A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

[The 24th Letter]

This kid Sydney Crosby....is he the LeBron James of hockey? do people compare him to Gretzkey (its the consensus hes the greatest ever right?) like they do James to Jordon? I seem to hear about him alot, just wondering....

[SPTO]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

It's Sidney...

When he was first drafted and even before then he was being compared to Gretzky but this seems to happen with a lot of young kids who are way above their peers before entering the league and having amazing goal/assists totals. (It's happening with John Tavares right now)

Unfortunately for Bettman and his cronies Crosby hasn't really lived up to the lofty heights that everyone predicted. He's still a franchise player but he doesn't transcend the game really. He's already been surpassed by Alex Ovechkin in a lot of peoples' eyes. In fact, if Ovechkin could speak fluent english he'd be the face of the league without question. There's even some people that think Crosby has been overshadowed by his own teammate Malkin.

[DrJones]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

It's Sidney...

When he was first drafted and even before then he was being compared to Gretzky but this seems to happen with a lot of young kids who are way above their peers before entering the league and having amazing goal/assists totals. (It's happening with John Tavares right now)

Unfortunately for Bettman and his cronies Crosby hasn't really lived up to the lofty heights that everyone predicted. He's still a franchise player but he doesn't transcend the game really. He's already been surpassed by Alex Ovechkin in a lot of peoples' eyes. In fact, if Ovechkin could speak fluent english he'd be the face of the league without question. There's even some people that think Crosby has been overshadowed by his own teammate Malkin.

That seems a bit harsh. Youngest 100-point player and scoring champion ever. 2nd youngest MVP ever. Youngest captain to ever reach the Stanley Cup Final. His resume and impact before reaching the age of 21 is more impressive than anyone in the history of the sport not named Gretzky.

[mgoblue]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

That seems a bit harsh. Youngest 100-point player and scoring champion ever. 2nd youngest MVP ever. Youngest captain to ever reach the Stanley Cup Final. His resume and impact before reaching the age of 21 is more impressive than anyone in the history of the sport not named Gretzky.

I personally don't think it's fair to compare anyone to Gretzky's numbers...The NHL has changed and I don't think it's humanly possible to hit those numbers in this era, you know?

[The 24th Letter]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

I personally don't think it's fair to compare anyone to Gretzky's numbers...The NHL has changed and I don't think it's humanly possible to hit those numbers in this era, you know?

really?

and again this may be a dumb statement....

but i though they made it so scoring has increased?

[mercalnd]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

really?

and again this may be a dumb statement....

but i though they made it so scoring has increased?

SCoring has increased from what's known as the deadpuck era when there was a lot of clutching and grabbing. That era started around the mid 90s. Gretzky put up most of his numbers in the 80s, which could probably be best described as the pre-defensive systems era. Watching games from that time it's amazing how disorganised teams were on D so the scoring was much higher back then.

[mgoblue]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

really?

and again this may be a dumb statement....

but i though they made it so scoring has increased?

Ovechkin had 112 points this year (lead the NHL). Gretzky's record is 215 in a season...I just think he was at a completely different level and the league was a bit different too. Dr. Jones or other more knowledgeable hockey fans can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just not convinced anyone can hit those numbers...

[DrJones]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

Ovechkin had 112 points this year (lead the NHL). Gretzky's record is 215 in a season...I just think he was at a completely different level and the league was a bit different too. Dr. Jones or other more knowledgeable hockey fans can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just not convinced anyone can hit those numbers...

There's no question that Gretzky's numbers would drop today. Putting up 160-170 points today would be comparable to 200 in the 80's IMO. I think that Ovechkin's 65/47/112 would translate to about 80/65/145 in the 1979-1994 era, give or take. Crosby would be putting up 50/95/145 or so. In other words, I wouldn't put them at Gretzky's or Lemieux's level, but higher than Yzerman/Stastny/Sakic/Jagr/Selanne, etc. Barring injury, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Crosby and Ovechkin are ranked among the top-5 forwards of all-time (speaking in terms of pure offence, anyway), with Malkin a good bet to be top-10/15.

In other words, it's an exciting time to be an NHL fan.

Some trivia for you. How many players have scored more than 155 points in a season?

Answer: Two. Gretzky (9 times) and Lemieux (4 times).

[mercalnd]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

Ovechkin had 112 points this year (lead the NHL). Gretzky's record is 215 in a season...I just think he was at a completely different level and the league was a bit different too. Dr. Jones or other more knowledgeable hockey fans can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just not convinced anyone can hit those numbers...

You're right that no one will hit those kinds of numbers anymore because teams actually play defense nowadays. And goaltending has also evolved immensely since Gretzky put up 215 points. Even if they do move forward and reduce the goalie equipment, goalies will still nbe much better than they were in those days. Back then goalies stayed on their feet pretty much at all times.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

You have to be out of your mind to say Crosby hasn't lived up to the hype. Look at where the Penguins were before they drafted him and look at the franchise now. It's day and night. You could argue he isn't the best player in the league but he's a franchise player and I'll bet my life savings he will be a first ballot HoF'er. It's pretty damm impressive to see what he has accomplished before the age of 21.

He's also the only player in the league that gets attention from the non-sports media i.e. appearing on Leno, being in GQ magazine, etc...

[CoRruPt-]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

'Course Crosby had a huge part in turning around the Pens, but it doesn't hurt that he has a supporting cast of MAF, Staal, Malkin, etc..

[slickdtc]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

Crosby is kind of like LeBron James. It's arguable he's the best player in the game (Kobe Bryant may be better then James now), but he's marketed so heavily that to the casual observer, such as The 24th Letter, he IS the next one. He's a Top 5 player in the league, for sure, but he's marketed as a definitive Top 1 player.

[SPTO]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

DrJones I guess that did come off as a bit harsh but Sid the Kid is choved down our throats here in Canada as you well know and it irks me a bit when I feel that Ovechkin is miles better. Crosby is the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league but I think a lot of it is bolstered by the fact that he has some very good talent surrounding him.

Ovechkin on the other hand has put up his numbers with mostly crap around him (except for this past season) and he's truly a human highlight reel. When all is said and done he might break the record for most goals in a season IMO.

[DrJones]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

DrJones I guess that did come off as a bit harsh but Sid the Kid is choved down our throats here in Canada as you well know and it irks me a bit when I feel that Ovechkin is miles better. Crosby is the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league but I think a lot of it is bolstered by the fact that he has some very good talent surrounding him.

Ovechkin on the other hand has put up his numbers with mostly crap around him (except for this past season) and he's truly a human highlight reel. When all is said and done he might break the record for most goals in a season IMO.

Ovechkin is miles better? Please. More likeable? Sure. More exciting? Absolutely. What "very good talent" was surrounding Crosby when he put up 102 points as a rookie (doubling the point total of the next-highest Penguin forward)? He rarely plays with Malkin except on the PP, and he's only played with Hossa for about 20-30 games, so the "surrounded by talent" thing is overrated. The dude's TWENTY. It's okay to hate him and his bootlickers in the Toronto media (hell, I hated Gretzky every time he was wearing something other than a red maple leaf on his chest), but don't let that cloud your judgment. He's the real deal. Nothing against Ovechkin, I think he should be given more press in Canada as well. Most likely they're both destined to be among the top-10 players of all-time, possibly top-5.

[ohyeahbaby123]

Re: A question from a Pro Hockey idiot......

Ovechkin is miles better? Please. More likeable? Sure. More exciting? Absolutely. What "very good talent" was surrounding Crosby when he put up 102 points as a rookie (doubling the point total of the next-highest Penguin forward)? He rarely plays with Malkin except on the PP, and he's only played with Hossa for about 20-30 games, so the "surrounded by talent" thing is overrated. The dude's TWENTY. It's okay to hate him and his bootlickers in the Toronto media (hell, I hated Gretzky every time he was wearing something other than a red maple leaf on his chest), but don't let that cloud your judgment. He's the real deal. Nothing against Ovechkin, I think he should be given more press in Canada as well. Most likely they're both destined to be among the top-10 players of all-time, possibly top-5.

Good post. I think people expect Crosby to score 60 goals a year, but that's not who he is. Ovechkin and Crosby are both unbelievable players, but fans tend to flock towards Ovechkin more because he (obviously) scores more goals.