?

    No. We see the game how we want to see it.

    To me, the fact that your AI teammates are lacking is a BIG problem. Hockey is a flowing sport and when my left winger doesn't skate over to the left wing to fill up the void when it's there is a huge complaint. When I play BaP as a goalie, and my AI teammates are constantly running back into their zone with the puck instead of passing it out to the waiting C or W at the red line, then get pushed off the puck and give up a 2 on zero chance to score for the opponent, it's a big deal.

    At the end of the day, it means maybe the game is suited to casuals more than the hardcore. And that shouldn't be the case. The game should allow all levels to be happy playing it. Maybe today you don't care that much about hockey. But eventually you might want to learn more. And when you'll compare the real product to what we have... You'll complain??


    That's why people complain. That's why I complain. Not because I don't want people to buy the game. But because I want the game to be better so EVERYONE can play it with some form of satisfaction rather than disappointment.
    I guess I just take it for what it's worth, a video game. As far as my teammates being out of position most of that is on me, as I said I switch control to the closest all the time so I get running around to a certain degree.
    Also there isn't one single sports game out there that plays like the real deal either, at least not that I'm aware of. Maybe it's just not as easy as you think it is to have a video sport be 100% accurate.

    Comment

    • The EVHL
      Pro
      • Nov 2014
      • 802

      #77
      Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

      Originally posted by Will I Am
      I guess I just take it for what it's worth, a video game. As far as my teammates being out of position most of that is on me, as I said I switch control to the closest all the time so I get running around to a certain degree.
      Also there isn't one single sports game out there that plays like the real deal either, at least not that I'm aware of. Maybe it's just not as easy as you think it is to have a video sport be 100% accurate.
      I think you're selling yourself short if you believe most of your AI positioning problems are on you, because the human's AI teammates might be some of the most useless AI teammates ever seen outside of FIFA's who also don't know how to pressure a ball carrier or execute a trap the human player has setup. At least they have 2nd man press though...

      I also don't care that you enjoy the game, it doesn't bother me, I'm envious really. My post wasn't to say nobody should enjoy the game, the point was that the AI in this game haven't progressed past an early 2000's level where we were all content with shot animations looking better every year and had no time to nitpick the AI. These "complaints" are valid imo and I don't mean to come at anyone who likes the game, I just am also defending the constant complaints as the NHL team hasn't given us much of anything in the last 10 years when it comes to offline on-ice experience.

      And as far as "nitpicking" goes, the AI problems aren't small. They aren't in a spot where they are 95% realistic and I'm asking for 100% realism, it's not even close. I'm by no means asking for the NHL team to deliver an AI performance the gaming industry has never seen before, that would be foolish. But would adding in real forechecking strategies that actually make sense and then having the AI statically execute said forehecks be asking for 100% realism? IMO, no. They already do half-heartedly execute their nonsensical, overly vague forechecks, I'm asking for EA to update those at least once a decade, you know? How about when I set my team to "full attack" my FC/NZ to "full forecheck" and my D to "full pinch" that they stop worrying about guys flying the NZ and simply just pinch and worry about offense? Seems like a simple enough fix, no?

      I've posted this here before, but "1-2-2 Aggressive" means nothing regardless of the description, because all forechecks start with a force side. When you coach hockey, you outline whether we're forcing strong or weak for the period, the shift, the game, whatever, and that greatly impacts how a 1-2-2 is executed. These strategies they have in the game are useless essentially. The logic used to determine to abandon the FC and go to the trap seems arbitrary/nonsensical. So, these aren't "dynamic" qualities like play recognition I'm asking for, these are 1. asking for the AI to simply adhere to the pressure levels already in the game, and 2. to update the static strategies in the game. Nothing world-breaking here, nothing we haven't seen before, I just want a pressure setting that says "players are only thinking about offense" to actually mean that and not retreat to the red line as the strong-side D.

      Then we get into the zone and things get WORSE. Overload, Crash the Net, and Behind the Net have been the same three options since Lindros graced the cover of NHL 99. Yes, NHL 99 offered just as many in-zone strategies as NHL 22. And "crash the net" that sees your wings out by the boards, jostling a defender 10 feet o the side of the net, and standing in the high slot on their backhands is something we should expect to see? Of course not, but that's what we get. An "overload" that overloads a side of the ice then nobody makes a cut towards the slot? What is that lol? I'm glad we have 3 guys standing on the wall, one on the weakside of the slot standing still on his backhand, and one low on the strong side 3-5 feet towards the side of the net, great strategy! Can't believe nothing is opening up!

      How about special teams? "Shooting" powerplay that sees no screens and a static box of 4 equally spaced out 50-60 feet apart with no puck support, awesome! The "umbrella" that has no set positions and sees the entire line of guys scramble to "cover" for each other for 2 straight minutes which ends up looking like someone just flushed a toilet! Useful! Then the "overload" is the same 5v5 overload where we can really outnumber a team on the wall and never threaten the slot or anything because we're all standing still! Sweet! Maybe implement the 1-3-1 that's universally used a the NHL level now? Nah...

      So, these are all "static" asks, you know? Don't have the AI opponent blatantly cheat, update the FC options to thigs that make sense, have the AI respect the pressure settings, all pretty straightforward asks when we're talking about a span of 10+ years (22 in the case of in-zone option updates) no? Not expecting the AI to have a brain like Crosby, I just want them to skate at a loose puck if it's there, be programmed to collapse correctly, and always pinch when I tell them to always pinch.

      Like I said, the AI are on-par with a senior-level college game design project that was built in 9 months. This is a $70 game from a AAA company, I think they can afford a month or two once a decade to update some of these things.
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      Comment

      • VeNOM3099
        Rookie
        • Apr 2017
        • 371

        #78
        Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

        Originally posted by Will I Am
        I guess I just take it for what it's worth, a video game. As far as my teammates being out of position most of that is on me, as I said I switch control to the closest all the time so I get running around to a certain degree.
        Also there isn't one single sports game out there that plays like the real deal either, at least not that I'm aware of. Maybe it's just not as easy as you think it is to have a video sport be 100% accurate.
        #1. Like I said, it depends on the person playing it. Maybe you're not as "hardcore" as I am. And that's fine. It doesn't mean you can't like or play the game. Plenty of people bought and played Sonic 06 back in the day. Were they allowed to like it? Yes. Does that mean the game is "good"... wellllllllllll.

        #2. It's NOT a simple video game. Final Fantasy is a video game. Pac Man is a video game. Games like NHL or NBA or even Formula One they are built on existing sports. You can't take liberties with something that exists. Maybe if the game was called EA Pro Hockey featuring the NHL and NHLPA players, we'd be less hard on them. But they claim their game is the real thing. It's not. So your reasoning is not sound. It's something one would say to make themselves feel better about their purchase. Again, taking my Sonic example above. I could say the game is technically a Sonic game and I like Sonic. But I couldn't say the game is good because I like it.

        #3. Is there a game that's 100% like the real thing? No. However, there are games that are much closer to the real thing than NHL. Play NBA 2K or PES soccer or F1 2021. That's what a simulation is supposed to be: it simulates real life. EA's NHL doesn't simulate anything. That's a problem to me and many others. Hence the complaints.
        Last edited by VeNOM3099; 11-10-2021, 04:59 PM.
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        • MJ200
          Rookie
          • Jul 2019
          • 111

          #79
          Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

          Originally posted by HipNotiiC_x
          I just played a test build of an up and coming indie hockey game, and their AI's foundation is better than EA's already. It's a very early build, but it's proven to me that EA doesn't care or lacks the talent to program more useful AI into the game, and I genuinely don't know which one it is considering how long it's been since there's been a real focus on improving the Ai and the offline on-ice gameplay as a whole.

          Game is in a really sad state if you are passionate about hockey and want to recreate some sort of resemblance of the real sport in this game. AI players constantly standing around momentum-less, human AI teammates don't have any interest in the puck, they'll skate away from a rebound to go "cover" for the dman who took one step in to take a shot rather than simply going for the puck/rebound, and then you get to watch your AI opponent send 2-3 guys to pressure you on the wall with zero hesitation, yet they show absolutely no panic or care if you beat said pressure and start walking down the middle of the slot.

          When I'm leading a rush, my AI constantly skate half speed, never cut, can't even fill lanes properly. The CPU also just kind of slowly glides back into the zone, no DSS, no probing sticks, just casual backskating until you get in-range for a check, then they'll go for some terrible angle hit that you'll skate by and that's the extent of the rush.

          Goalies still don't require footplanting to move, CPU AI still gets to ignore physics and/or cut stumble animations short when it's convenient, they pick passes off they never saw, they still have zero idea on what to do if you go around the net and same with your AI teammates who will all kind of 100-yard stare while standing still as you wheel around the net, bring it high, and can continue this pattern almost infinitely as the other 9 guys will all just kind of stand still and be content with doing absolutely nothing.

          Then presentation this year is fun am I right? Talking about x-factors as if they're real, still no props (they said they had big plans for these in NHL 16, remember?), no light shows, crowd goes silent 3 seconds after a goal, goal horns still more like white noise, same terrible scorebug, still can't get a playoff series indicator, and colors this year look washed out/faded...idk they just are not great.

          This is a $70 product, same as any story-driven game with actual care and polish. I don't think "complaining" about AI that act and play like a college program senior project should be considered "complaining" lol. AI that are semi-engaged, semi-even, and semi-useful should be the least we expect from a AAA product, especially since they're given massive amount of videos and feedback on their official forums every single year by people who care and take the time to do such things.

          There's just no reason to believe in this team/series anymore if you're looking for anything more than a pretty-skinned NHL 94. All of the features and mechanics they have are 100% for show. Game is still a simple, mindless, low-effort sports arcade game to have casual fun with like it was in the 90's.
          whats the game??
          is it the tape to tape game?

          Comment

          • VeNOM3099
            Rookie
            • Apr 2017
            • 371

            #80
            Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

            Originally posted by MJ200
            whats the game??
            is it the tape to tape game?
            It's funny that HipNotiiC_x said that NHL 22 (and prior versions) have mostly been a 70$ version of NHL 94.

            Go play 94 (or the Classic version that came with NHL 21) and it's virtually the same game. Except one is 3D and the other is 2D. Sorry, but that's not good enough. It's 2021 and we have super computers (basically) as consoles. This is supposedly a AAA game and we're being charged as such. You telling me you CAN'T figure how to make Artificial Intelligence be more intelligent than the one 30 years ago when other companies, with less money I might add, have figured it out???

            C'mon EA...

            You wanna charge us 120$ for your "AAA" game, then make a AAA game. Not something that crashes every 2 seconds. Not one where your CPU teammates are as useless as posts. Not one with so many issues it makes Sonic Boom look like a GOTY contender.
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            • The EVHL
              Pro
              • Nov 2014
              • 802

              #81
              Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

              Originally posted by VeNOM3099
              It's funny that HipNotiiC_x said that NHL 22 (and prior versions) have mostly been a 70$ version of NHL 94.

              Go play 94 (or the Classic version that came with NHL 21) and it's virtually the same game. Except one is 3D and the other is 2D. Sorry, but that's not good enough. It's 2021 and we have super computers (basically) as consoles. This is supposedly a AAA game and we're being charged as such. You telling me you CAN'T figure how to make Artificial Intelligence be more intelligent than the one 30 years ago when other companies, with less money I might add, have figured it out???

              C'mon EA...

              You wanna charge us 120$ for your "AAA" game, then make a AAA game. Not something that crashes every 2 seconds. Not one where your CPU teammates are as useless as posts. Not one with so many issues it makes Sonic Boom look like a GOTY contender.
              I guess the Michigan and Halloween WoC gear are higher priorities than having AI not stand still and repeat the same tired patterns for over a decade...
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              • SkeeLo15
                Rookie
                • Sep 2016
                • 31

                #82
                Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                Can’t sum it up much better than this. Implementing all of this and it actually work would make the human vs AI experience 100x better. Not saying this is necessary but would love to see a detailed breakdown from you of all aspects of the game that can be improved like this

                Originally posted by HipNotiiC_x
                I think you're selling yourself short if you believe most of your AI positioning problems are on you, because the human's AI teammates might be some of the most useless AI teammates ever seen outside of FIFA's who also don't know how to pressure a ball carrier or execute a trap the human player has setup. At least they have 2nd man press though...

                I also don't care that you enjoy the game, it doesn't bother me, I'm envious really. My post wasn't to say nobody should enjoy the game, the point was that the AI in this game haven't progressed past an early 2000's level where we were all content with shot animations looking better every year and had no time to nitpick the AI. These "complaints" are valid imo and I don't mean to come at anyone who likes the game, I just am also defending the constant complaints as the NHL team hasn't given us much of anything in the last 10 years when it comes to offline on-ice experience.

                And as far as "nitpicking" goes, the AI problems aren't small. They aren't in a spot where they are 95% realistic and I'm asking for 100% realism, it's not even close. I'm by no means asking for the NHL team to deliver an AI performance the gaming industry has never seen before, that would be foolish. But would adding in real forechecking strategies that actually make sense and then having the AI statically execute said forehecks be asking for 100% realism? IMO, no. They already do half-heartedly execute their nonsensical, overly vague forechecks, I'm asking for EA to update those at least once a decade, you know? How about when I set my team to "full attack" my FC/NZ to "full forecheck" and my D to "full pinch" that they stop worrying about guys flying the NZ and simply just pinch and worry about offense? Seems like a simple enough fix, no?

                I've posted this here before, but "1-2-2 Aggressive" means nothing regardless of the description, because all forechecks start with a force side. When you coach hockey, you outline whether we're forcing strong or weak for the period, the shift, the game, whatever, and that greatly impacts how a 1-2-2 is executed. These strategies they have in the game are useless essentially. The logic used to determine to abandon the FC and go to the trap seems arbitrary/nonsensical. So, these aren't "dynamic" qualities like play recognition I'm asking for, these are 1. asking for the AI to simply adhere to the pressure levels already in the game, and 2. to update the static strategies in the game. Nothing world-breaking here, nothing we haven't seen before, I just want a pressure setting that says "players are only thinking about offense" to actually mean that and not retreat to the red line as the strong-side D.

                Then we get into the zone and things get WORSE. Overload, Crash the Net, and Behind the Net have been the same three options since Lindros graced the cover of NHL 99. Yes, NHL 99 offered just as many in-zone strategies as NHL 22. And "crash the net" that sees your wings out by the boards, jostling a defender 10 feet o the side of the net, and standing in the high slot on their backhands is something we should expect to see? Of course not, but that's what we get. An "overload" that overloads a side of the ice then nobody makes a cut towards the slot? What is that lol? I'm glad we have 3 guys standing on the wall, one on the weakside of the slot standing still on his backhand, and one low on the strong side 3-5 feet towards the side of the net, great strategy! Can't believe nothing is opening up!

                How about special teams? "Shooting" powerplay that sees no screens and a static box of 4 equally spaced out 50-60 feet apart with no puck support, awesome! The "umbrella" that has no set positions and sees the entire line of guys scramble to "cover" for each other for 2 straight minutes which ends up looking like someone just flushed a toilet! Useful! Then the "overload" is the same 5v5 overload where we can really outnumber a team on the wall and never threaten the slot or anything because we're all standing still! Sweet! Maybe implement the 1-3-1 that's universally used a the NHL level now? Nah...

                So, these are all "static" asks, you know? Don't have the AI opponent blatantly cheat, update the FC options to thigs that make sense, have the AI respect the pressure settings, all pretty straightforward asks when we're talking about a span of 10+ years (22 in the case of in-zone option updates) no? Not expecting the AI to have a brain like Crosby, I just want them to skate at a loose puck if it's there, be programmed to collapse correctly, and always pinch when I tell them to always pinch.

                Like I said, the AI are on-par with a senior-level college game design project that was built in 9 months. This is a $70 game from a AAA company, I think they can afford a month or two once a decade to update some of these things.

                Comment

                • The EVHL
                  Pro
                  • Nov 2014
                  • 802

                  #83
                  Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                  Originally posted by SkeeLo15
                  Can’t sum it up much better than this. Implementing all of this and it actually work would make the human vs AI experience 100x better. Not saying this is necessary but would love to see a detailed breakdown from you of all aspects of the game that can be improved like this
                  Thanks man. I do like breaking this game down because I care, I want it to be better for all. Posts like this make me continue doing things like this haha. I certainly am not trying to be a grumpy guy, these critical posts are to highlight how much us offliners have been neglected and that we should all be opening eyes and realizing this because it truly is super lame.
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                  • MizzouRah
                    All Star
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 8539

                    #84
                    Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                    Originally posted by HipNotiiC_x
                    Thanks man. I do like breaking this game down because I care, I want it to be better for all. Posts like this make me continue doing things like this haha. I certainly am not trying to be a grumpy guy, these critical posts are to highlight how much us offliners have been neglected and that we should all be opening eyes and realizing this because it truly is super lame.
                    Unfortunately it's the same in Madden. It's more of casual simulation then a true simulation of the sport. I've just accepted it but I appreciate those like you who are passionate and put it out there on what needs improvement.

                    Comment

                    • millwalldavey
                      Rookie
                      • Oct 2021
                      • 29

                      #85
                      Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                      I love playing dynasty and thus far, I cannot play it with a created team. I don’t really have any other complaints than this… this is just what I enjoy. So far, it’s a waste of $60.

                      Comment

                      • The EVHL
                        Pro
                        • Nov 2014
                        • 802

                        #86
                        Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                        Originally posted by MizzouRah
                        Unfortunately it's the same in Madden. It's more of casual simulation then a true simulation of the sport. I've just accepted it but I appreciate those like you who are passionate and put it out there on what needs improvement.
                        Yeah exactly, I really do like madden because I just don't know enough. I know guys like you put a lot effort in over there and I personally use your sliders for Madden so great work! I appreciate the kind words as well!
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                        • CujoMatty
                          Member of Rush Nation
                          • Oct 2007
                          • 5445

                          #87
                          Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                          Originally posted by millwalldavey
                          I love playing dynasty and thus far, I cannot play it with a created team. I don’t really have any other complaints than this… this is just what I enjoy. So far, it’s a waste of $60.
                          Just curious. Why can't you play dynasty with a created team?
                          By dynasty do you mean franchise? I'm playing franchise with a created team.
                          2016 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
                          2018 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
                          2019 CEBL Champion Saskatchewan Rattlers

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                          • The EVHL
                            Pro
                            • Nov 2014
                            • 802

                            #88
                            Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                            Originally posted by CujoMatty
                            Just curious. Why can't you play dynasty with a created team?
                            By dynasty do you mean franchise? I'm playing franchise with a created team.
                            I think old-gen created teams are experiencing a glitch where numbers aren't appearing on the jerseys, so it might not be that he literally can't play, but without those numbers it makes it a pretty big immersion-breaker.

                            That's my guess.
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                            • millwalldavey
                              Rookie
                              • Oct 2021
                              • 29

                              #89
                              Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                              Originally posted by HipNotiiC_x
                              I think old-gen created teams are experiencing a glitch where numbers aren't appearing on the jerseys, so it might not be that he literally can't play, but without those numbers it makes it a pretty big immersion-breaker.

                              That's my guess.
                              Good guess! I’m not in it for any other modes.

                              Comment

                              • CujoMatty
                                Member of Rush Nation
                                • Oct 2007
                                • 5445

                                #90
                                Re: NHL 22 Patch Available - Includes Player Likeness Updates, Gameplay Improvements

                                Originally posted by millwalldavey
                                Good guess! I’m not in it for any other modes.
                                Ah man that sucks. That would def bum me out.
                                2016 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
                                2018 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
                                2019 CEBL Champion Saskatchewan Rattlers

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