How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Package

[SpectralThundr]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

2K3 still had the best AI I've ever seen in a game. It also was able to capture different player styles better than any game I've played.

I echo yours and Fiddy's thoughts, Pezell04x.
While I've enjoyed NHL14, the entire gameplay engine and AI needs a complete overhaul.
Seeing a big difference in player and team styles is absolutely necessary. Otherwise, next-gen NHL games will eventually feel the same as last-gen.
I'm very excited for NHL15 news and I hope it's the game we've been waiting for.
But if we continue to see 4th liners doing the same things as 1st liners, offline gamers like me will lose interest quickly - again.

While I agree player separation and teams playing differently certainly needs to be addressed on this new gen of consoles, could you elaborate on what you mean by the entire gameplay engine needs overhauling? I think the skating engine in 14 was absolutely fantastic, being able to pivot finally in a hockey game and have it be completely fluid and realistic in that players could not go full speed while dangling through traffic without high chance of losing the puck. I though that aspect was really well done and I'd hate to see that get thrown out the window.

[Money99]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

While I agree player separation and teams playing differently certainly needs to be addressed on this new gen of consoles, could you elaborate on what you mean by the entire gameplay engine needs overhauling? I think the skating engine in 14 was absolutely fantastic, being able to pivot finally in a hockey game and have it be completely fluid and realistic in that players could not go full speed while dangling through traffic without high chance of losing the puck. I though that aspect was really well done and I'd hate to see that get thrown out the window.

The skating is a lot better and I thoroughly enjoyed it in NHL14.
But here are the things needed to make it more realistic (please excuse the disjointed list. Just tossing them out there as the come to mind):

1. Need a 'juke' or side-step movement. Quickness and effectiveness of this move is based on skaters quickness and agility ratings.
2. Teammate defensive AI has to be much better. Play with player lock and notice how your teammates will basically just stare at their man. They barely even poke-check.
3. Teammates getting open. In 14 there are still way too many times where I'm leading a 2-on-1 and they do something dumb like skate behind me or tail away from the net.
4. Stick handling while skating at full speed. The best players can do it, but in NHL14, as soon as you stick handle, you slow down.
5. Player types. It was done extremely well in NHL07. Snipers sniped and danglers dangled.
One of the things I adored about 07 was that if the pass wasn't perfect for a one-timer, the receiver couldn't get off a good shot, had to readjust to the poor pass and then got off a weak shot, or outright missed the shot.
So you really wanted to make sure your playmakers had the puck so one-timers were easier to setup.
For some reason they changed all this in NHL08 to the point where it didn't matter who passed, who shot, or how good or bad the pass was. It always resulted in a hard, accurate one-timer.
6. The CPU is always a perfect defender. Whether EA believes it or not, not every NHLer is great in his own end. Yet in NHL14, every skater will hound you, steal passes and knock pucks loose regardless of their ratings (this goes back to needing more player separation).
7. Pre-cognizant abilities of CPU. Ever notice how if a pass is deflected it always goes directly on the CPU's stick? Me thinks this is yet another 'boost' the CPU gets in order to be more competitive.

Those are just a few.
For the most part, EA does a pretty good job of showing individual skills. But when you pull back from the action, the actual flow of the game needs to be much better.
It should be harder getting through the neutral zone, players skills and one-ice personalities need to be separated a LOT, LOT more.
I should never, EVER, see George Parros complete a perfect, no-look, one-timer, behind-the-back pass to an open teammate. And yet, it happens all the time under the current EA engine.

I think once teams and players start playing like their real selves, then the game will feel more organic and different.
But as it is, it really doesn't matter if you play a game against the Isles, Oilers, Bruins or Wild.
And every player might as well be Jonathan Toews.

[SpectralThundr]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

The skating is a lot better and I thoroughly enjoyed it in NHL14.
But here are the things needed to make it more realistic (please excuse the disjointed list. Just tossing them out there as the come to mind):

1. Need a 'juke' or side-step movement. Quickness and effectiveness of this move is based on skaters quickness and agility ratings.
2. Teammate defensive AI has to be much better. Play with player lock and notice how your teammates will basically just stare at their man. They barely even poke-check.
3. Teammates getting open. In 14 there are still way too many times where I'm leading a 2-on-1 and they do something dumb like skate behind me or tail away from the net.
4. Stick handling while skating at full speed. The best players can do it, but in NHL14, as soon as you stick handle, you slow down.
5. Player types. It was done extremely well in NHL07. Snipers sniped and danglers dangled.
One of the things I adored about 07 was that if the pass wasn't perfect for a one-timer, the receiver couldn't get off a good shot, had to readjust to the poor pass and then got off a weak shot, or outright missed the shot.
So you really wanted to make sure your playmakers had the puck so one-timers were easier to setup.
For some reason they changed all this in NHL08 to the point where it didn't matter who passed, who shot, or how good or bad the pass was. It always resulted in a hard, accurate one-timer.
6. The CPU is always a perfect defender. Whether EA believes it or not, not every NHLer is great in his own end. Yet in NHL14, every skater will hound you, steal passes and knock pucks loose regardless of their ratings (this goes back to needing more player separation).
7. Pre-cognizant abilities of CPU. Ever notice how if a pass is deflected it always goes directly on the CPU's stick? Me thinks this is yet another 'boost' the CPU gets in order to be more competitive.

Those are just a few.
For the most part, EA does a pretty good job of showing individual skills. But when you pull back from the action, the actual flow of the game needs to be much better.
It should be harder getting through the neutral zone, players skills and one-ice personalities need to be separated a LOT, LOT more.
I should never, EVER, see George Parros complete a perfect, no-look, one-timer, behind-the-back pass to an open teammate. And yet, it happens all the time under the current EA engine.

I think once teams and players start playing like their real selves, then the game will feel more organic and different.
But as it is, it really doesn't matter if you play a game against the Isles, Oilers, Bruins or Wild.
And every player might as well be Jonathan Toews.

They have a juke, already on the right stick, actually there's a ton of different ones you can do.

The rest of your points all are related to AI which I agree needs to be better going forward. I feel that if they would just allow the attributes effect slider to be more of a factor on player behavior it would resolve a lot of the gripes people have in regards to the AI.

While I don't personally think it's as bad as people try to say it is with the Attributes slider set in the middle (why the middle I have no idea, EA should really explain how the various sliders work in more detail) the game on the whole certainly could use more differentiation between star players and 4th liners.

I think the core gameplay itself though is extremely solid, I don't quite have the issues pulling the CPU out of position either but then again I cycle and set up more often than trying to shoot on the rush.

[Money99]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

They have a juke, already on the right stick, actually there's a ton of different ones you can do.

The rest of your points all are related to AI which I agree needs to be better going forward. I feel that if they would just allow the attributes effect slider to be more of a factor on player behavior it would resolve a lot of the gripes people have in regards to the AI.

While I don't personally think it's as bad as people try to say it is with the Attributes slider set in the middle (why the middle I have no idea, EA should really explain how the various sliders work in more detail) the game on the whole certainly could use more differentiation between star players and 4th liners.

I think the core gameplay itself though is extremely solid, I don't quite have the issues pulling the CPU out of position either but then again I cycle and set up more often than trying to shoot on the rush.

I agree, but aren't gameplay and AI attached at the hip?
If the AI is dumb, the gameplay suffers. Just like if the physics and mechanics are poor, but AI is awesome, again, the gameplay suffers.

In that regard, the gameplay needs a LOT of work.

I may also be in the minority (by a large margin I presume), but I've kind of cooled on the skillstick. I think it's taken away from the overall gameplay.
If someone is great with the stick, then everyone is a superstar on the ice.
But if you're bad with the controls, every player turns into a grunt.

I'm a terrible gamer. Because of this, when I play NHL14, I never feel like I'm awesome when controlling allstars. Datsyuk, Kane or Crosby always resemble a 4th liner when I'm controlling them.
Meanwhile, the CPU is doing outrageous things with scrubs.

In previous hockey titles, the attributes had more to do with how players felt and reacted.
So even poor gamers like me, could make Sakic play like Sakic. In fact, it helped exaggerate the difference in players even more.
That's why I kind of hope they tone down the skill stick for NHL15 and make attributes the primary catalyst in determining whether or not you'll thread a pass, score a goal, or deke the jockstrap off a dman.
I felt NHL2k2 and 2k3 did this very well.

[Ziostilon]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

Will this new presentation have the ability to record an entire game.
And then let you review the video, choose what you want saved, and then dump the rest

Right now you only get the highlights at the end of the game, not the entirety of the game to choose from

[drog1602]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

I sure hope its better than the revamped live the life mode! We don't need anymore overlays and text boxes.

[bwiggy33]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

I agree, but aren't gameplay and AI attached at the hip?
If the AI is dumb, the gameplay suffers. Just like if the physics and mechanics are poor, but AI is awesome, again, the gameplay suffers.

In that regard, the gameplay needs a LOT of work.

I may also be in the minority (by a large margin I presume), but I've kind of cooled on the skillstick. I think it's taken away from the overall gameplay.
If someone is great with the stick, then everyone is a superstar on the ice.
But if you're bad with the controls, every player turns into a grunt.

I'm a terrible gamer. Because of this, when I play NHL14, I never feel like I'm awesome when controlling allstars. Datsyuk, Kane or Crosby always resemble a 4th liner when I'm controlling them.
Meanwhile, the CPU is doing outrageous things with scrubs.

In previous hockey titles, the attributes had more to do with how players felt and reacted.
So even poor gamers like me, could make Sakic play like Sakic. In fact, it helped exaggerate the difference in players even more.
That's why I kind of hope they tone down the skill stick for NHL15 and make attributes the primary catalyst in determining whether or not you'll thread a pass, score a goal, or deke the jockstrap off a dman.
I felt NHL2k2 and 2k3 did this very well.

I totally agree with you. IMO the skill stick brings the realism of the game down quite a bit. Once the luster of the controls wore off, I started noticing how unrealistic it was. It's probably the most innovative controls we've ever seen in a sports franchise and made the game fun as all heck. Hell after EA introduced it in 07 it seemed like every game tried copying or coming up with their own sort of skill stick. However when you break it down the skill stick is pretty bad when you compare it to real stick handling or puck control. There's absolutely no question it can be made more realistic and they don't even having to change the control scheme. It's just tuning how far a guy can reach with the puck, the speed of back and forth stick handling, and switching up the moves.


The stick reach of the players is just way too far. You rarely ever see players stick handle with the puck way outside of their body like that. Most players keep the puck within themselves (so they can keep skating full stride) and make a move off of that. That's how you keep control. Next is the moves they have in the game. I think they need to switch them up. Players jumping over other players while keeping control of the puck happens very very rarely, but can be pulled off in the game often. The same goes for some of the other moves in the game. Anyway the main part is EA just needs to limit the stick handling reach of the players and also make a cutoff where Superstar players have the ability to pull off every move, where a guy like Kyle Clifford can only stick handle back and forth and the rest of the moves are disabled for him.

I think EA should really pay attention to game one last night. It had everything that needs to be replicated in the game. Example one, Doughty's move. That's a realistic move that NHL players pull off. The puck between the legs is rare that players pull it off, but it's a move that is very commonly used by the top players. Next is Clifford's goal. That's the definition of a grinder goal. Just crashing the net. EA has Pouliot and Hagelin type goals in the game already, but they need to differentiate that speed between players who can do it. In the game basically everyone can do it, but really it should be the guys with the best speed. We saw Hagelin all night blow past guys. He should be one of the few players in the game that can do that, but in the right situations. I'm not saying the devs don't watch the sport, but they can learn a lot by just sitting down and watching the game and seeing what things happen often and what things happen extremely rarely.

What I'm trying to say is look at the things EA has added the past few years. One year there were two goalie fights so EA says let's add that. Another year they add the jumping over bodies move because I think Stamkos or Datsyuk pulled it off once that year. There's probably two or three goalie fights a year and the jumping move has happened probably a handful of times in the history of the NHL. It's fine they add these things, but they need to do it after they add in the most commonly seen things.

[brandon27]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

Sounds promising, except for Mike Emerick. I tend to avoid watching games on NBC because of him, shame I'm going to have to only hear him while playing Oh well, if that's my only worry with this game, then I'm sure I'll live lol

Really excited to upgrade myself to next gen now with the upcoming sports titles this year.

[SpectralThundr]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

So I was just thinking about this as I ate my breakfast, since they're using NBC's presentation package, does this mean that instead of having highlights of the goals scored they instead rush to the next face off at center ice and totally skip showing any sort of replay on penalty calls? Because that would be pretty realistic considering how terrible NBC is at both of those things. Maybe they could have Edzo ramble on about the Blackhawks or Sidney Crosby when neither team is even playing for super realism.

[Splitter77]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

if the player ratings ranged from 1-100 like the old genesis games intead of like 65-100 or whatever it is they have, the game would be so much better.

i think players like shawn thornton are ranked like 70 in this game. thats nuts.
Thornton should be ranked around the 10-20 range, just as an example.

someone like john scott should be ranked in the 1-5 range.

[SpectralThundr]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

if the player ratings ranged from 1-100 like the old genesis games intead of like 65-100 or whatever it is they have, the game would be so much better.

i think players like shawn thornton are ranked like 70 in this game. thats nuts.
Thornton should be ranked around the 10-20 range, just as an example.

someone like john scott should be ranked in the 1-5 range.

Shawn Thorton is actually better than being a 4th liner would tell you. I get what you're saying but find a better example.

[Splitter77]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

Shawn Thorton is actually better than being a 4th liner would tell you. I get what you're saying but find a better example.

hes a fourth liner.
He's a bottom 20% player in the nhl.
ranking him as 20 would not be unheard of.

i should not be able to score more than 10 goals a season with thornton if i play all 82 games. As it stands right now, I could probably lead the league in scoring with him if i wanted to.

someone like paille or campbell play on his line.
I could see ranking paile at around 50 and campbell 40-45.

just gives better separation.

[SpectralThundr]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

hes a fourth liner.
He's a bottom 20% player in the nhl.
ranking him as 20 would not be unheard of.

i should not be able to score more than 10 goals a season with thornton if i play all 82 games. As it stands right now, I could probably lead the league in scoring with him if i wanted to.

someone like paille or campbell play on his line.
I could see ranking paile at around 50 and campbell 40-45.

just gives better separation.

So do you want players authentically attributed, or do you want a narrow wall limit based on what line they play on? Because it seems like you're looking for the latter. X player can't be higher than a 30 because he's a 4th liner. Arguably the Bruins have the best 4th line in hockey. But because they're 4th liners you're saying they should be ranked the same as any other 4th liner or non skilled player like a John Scott for example.

[Splitter77]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

So do you want players authentically attributed, or do you want a narrow wall limit based on what line they play on? Because it seems like you're looking for the latter. X player can't be higher than a 30 because he's a 4th liner. Arguably the Bruins have the best 4th line in hockey. But because they're 4th liners you're saying they should be ranked the same as any other 4th liner or non skilled player like a John Scott for example.

i just want authentic attributes rated 1-100 like it was back in the nhl series on sega genesis.
best player in the nhl should be 100, the worst should be 1. Then you figure out where everyone fits in from there.

[Comp]

Re: How NHL 15 Will Capture the Look and Feel of Hockey with NBC Sports Broadcast Pac

The bits of commentary in the trailer were actually good. A lot better than the current commentary for sure.